GWR Class 800

[NotATrainspott]

As coach's with engines have a raised floor presumably the shells haven't been built yet.
K

All intermediate vehicles, with or without underfloor engines, have raised floors. There's little point having two separate bodyshell designs when a nominally electric-only unit will have one carriage with a diesel engine underneath.

 

[Domh245]

As coach's with engines have a raised floor presumably the shells haven't been built yet.
K

Coaches are a standard design. The 801s have raised floors in trailing coaches, as per other 800s and 802s.

Edit: Beaten to it!

 

[phoenixcronin]

So will the floor in the driving cars be lower than the intermediate cars? Very odd. If so why not raise the floor in the driving vehicles to provide consistency, even if there is no functional need.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

When are they due to start testing on the GWML in diesel mode (would they need special possesions to do so?)?

 

[leomartin125]

When are they due to start testing on the GWML in diesel mode (would they need special possesions to do so?)?

I didn't think they were due to test the IEP's in diesel mode, that's all been completed on the ECML earlier this year for the IEP's that have already been produced. It's electric mode that they are testing, hence the test track between Reading and Didcot, and that supposedly, starts in September 2016.

 

[47802]

So will the floor in the driving cars be lower than the intermediate cars? Very odd. If so why not raise the floor in the driving vehicles to provide consistency, even if there is no functional need.

Why is it odd, the Driving cars are a substantially different design, they will have to accommodate a pantograph on the roof and essentially accommodate the electric part of the train, they are not designed for an engine underneath, will also accommodate wheel chairs so there is no reason to, or would it be desirable to have a raised floor in the Driving cars.

But lets also remember this raised floor on the other carriages is only slight over the distance of the carriage and should hardly be noticeable, but then of course its an another excuse by some to bash a feature that might be slightly different from previous trains.

 

[phoenixcronin]

Why is it odd, the Driving cars are a substantially different design, they will have to accommodate a pantograph on the roof and essentially accommodate the electric part of the train, they are not designed for an engine underneath, will also accommodate wheel chairs so there is no reason to, or would it be desirable to have a raised floor in the Driving cars.

But lets also remember this raised floor on the other carriages is only slight over the distance of the carriage and should hardly be noticeable, but then of course its an another excuse by some to bash a feature that might be slightly different from previous trains.

I'm certainly not looking to bash the trains, i just found it odd. Perhaps its because I imagined the difference in height would be somewhat substantial, but if as you say the difference is minimal fair enough.

 

[Dent]

I'm certainly not looking to bash the trains, i just found it odd. Perhaps its because I imagined the difference in height would be somewhat substantial, but if as you say the difference is minimal fair enough.

If the whole floor was lower in some carriages and required additional steps because of this then it would be odd, but I don't really see anything odd about not having a raised section in the middle of carriages where there is no reason for one.

If the driving carriages are going to have lowered ceiling sections to accommodate the pantograph wells then that is a further reason not to have a pointless humped floor that would reduce headroom even more for no reason.

 

[phoenixcronin]

If the whole floor was lower in some carriages and required additional steps because of this then it would be odd, but I don't really see anything odd about not having a raised section in the middle of carriages where there is no reason for one.

If the driving carriages are going to have lowered ceiling sections to accommodate the pantograph wells then that is a further reason not to have a pointless humped floor that would reduce headroom even more for no reason.

Ah ok I thought that the entire floor would be higher in the intermediate cars, not just a hump section. Makes perfect sense now thanks

 

[najaB]

If the driving carriages are going to have lowered ceiling sections to accommodate the pantograph wells then that is a further reason not to have a pointless humped floor that would reduce headroom even more for no reason.

The difference in ceiling height between Class 390 carriages that have a pantograph is quite noticeable. I can (just) get my carry-on case into the overhead racks in the 'normal' carriages, whereas you would be lucky to get more than a sheet of paper into the ones where the pantograph goes.

 

[Rich McLean]

With the amount of padding most paths have on the GWML at present, 110mph should be no issue whatsoever unless there is disruption meaning less top end speed to make up time. It will just mean delaying a full timetable change until all remaining sections with a line speed above 110mph are complete

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I didn't think they were due to test the IEP's in diesel mode, that's all been completed on the ECML earlier this year for the IEP's that have already been produced. It's electric mode that they are testing, hence the test track between Reading and Didcot, and that supposedly, starts in September 2016.

While the focus is on testing under Series 1 OHLE, there are tests they can do under diesel, including ATP operation.
It's the same traction equipment in either mode, so the basic signalling immunisation can be tested in diesel mode.
ECML testing will not have included ATP or the new signalling on the GW route.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

While the focus is on testing under Series 1 OHLE, there are tests they can do under diesel, including ATP operation.
It's the same traction equipment in either mode, so the basic signalling immunisation can be tested in diesel mode.
ECML testing will not have included ATP or the new signalling on the GW route.

There's at speed transition from electric to diesel, and vice versa to deal with too. There's lots of data we want on the behaviour of train and OLE which will need diesel running at some point, and as you say, S&T will want to know diesel operation doesn't upset the signalling, given there's ATP and ERTMS is coming. Hitachi and others will also want to know if IEP is going to upset or be upset by things like Class 332 and Class 360 units, or the SWT DC units at Reading.

 

[RobShipway]

There's at speed transition from electric to diesel, and vice versa to deal with too. There's lots of data we want on the behaviour of train and OLE which will need diesel running at some point, and as you say, S&T will want to know diesel operation doesn't upset the signalling, given there's ATP and ERTMS is coming. Hitachi and others will also want to know if IEP is going to upset or be upset by things like Class 332 and Class 360 units, or the SWT DC units at Reading.

Could it also get upset by the HST trains rattling past on diesel power at 125mph, as it will have that plus the class 345 trains in the future to deal with?

 

[MarkyT]

Signalling immunity is mostly concerned with return current effects, something that won't be there at all under diesel operation. There might be new transition effects like transformer inrush at places where trains will change mode at speed however where that wasn't planned originally. Most modern signalling today uses axle counters rather than track circuits for train detection. Unlike track circuits, axle counters share no electrical commonality with the traction return path so they are fundamentally much less susceptible to the effects of traction currents, their harmonics etc, both under normal and many fault scenarios.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

They could still be tested in diesel mode under a special possession to check for clearances for anything they could foul on. Would to date an HST coach be the longest item of rolling stock to have traveled along the GWML?

 

[swt_passenger]

IEP has already run between Paddington and Bristol Parkway, in normal traffic hours as far as reports and videos suggest.

 

[RAGNARØKR]

They could still be tested in diesel mode under a special possession to check for clearances for anything they could foul on. Would to date an HST coach be the longest item of rolling stock to have traveled along the GWML?

Length in itself is not an issue. What matters is the distance between bogie centres and between the bogie centres and the ends of the vehicle - though of course they are related to the overall length.

It is an interesting question because the GWR introduced 70 foot long coaches in 1904. These were 53ft 6 inches between bogie centres ie 16.3 metres, thus slightly more than the 16 metre bogie centres of the 23 metre mark 3 stock. They would have had more overthrow on curves - it is proportional to the square of the distance.

It reverted to the standard 57 foot length with the Toplight stock which first came into service in 1907.

The 800 series are nominally 1 cm wider than mark 3; as far as I am aware, the bogie centres are 17 metres apart, which also means there is more overhang at the ends, hence the need for the tapering. This is not a new feature - 20 metre vehicles are slightly tapered - this was introduced with the class 313 stock which have "facetted" ends so that the outer corners are straight whereas the body sides are curved.

 

[leomartin125]

IEP has already run between Paddington and Bristol Parkway, in normal traffic hours as far as reports and videos suggest.

Now that I would personally like to query. I live on the GWML at Maidenhead and have RARELY seen any Class 800's pass through the station. Tested has not begun yet. As far as I know, a Class 800 is at Stoke Gifford for commissioning work and the rest are up at Old Dalby and Newton Aycliffe.

 

[2030720310]

Now that I would personally like to query. I live on the GWML at Maidenhead and have RARELY seen any Class 800's pass through the station. Tested has not begun yet. As far as I know, a Class 800 is at Stoke Gifford for commissioning work and the rest are up at Old Dalby and Newton Aycliffe.

There are numerous Youtube videos of 800s on test on the GWML. I would post a link but I don't want to fall foul of copying other people's videos! I typed in "Class 800 testing" on Youtube and found a few however.

 

[swt_passenger]

Now that I would personally like to query. I live on the GWML at Maidenhead and have RARELY seen any Class 800's pass through the station. Tested has not begun yet. As far as I know, a Class 800 is at Stoke Gifford for commissioning work and the rest are up at Old Dalby and Newton Aycliffe.

I didn't say testing had begun. I simply reported in reply to a previous post that IEPs had already run. How did you think they got from North Pole to Stoke Gifford?

 

[ainsworth74]

There are numerous Youtube videos of 800s on test on the GWML. I would post a link but I don't want to fall foul of copying other people's videos! I typed in "Class 800 testing" on Youtube and found a few however.

As long as your not claiming the video as you own and give credit (i.e. 'I found this video taken by *youtube username*') then it's fine to link to videos.

 

[2030720310]

As long as your not claiming the video as you own and give credit (i.e. 'I found this video taken by *youtube username*') then it's fine to link to videos.

OK thanks for clarifying!

 

[RobShipway]

OK thanks for clarifying!

For Instance I have found this video by Kris Nelson of a class 800 passing through Slough station:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyeRVyP_2tc

Or this video by Leo Martin with a Class 800 departing Southall:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw5bJV4g4yk

 

[leomartin125]

For Instance I have found this video by Kris Nelson of a class 800 passing through Slough station:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyeRVyP_2tc

Or this video by Leo Martin with a Class 800 departing Southall:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw5bJV4g4yk

Yep, the bottom one is mine. Caught a while back now on a standard move from North Pole to Old Dalby. The above move was the initial move from North Pole IEP Depot to Stoke Gifford, where that train remains to this day. To clarify, NONE of these videos are examples of IEP testing, they are examples of IEP moves and reolcations.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Just a quick update, it seems that the GWR Class 800, reported as 800002 that visited Stoke Gifford for comissioning work, has returned to Old Dalby for Mainline testing. Maybe they will send another IEP down to Stoke Gifford, maybe not, or maybe one back down to North Pole again, it's all just guess work as it's kept 'above my paygrade'.

Anyone wanting to capture it, you would have to be pretty desperate! Here is the RTT routing it takes from Bristol to Old Dalby:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K97219/2016/06/10/advanced

It seems to head down the Great Western Mainline to Swindon, and follow all the way to Acton Mainline and Acton Wells Junction (usually using the fast lines between Reading and Acton as the slows are closed for Crossrail work during nights) where it heads on the North London Line up to Copenhagen Junction for the ECML, and then heads up to Peterborough on the slow lines, as by this point it's 7am and is dealing with Friday morning rush hour traffic on the ECML and at Peterborough heads to Old Dalby via its entrance at Melton Mowbray for around 10:39am.

Will do this in reverse if another is sent down to Stoke Gifford for further comissioning work (Which I see as likely, many visited North Pole for comissioning work).

 

[valentaman]

800002 now at asfordby again

 

[BananaRepublic]

Yep, the bottom one is mine. Caught a while back now on a standard move from North Pole to Old Dalby.
The above move was the initial move from North Pole IEP Depot to Stoke Gifford, where that train remains to this day.
To clarify, NONE of these videos are examples of IEP testing, they are examples of IEP moves and relocations............

There have been other runs too, e.g. OOC to Reading and return, but what purpose these served I've no idea.

For example, 9-car 800101 (the one in the Virgin Azuma special launch livery) seen at Reading....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uOKUV0dBAg



...and at Twyford the same night...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7lR5wfj54Q

 

[fgwrich]

There have been other runs too, e.g. OOC to Reading and return, but what purpose these served I've no idea.

For example, 9-car 800101 (the one in the Virgin Azuma special launch livery) seen at Reading....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uOKUV0dBAg



...and at Twyford the same night...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7lR5wfj54Q

I see they've picked up Adelante style break squealing already!

 

[leomartin125]

There have been other runs too, e.g. OOC to Reading and return, but what purpose these served I've no idea.

For example, 9-car 800101 (the one in the Virgin Azuma special launch livery) seen at Reading....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uOKUV0dBAg



...and at Twyford the same night...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7lR5wfj54Q

That was a test of the Class 800 nine car sets that GWR will now be ordering instead of nine car Class 801's, due to electrification delays. Although the only nine car Class 800's present at the moment are for Virgin Trains East Coast, this explains why a Virgin Train was testing on the GWML. It was to test the train, rather than advertise the operator for this purpose. If a GWR Class 800 nine car existed, I'm sure this would have been the preferred choice. Was a one off also, not easy to test on the GWML with the ongoing Crossrail engineering works and Electrification works overnight.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Would also like to add that recent late night test runs of the IEP between Old Dalby and Darlington have shown the unit more recently being tested with it's pantograph up, thus meaning testing in electric mode of the Class 800's has begun. Tonight, either 800001 or 800002 sped passed Thirsk with it's pantograph up, so testing of the electric power source of the sets is now underway.

Which I think is pointless for these units as the OHLE specification for the ECML is very different to that of the new Fuller + Frey Series 1 on the GWML, but at least it proves the units work I guess.

 

[D365]

... Which I think is pointless for these units as the OHLE specification for the ECML is very different to that of the new Fuller + Frey Series 1 on the GWML, but at least it proves the units work I guess.

So doesn't it count towards general ECML testing for the type?