GWR South-West England

[MythTrain]

Hi all,
Was just trying to find the tph for GWR, XC, and Freight services around the Penzance - Reading (via Westbury) area, and just generally, and was wondering if anyone has an updated list of their current services for the December 2024 timetable change detailing all the tphs (I have skimmed over some other threads and not really seen anything, but please do direct me to another thread if there is one )

It would be brilliant if someone could note the trains that usually run them, and the depot that they begin/end at and are based out of if anyone knows.

Thanks in advance (and sorry for so many questions)

~ Myth

 

[The exile]

Hi all,
Was just trying to find the tph for GWR, XC, and Freight services around the Penzance - Reading (via Westbury) area, and just generally, and was wondering if anyone has an updated list of their current services for the December 2024 timetable change detailing all the tphs (I have skimmed over some other threads and not really seen anything, but please do direct me to another thread if there is one )

It would be brilliant if someone could note the trains that usually run them, and the depot that they begin/end at and are based out of if anyone knows.

Thanks in advance (and sorry for so many questions)

~ Myth

If no-one has the answers to hand, a bit of research on Real Time Trains should enable you to work it out.

 

[MythTrain]

If no-one has the answers to hand, a bit of research on Real Time Trains should enable you to work it out.

Thanks!

 

[Western Sunset]

You won't get XC services via Westbury, unless on diversion.

 

[A S Leib]

For GWR services I think it's generally

• 1 tph Paddington – Plymouth / Penzance, nonstop between Reading and Taunton
• Approx. 1tp2h Paddington – Exeter St. Davids (/ Paignton / Plymouth) via Newbury, Hungerford, Pewsey, Westbury and Castle Cary (I think these two are 802s; I don't know if Class 800s are ever used for London – Exeter services)
• Approx. 1tp2h Swindon – Westbury via Melksham
• 1 tph Gloucester – Westbury (– Weymouth ~every other hour)
• 1 tph Cardiff Central – Portsmouth Harbour
• 1 tph Bristol Temple Meads – Westbury (hourly that far; 4 trains per day terminating) / Warminster (4 tpd) / Salisbury (5 tpd) / Frome (1 tpd) / Weymouth (1 tpd) for a total of 3 GWR tph between Bristol Temple Meads and Westbury

I think all of the non-London services are 158s, 165s or 166s.

No regular CrossCountry services at or through Westbury, but SWR has 2-4 tpd from London Waterloo and Yeovil Junction (I think Class 159s).

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Generally Class 802s on the GWR London-WoE route but 800s do regularly appear on out/back diagrams from the London end.

There is also the Cardiff-Taunton 1tph service of which most extend to Exeter/Plymouth/Penzance, using 800/5 units. These are the services which are almost entirely cut back to Exeter from the May timetable change with the Exeter-Penzance legs to be operated by Class 175s as they gradually appear in traffic. Along with a further 1tp2h Plymouth-Penzance, the combination of London, Cardiff (Exeter) and Plymouth services plus XC produces the 2tph Cornish timetable.

Also worth observing that a couple of the London-Exeter semi fasts extend to Paignton, and a further pair of early/late services reach Plymouth.

 

[A S Leib]

Are there currently any plans to re-extend the CrossCountry Manchester – Bristol services to Exeter as was the case in the December 2019(?) timetable, or is it going to stay as hourly Edinburgh – Plymouth using 220s / 221s with two per day to / from Penzance?

 

[MythTrain]

For GWR services I think it's generally

• 1 tph Paddington – Plymouth / Penzance, nonstop between Reading and Taunton
• Approx. 1tp2h Paddington – Exeter St. Davids (/ Paignton / Plymouth) via Newbury, Hungerford, Pewsey, Westbury and Castle Cary (I think these two are 802s; I don't know if Class 800s are ever used for London – Exeter services)
• Approx. 1tp2h Swindon – Westbury via Melksham
• 1 tph Gloucester – Westbury (– Weymouth ~every other hour)
• 1 tph Cardiff Central – Portsmouth Harbour
• 1 tph Bristol Temple Meads – Westbury (hourly that far; 4 trains per day terminating) / Warminster (4 tpd) / Salisbury (5 tpd) / Frome (1 tpd) / Weymouth (1 tpd) for a total of 3 GWR tph between Bristol Temple Meads and Westbury

I think all of the non-London services are 158s, 165s or 166s.

No regular CrossCountry services at or through Westbury, but SWR has 2-4 tpd from London Waterloo and Yeovil Junction (I think Class 159s).

Thanks! Recently I've been seeing a lot of GWR/XCs terminating at Paignton (from paddington/north - not 2Fxx & 2Txx) - would those just be the Exeter SFs extending more often?

Generally Class 802s on the GWR London-WoE route but 800s do regularly appear on out/back diagrams from the London end.

There is also the Cardiff-Taunton 1tph service of which most extend to Exeter/Plymouth/Penzance, using 800/5 units. These are the services which are almost entirely cut back to Exeter from the May timetable change with the Exeter-Penzance legs to be operated by Class 175s as they gradually appear in traffic. Along with a further 1tp2h Plymouth-Penzance, the combination of London, Cardiff (Exeter) and Plymouth services plus XC produces the 2tph Cornish timetable.

Also worth observing that a couple of the London-Exeter semi fasts extend to Paignton, and a further pair of early/late services reach Plymouth.

Thanks! Does that mean in future that there won't be anymore CC - Penzance/Taunton anymore after the May timetable change? (apologies if I misread that). Excuse my not knowing, but what does WoE stand for? Thanks again.

Are there currently any plans to re-extend the CrossCountry Manchester – Bristol services to Exeter as was the case in the December 2019(?) timetable, or is it going to stay as hourly Edinburgh – Plymouth using 220s / 221s with two per day to / from Penzance?

Oooo, that would be great. Hopefully - I'll do some digging on RTT

Are there currently any plans to re-extend the CrossCountry Manchester – Bristol services to Exeter as was the case in the December 2019(?) timetable, or is it going to stay as hourly Edinburgh – Plymouth using 220s / 221s with two per day to / from Penzance?

On 1/5/2025, looks like 2tpd extend to Paignton & return from Manchester.

 

[A S Leib]

There's currently six trains per day from Taunton or further north / east to Paignton; one CrossCountry starting from Bristol Temple Meads and two starting from Manchester Piccadilly, and three GWR from Paddington via Reading, Newbury (2 tpd), Pewsey (2 tpd), Westbury and Castle Cary (both 3 tpd). The first Paddington to Paignton's in the path normally used for Penzance / Plymouth services and the other two with normal Exeter semi-fast times from what I can tell.

 

[MythTrain]

There's currently six trains per day from Taunton or further north / east to Paignton; one CrossCountry starting from Bristol Temple Meads and two starting from Manchester Piccadilly, and three GWR from Paddington via Reading, Newbury (2 tpd), Pewsey (2 tpd), Westbury and Castle Cary (both 3 tpd). The first Paddington to Paignton's in the path normally used for Penzance / Plymouth services and the other two with normal Exeter semi-fast times from what I can tell.

Good to know, thanks.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Thanks! Recently I've been seeing a lot of GWR/XCs terminating at Paignton (from paddington/north - not 2Fxx & 2Txx) - would those just be the Exeter SFs extending more often?

i think @A S Leib has answered this one adequately

Thanks! Does that mean in future that there won't be anymore CC - Penzance/Taunton anymore after the May timetable change?

From the May timetable the hourly service from Cardiff will terminate at Exeter St Davids, with one or two minor exceptions. These shortened services will continue to be operated by 800/5 units.

The Exeter-Penzance elements will transfer over to 175 operation on a gradual basis - I assume in the interim they will be a mix of 800, 158 and possibly HST stock.

Excuse my not knowing, but what does WoE stand for?

West of England

 

[150249]

Are there currently any plans to re-extend the CrossCountry Manchester – Bristol services to Exeter as was the case in the December 2019(?) timetable, or is it going to stay as hourly Edinburgh – Plymouth using 220s / 221s with two per day to / from Penzance?

Off-topic but could short-formed XC services terminate at Exeter on Platform 2? I know Voyagers often stable there.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Off-topic but could short-formed XC services terminate at Exeter on Platform 2? I know Voyagers often stable there.

Western & Wales timetable planning rules published on NR’s website show ‘Platform 2 (north bay) as being 102 metres in length. A 4-car Cl.220 is 94m in length so even allowing for signal stand back this would fit, if a bit tightly. However a 5-car 221 would not fit and I suspect this would cause regular problems for operating a terminating service in practice - particularly as the Bristol-Manchester diagrams interwork with the Manchester-Bournemouth route and for this latter service a 4-car unit is not sufficient.

 

[MythTrain]

i think @A S Leib has answered this one adequately



From the May timetable the hourly service from Cardiff will terminate at Exeter St Davids, with one or two minor exceptions. These shortened services will continue to be operated by 800/5 units.

The Exeter-Penzance elements will transfer over to 175 operation on a gradual basis - I assume in the interim they will be a mix of 800, 158 and possibly HST stock.



West of England

Ah thanks!

 

[D6975]

Note that classes 800 and 802, although different when delivered, now have almost the same spec. This means that they are now fully interchangable. 802s go to Swansea and 800s go to Penzance.

 

[JonathanH]

Note that classes 800 and 802, although different when delivered, now have almost the same spec. This means that they are now fully interchangable. 802s go to Swansea and 800s go to Penzance.

802s always went to Swansea. Part of the reason for their procurement was to bolster an insufficiency in the 800 fleet. The original issue with 800s going to Cornwall was ensuring they could get back to a Hitachi depot or approved stabling point in line with the agreement.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

802s always went to Swansea. Part of the reason for their procurement was to bolster an insufficiency in the 800 fleet. The original issue with 800s going to Cornwall was ensuring they could get back to a Hitachi depot or approved stabling point in line with the agreement.

And in practice the main issue is that 800s can’t stable overnight at Laira or Penzance depots.

 

[sh24]

800's appear in the South West on a daily basis, but the majority of the services are 802. I've been tracking the sets on my Plymouth commute and have cleared the 802's entirely, but have a fair chunk of the 800 (especially the 5 car) to go.

 

[irish_rail]

And in practice the main issue is that 800s can’t stable overnight at Laira or Penzance depots.

Since when? 800s stable overnight routinely at both these depots and have done since covid.

 

[Clarence Yard]

Note that classes 800 and 802, although different when delivered, now have almost the same spec. This means that they are now fully interchangable. 802s go to Swansea and 800s go to Penzance.

The 800 and 802 units have always been near identical. From entry into service their engine rating has been the same as has their fuel tank capacity.

It was for contractual reasons that the 800 sets couldn’t operate the services to the west. There were restrictions on where the 800 units could operate to as well as their maintenance locations. These have been “relaxed” in part but the contract conditions still exist (especially on the maintenance side) and GWR is meant to work to them, where possible.

 

[Snow1964]

Freight is mainly stone trains from the Mendip quarries, and Westbury stables number of locos. There are a few each day.

There are a couple of maritime container trains which run via Bath and Trowbridge to Southampton each day. Some stone from Tytherington (near Yate) also comes this way (has been regular traffic to Quainton for HS2)

Early Monday morning regularly sees a number of freight trains via Newbury, Trowbridge, Bath when line via Swindon is closed for maintenance.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Since when? 800s stable overnight routinely at both these depots and have done since covid.

Not on a planned basis they don’t! I believe there has been a relaxation of the bar against basic stabling on Laira (in particular) but in terms of maintenance, fuelling, etc, only Class 802 units can fully utilise the depot facilities. Certainly on a planned basis, the inability to fully service 800 units overnight in the south west is a major constraint to what can / cannot be planned for GWR diagrams.

 

[Sir Felix Pole]

Freight is mainly stone trains from the Mendip quarries, and Westbury stables number of locos. There are a few each day.

There are a couple of maritime container trains which run via Bath and Trowbridge to Southampton each day. Some stone from Tytherington (near Yate) also comes this way (has been regular traffic to Quainton for HS2)

Early Monday morning regularly sees a number of freight trains via Newbury, Trowbridge, Bath when line via Swindon is closed for maintenance.

Also short-haul china clay trains in Cornwall to Carne Point (Fowey) and long-haul to Stoke on Trent. Aggregate traffic to Exeter Riverside has just finished. Very occasional nuclear flask traffic from Devonport Dockyard - the junction has recently been relaid.

As an aside, Ponsandane Sdgs, Penzance looked just about complete when I passed last week - will be able to stable 9 car 80Xs.

 

[MythTrain]

800's appear in the South West on a daily basis, but the majority of the services are 802. I've been tracking the sets on my Plymouth commute and have cleared the 802's entirely, but have a fair chunk of the 800 (especially the 5 car) to go.

I've got quite a few to go on both 802s and 800s and I didn't really count them, but similar to you, I've crossed off most 802s and it's mainly 800s left to go,

Freight is mainly stone trains from the Mendip quarries, and Westbury stables number of locos. There are a few each day.

There are a couple of maritime container trains which run via Bath and Trowbridge to Southampton each day. Some stone from Tytherington (near Yate) also comes this way (has been regular traffic to Quainton for HS2)

Early Monday morning regularly sees a number of freight trains via Newbury, Trowbridge, Bath when line via Swindon is closed for maintenance.

Thanks

Also short-haul china clay trains in Cornwall to Carne Point (Fowey) and long-haul to Stoke on Trent. Aggregate traffic to Exeter Riverside has just finished. Very occasional nuclear flask traffic from Devonport Dockyard - the junction has recently been relaid.

As an aside, Ponsandane Sdgs, Penzance looked just about complete when I passed last week - will be able to stable 9 car 80Xs.

Thanks you, do you know how I'd find out how many roads the depots have?

Hi all. Just wondering if the below is correct (thanks to everyone who gave me the info to compile this list):

Before May:

GWR:

• 1 tph Paddington – Plymouth / Penzance, nonstop between Reading and Taunton [mostly 802s]
• Approx. 1tp2h Paddington – Exeter St. Davids (/ Paignton / Plymouth) via Newbury, Hungerford, Pewsey, Westbury and Castle Cary [mostly 802s]
• 1tp2h Cardiff - Taunton [800/5] Alternates with Cardiff - Penzance and coincides with Plymouth - Penzance; 1tpd starts at Exmouth
• 1tp2h Cardiff - Penzance [800/5]
• 1tp2h Plymouth - Penzance [HST, 800/5]
• 2tph Exmouth - Paignton
• 1tph Exeter Central - Okehampton
• 1tph Exeter Central - Barnstaple [15x, 16x] 1tpd extend to each: Axminister, Paignton and Exmouth.
• 1 tph Gloucester – Westbury (– Weymouth ~every other hour) [15x, 16x]
• 1 tph Cardiff Central – Portsmouth Harbour [15x, 16x]
• 1 tph Bristol Temple Meads – Westbury (hourly that far; 4 trains per day terminating) / Warminster (4 tpd) / Salisbury (5 tpd) / Frome (1 tpd) / Weymouth (1 tpd) for a total of 3 GWR tph between Bristol Temple Meads and Westbury [15x, 16x]

XC:

• 1tph Plymouth - Edinburgh [22x] 1tpd extends to: Dundee, Glasgow; 2tpd start at Penzance; 1tpd start at: Bristol, Derby, Leeds, York, Newcastle, Glasgow and Aberdeen; 3tpd end at Leeds; 1tpd end at: Birmingham, Penzance.
• xtpxh Bristol - Manchester [22x] 2tpd extend to Paignton
• Also a Bristol - Paignton in morning, unsure where it fits

SWR:

• 1tph Waterloo - Exeter St Davids [159] Would be cool if someone could confirm to tpd to Paignton etc...
• 2-4 tpd Waterloo - Yeovil Jn.

Freight:

• 5-10 tpd Merehead - (Acton? - does anyone know any other common destinations)
• 4-8 tpd Whatley - (As above)

Still needs a bit of work, but thanks so much for all the help so far.

 

[A S Leib]

• 1tph Waterloo - Exeter St Davids [159] Would be cool if someone could confirm to tpd to Paignton etc.

No SWR services in that area go west of Exeter.

• 2-4 tpd Portsmouth - Yeovil Jn.

I don't think any SWR Yeovil services start from Portsmouth; all from London / Exeter.

I think it's worth mentioning the 1 tpd GWR Barnstaple to Axminster as well (a 158 today).

 

[cjw714]

No SWR services in that area go west of Exeter.

I don't think any SWR Yeovil services start from Portsmouth; all from London / Exeter.

I think it's worth mentioning the 1 tpd GWR Barnstaple to Axminster as well (a 158 today).

Also worth mentioning the 1 tpd from Exmouth to Cardiff (only in that direction) and 1 tpd from Barnstaple goes to and from Exmouth and another goes to and from Paignton.

 

[MythTrain]

No SWR services in that area go west of Exeter.

I don't think any SWR Yeovil services start from Portsmouth; all from London / Exeter.

I think it's worth mentioning the 1 tpd GWR Barnstaple to Axminster as well (a 158 today).

Also worth mentioning the 1 tpd from Exmouth to Cardiff (only in that direction) and 1 tpd from Barnstaple goes to and from Exmouth and another goes to and from Paignton.

Both corrected, thanks!

 

[A S Leib]

Class 57s on the Night Riviera from Paddington to Penzance (normally via Newbury and Taunton; I think Swindon then Melksham, Swindon then Bristol, Castle Cary then Yeovil and Basingstoke then Yeovil are possible diversions) is the only other one I can think of.

 

[Chingy]

Freight:

• 5-10 tpd Merehead - (Acton? - does anyone know any other common destinations)
• 4-8 tpd Whatley - (As above)

In terms of freight traffic on the B&H (primarily between Westbury & Reading), the common runners are as follows in the up direction -

6A29 Merehead - Hanwell/Southall
6A31 Whatley - Theale ARC
6O98 Whatley - Allington (Stoke Gifford on Mondays)
6A40 Merehead - Hanwell
6Z52 Tytherington - Quainton Road (DCR)
6A18 Whatley - Oxford Banbury Road
6A50 Whatley - Hanwell
6A60 Merehead - Colnbrook (MWFO)
6A99 Merehead - Theale FY (TTHO)
6A61 Whatley - West Drayton
6A70 Whatley - Dawley Loop
6M18 Merehead - Willesden Sidings (DCR)
6A80 Merehead - Hanwell
6M47 Whatley - Cricklewood (DB)
6A90 Merehead - Hanwell/Southall
6A00 Whatley - Hanwell/Southall
6A10 Merehead - Hanwell/Southall
6A19 Merehead - Hanwell/Southall

And in the down direction -

6V80 Wembley - Whatley
6V90 Wembley - Merehead
6C60 Colnbrook - Merehead
6V14/0V14 Cliffe Hill - Westbury Yard (Colas)
6A11 Robeston - Theale Puma (DB)
6V20 Wembley - Merehead
6C52 West Drayton - East Usk Yard
6C31 Theale ARC - Whatley
6V31 Wembley - Merehead
6V40 Wembley - Merehead
6V18 Oxford Banbury Road - Whatley
6Z23 Wembley - Tytherington
6V50 Wembley - Merehead
6V60 Wembley - Whatley
6V70 Wembley - Merehead
6V10 Acton Yard - Whatley (DB)
6C99 Theale FY - Merehead
6C62 West Drayton - Whatley

Worth noting, these don’t all run everyday, but they’re the more regular runners that often run a few times a week at least. There are other paths that run much more occasionally.

 

[contrex]

Will the Severn Beach - Salisburys continue? One per weekday I think?