GWR Brighton services axed from May timetable change

[swt_passenger]

first time of trying this forum and am confused as how to enter a comment, so if this is in the wrong place perhaps someone can take me by the hand and lead me through it. My wife and I travel Chichester to Worcester (either station) to visit her mother and have always found the GWR 0946 service from Chichester the most convenient service. On our most recent trip we picked up a leaflet on the train urging travellers to write to their MPs to stop the withdrawal of this service. Whenever we have travelled the 2 or 3 carriages making up the service have been fairly full, and at times standing room only.
As you might have gathered I am not in favour of this proposal to with draw the service particularly as the alternative involves 3 changes which is not easy as a 70+ year old.

Welcome. Unfortunately by the time leaflets were being printed and people encouraged to complain the decision had already been made.

 

[route101]

Given the astonished looks when a gwr 158 pulls into Chichester etc it seems many are clueless the service exists (existed)

Only non 3rd rail service along that stretch.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Only non 3rd rail service along that stretch.

The Chichester/Mendips train also uses diesels not 3rd rail.

 

[hornbyfan99]

I used the GWR service yesterday from Great Malvern all the way to Brighton. Lightly loaded from Great Malvern as far as Gloucester then it got fairly busy all the way to Brighton. Not the most comfortable experience on a 166 all that way but it's manageable in the former 1st class seating area!

From speaking to the guard, they said there were a lot of through ticket holders travelling all the way to Brighton and beyond. When we arrived at Brighton, there were a lot of elderly passengers with heavy luggage as well as many wheelchair users requiring assistance.

It's a shame to see this service go, but I suppose on any given day when there's no through train you'd have to change at Southampton etc just that the connections aren't that good. These days, it feels like everyone has to use Thameslink and go through London instead

The end of an era I suppose, Brighton loosing it's last long distance service linking the West Country and beyond...

 

[WesternLancer]

I used the GWR service yesterday from Great Malvern all the way to Brighton. Lightly loaded from Great Malvern as far as Gloucester then it got fairly busy all the way to Brighton. Not the most comfortable experience on a 166 all that way but it's manageable in the former 1st class seating area!

From speaking to the guard, they said there were a lot of through ticket holders travelling all the way to Brighton and beyond. When we arrived at Brighton, there were a lot of elderly passengers with heavy luggage as well as many wheelchair users requiring assistance.

It's a shame to see this service go, but I suppose on any given day when there's no through train you'd have to change at Southampton etc just that the connections aren't that good. These days, it feels like everyone has to use Thameslink and go through London instead

The end of an era I suppose, Brighton loosing it's last long distance service linking the West Country and beyond...

Interesting - yes very much the end of an era. Nice to hear a report from a long distance user prior the end - thanks for posting!

 

[Kite159]

I used the GWR service yesterday from Great Malvern all the way to Brighton. Lightly loaded from Great Malvern as far as Gloucester then it got fairly busy all the way to Brighton. Not the most comfortable experience on a 166 all that way but it's manageable in the former 1st class seating area!

From speaking to the guard, they said there were a lot of through ticket holders travelling all the way to Brighton and beyond. When we arrived at Brighton, there were a lot of elderly passengers with heavy luggage as well as many wheelchair users requiring assistance.

It's a shame to see this service go, but I suppose on any given day when there's no through train you'd have to change at Southampton etc just that the connections aren't that good. These days, it feels like everyone has to use Thameslink and go through London instead

The end of an era I suppose, Brighton loosing it's last long distance service linking the West Country and beyond...

From memory the connection is better at Fratton from the Brighton - Portsmouth & Portsmouth - Cardiff when they both run. Although it would be easier to stay on to Portsmouth & Southsea if the Southern service is going to Harbour as it's across the island platform rather than stairs/lift at Fratton (or Southampton).

At least the green party will be happy the last regular diesel train is gone from Brighton

 

[WesternLancer]

At least the green party will be happy the last regular diesel train is gone from Brighton

But less so if they need to go to that other capital of green-ness, Bristol - without a change....

 

[pompeyfan]

From memory the connection is better at Fratton from the Brighton - Portsmouth & Portsmouth - Cardiff when they both run. Although it would be easier to stay on to Portsmouth & Southsea if the Southern service is going to Harbour as it's across the island platform rather than stairs/lift at Fratton (or Southampton).

At least the green party will be happy the last regular diesel train is gone from Brighton

Heading east wouldn’t you change at Fareham? Same platform with a 25 minute wait, heading west would probably be Fratton though as it’s a 15 minute wait as apposed 35 minutes at Fareham.

Either way, connectivity makes it easier for passengers, even if it removes duplication. Sometimes I think you need to sacrifice efficiency for passenger convenience, otherwise all these Leisure passengers the DfT are begging for, won’t bother and will choose N/X or fly if the price is right, or they’ll take their own car.

 

[hornbyfan99]

It used to be in good old paper timetables that any connecting service to destinations would be highlighted in Italics. So I'd like to think that the connections between Bristol- South Coast and V.V will be promoted even if it's just with onboard announcements.

 

[evergreenadam]

Given the astonished looks when a gwr 158 pulls into Chichester etc it seems many are clueless the service exists (existed)

Only ever saw it once at Chichester heading towards Brighton on a school day late afternoon. Carried a big load of students but the narrow doors on the 158 made for slow boarding.

 

[hornbyfan99]

I have a feeling that this is only the start of things to come. SWR Bristol services gone, the single EMR return token service to Leeds is going as well.

It does get me that LNER recently introduced a token service to Middlesbrough which you could say is a 'duplication' of TPEs York-Middlesbrough service yet services such as the GWR Brighton trains have facing the axe. One could say the same about their Inverness and extensions from Leeds etc again 'duplications' of local services, could they be at risk as well?

 

[Parallel]

I have a feeling that this is only the start of things to come. SWR Bristol services gone, the single EMR return token service to Leeds is going as well.

It does get me that LNER recently introduced a token service to Middlesbrough which you could say is a 'duplication' of TPEs York-Middlesbrough service yet services such as the GWR Brighton trains have facing the axe. One could say the same about their Inverness and extensions from Leeds etc again 'duplications' of local services, could they be at risk as well?

I doubt it, because they go to the magical destination of London (which is apparently where everyone in the UK wants to travel to). I also imagine some of these newer one-off services are implemented either to please local stakeholders or to stop open access operators developing and taking some of the revenue. Didn't Avanti only start serving Blackpool following Grand Central also wanting to run there? If LNER pulled out from Inverness, not only would it probably anger half of Scotland, but would be an opportunity for an OA.

I was speaking to a member of train crew a while ago who was saying apparently GWR were looking at running more services to Brighton, but GTR weren't happy about it. That may be just speculation though.

 

[swt_passenger]

I doubt it, because they go to the magical destination of London (which is apparently where everyone in the UK wants to travel to). I also imagine some of these newer one-off services are implemented either to please local stakeholders or to stop open access operators developing and taking some of the revenue. Didn't Avanti only start serving Blackpool following Grand Central also wanting to run there? If LNER pulled out from Inverness, not only would it probably anger half of Scotland, but would be an opportunity for an OA.

I was speaking to a member of train crew a while ago who was saying apparently GWR were looking at running more services to Brighton, but GTR weren't happy about it. That may be just speculation though.

The Middlesbrough service is supposed to eventually be 2 hourly, it’s been in the various ECML TOC track access plans since 2016, I think it’s potentially a far more important service than the original subject of this thread.

 

[JonathanH]

I was speaking to a member of train crew a while ago who was saying apparently GWR were looking at running more services to Brighton, but GTR weren't happy about it. That may be just speculation though.

The GWR services to Brighton forced the usual GTR services to have sub-optimal paths to accommodate them relative to the standard hour so it would seem unlikely that GTR (and Network Rail) would be particularly keen on more GWR services to Brighton even if stock was available.

 

[Bald Rick]

If LNER pulled out from Inverness, not only would it probably anger half of Scotland, but would be an opportunity for an OA.

No chance of an OA operator wanting to run to Inverness.

 

[JonathanH]

No chance of an OA operator wanting to run to Inverness.

Equally there is no chance of an open access operator running long distance services to the west (east or north) from Brighton.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Travelled on the Great Malvern to Brighton service today, which I was already disappointed was downgraded to a 158 vice a 158. Not only were the plug sockets not working, the WiFi wasn't working either. Diverted between Southampton and Fareham via Eastleigh, and was only fifteen minutes late by this point, but we must have lost our path along the West Coast way as we got into Brighton 31 minutes late (the latter of course not GWR's fault, but still the icing on top of the cake).

Dreading the return journey, tempted to just go via Victoria and Paddington to be honest!

 

[hornbyfan99]

Dreading the return journey, tempted to just go via Victoria and Paddington to be honest!

Could have gone via Gatwick/Redhill- Reading on the way back...

 

[Michaeco]

This is very disappointing personally, as I used to travel from Chichester to Cardiff to see my son and his family, living in Pontypridd. It is also disappointing, in that there was a groundswell pre-Covid for an hourly service from Brighton to Bristol. There have of course been plans to extend the Southern services to Southampton on to Totton, so that they did not block the platforms at Southampton Central. I suspect all this is part of managed decline, as I remember the then DfT being reported some time ago as saying that, if you provided a decent service that people wanted to use at a reasonable price, the railway would be overwhelmed!

 

[plugwash]

Didn't Avanti only start serving Blackpool following Grand Central also wanting to run there?

Not sure.

I recall pre-electrification Virgin west coast had one train per day to Blackpool and this was increased substantially after the electrification was completed. I don't know whether the one train per day predates the open access proposals or not though.

Pretty sure this all happened before Avanti took over.

 

[David Dunning]

Came into Brighton from Fareham on this yesterday. I think judging from loadings it’s a great loss. I captured departure for history. Although not the last one yet of course.

 

[WesternLancer]

Came into Brighton from Fareham on this yesterday. I think judging from loadings it’s a great loss. I captured departure for history. Although not the last one yet of course.

Thanks for posting that. Nice to see. Indeed a sad loss.

 

[Snow1964]

Came into Brighton from Fareham on this yesterday. I think judging from loadings it’s a great loss. I captured departure for history. Although not the last one yet of course.

It is a great loss, and withdrawal doesn’t suddenly fix GWR shortage of units, (just makes minor dent into the shortage) doesn’t really benefit anyone, including the 100s of people who take it to avoid changing trains due to luggage or age.

 

[dastocks]

It is a great loss, and withdrawal doesn’t suddenly fix GWR shortage of units, (just makes minor dent into the shortage) doesn’t really benefit anyone, including the 100s of people who take it to avoid changing trains due to luggage or age.

On the other hand, travelling via London will become a *lot* easier in a couple of week's time, with same/cross-platform or step-free changes all the way, and rather more than 2 or 3 services per day. But not on Sundays.

 

[ValleyLines142]

Could have gone via Gatwick/Redhill- Reading on the way back...

Connections weren't great pre-COVID; can't imagine what they're like now.

 

[387star]

This is very disappointing personally, as I used to travel from Chichester to Cardiff to see my son and his family, living in Pontypridd. It is also disappointing, in that there was a groundswell pre-Covid for an hourly service from Brighton to Bristol. There have of course been plans to extend the Southern services to Southampton on to Totton, so that they did not block the platforms at Southampton Central. I suspect all this is part of managed decline, as I remember the then DfT being reported some time ago as saying that, if you provided a decent service that people wanted to use at a reasonable price, the railway would be overwhelmed!

Ironically fratton depot has never had so many Drivers and Guards

 

[Snow1964]

On the other hand, travelling via London will become a *lot* easier in a couple of week's time, with same/cross-platform or step-free changes all the way, and rather more than 2 or 3 services per day. But not on Sundays.

Withdrawal of the GWR Brighton services seems to have disadvantages to me, as an example
Next Tuesday Bath - Hove
13:00 direct arrives 16:10 showing as £59.80 adult single
13:13 via London arrives 16:53 £79.40 adult single

takes longer via London and costs more, and got to make 2 changes with long walks, lot of disadvantages for gain of more trains per day

 

[dastocks]

Withdrawal of the GWR Brighton services seems to have disadvantages to me, as an example
Next Tuesday Bath - Hove
13:00 direct arrives 16:10 showing as £59.80 adult single
13:13 via London arrives 16:53 £79.40 adult single

takes longer via London and costs more, and got to make 2 changes with long walks, lot of disadvantages for gain of more trains per day

That's (partly) because you're a week earlier than I specified and the journey planners haven't been updated to take account of the Elizabeth line: I just tried Bath to Farringdon on a weekday in June on the NR planner and it still tells you to head for the Circle/H&C. I don't know exactly what the changes at Paddington and Farringdon will be like but they should both be much better than the mainline to Underground changes at Paddington and Victoria, at least if you keep to the west end of the Elizabeth line train and the south end of the Thameslink train at Farringdon.

Changing between Thameslink and Southern is the same platform at East Croydon or if (like me) Brighton and Hove stations are equally inconvenient you could just stay on Thameslink to Brighton instead of going to Hove.

What would you do if you wanted to arrive in Sussex in time for lunch?

 

[30907]

Withdrawal of the GWR Brighton services seems to have disadvantages to me, as an example
Next Tuesday Bath - Hove
13:00 direct arrives 16:10 showing as £59.80 adult single
13:13 via London arrives 16:53 £79.40 adult single

takes longer via London and costs more, and got to make 2 changes with long walks, lot of disadvantages for gain of more trains per day

Whereas you can do the journey every hour all day via Salisbury in 3h40 (return 3h30) with one simple change and using electric traction for a chunk of it.

 

[Parallel]

Does anyone know the reason as to the 10:41 Malvern - Brighton service was cancelled early at Worthing today? It was 14 minutes late leaving Malvern, never really made up time then arrived into Worthing 25 minutes late. Looks like it got delayed between Worcester and Malvern Link on its previous journey from Warminster for some reason.