Has Avanti West Coast cut back the direct London to Holyhead service with the recent timetable change?

[PointA Rail]

Has Avanti West Coast cut back the direct London to Holyhead service with the recent timetable change?

And if so have they now withdrawn their Voyagers?

 

[hexagon789]

Has Avanti West Coast cut back the direct London to Holyhead service with the recent timetable change?

No, there are still 5 through services on weekdays.

And if so have they now withdrawn their Voyagers?

They have withdrawn the 221s, yes.

 

[PointA Rail]

No, there are still 5 through services on weekdays.


They have withdrawn the 221s, yes.

Alright thank you for clearing that up.

 

[dk1]

Alright thank you for clearing that up.

Although 5 are booked it is very hit/miss with traincrew shortages. Many do not make it west of Chester.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

But there are no through trains Chester/North Wales to Euston until Sunday Jan 5, thanks to the resignalling work at Crewe.
Most days there is a shuttle to/from Crewe.

 

[dk1]

But there are no through trains Chester/North Wales to Euston until Sunday Jan 5, thanks to the resignalling work at Crewe.
Most days there is a shuttle to/from Crewe.

I see the 07:46 Holyhead-Crewe and 10:45 return are cancelled this morning due to shortage of traincrew.

 

[Western 52]

Isn't Holyhead Port shut at the moment due to storm damage? Presumably less demand for trains there until it reopens.

 

[Shimbleshanks]

Isn't Holyhead Port shut at the moment due to storm damage? Presumably less demand for trains there until it reopens.

Doubt whether the port problems are the reason for the curtailment. Not many passengers on the North Wales services go through to Holyhead, and only a minuscule number connect on to ferries. Most of the business is to intermediate stations like Rhyl, Colwyn Bay, Bangor etc.

 

[higthomas]

But there are no through trains Chester/North Wales to Euston until Sunday Jan 5, thanks to the resignalling work at Crewe.
Most days there is a shuttle to/from Crewe.

We caught a Colwyn-Birmingham TFW train yesterday morning; 2 carriages and I've never seen a train leave so many people behind. It was at least 30 at every station between Rhyl and Shrewsbury.

In a world where passengers were the railways top priority, Avanti would have been running London-North Wales via Birmingham and Shrewsbury services given I think it would be obvious to everyone that people from Chester and North Wales would try and avoid the buses. But sadly we don't live in such a world.

 

[Sheridan]

We caught a Colwyn-Birmingham TFW train yesterday morning; 2 carriages and I've never seen a train leave so many people behind. It was at least 30 at every station between Rhyl and Shrewsbury.

In a world where passengers were the railways top priority, Avanti would have been running London-North Wales via Birmingham and Shrewsbury services given I think it would be obvious to everyone that people from Chester and North Wales would try and avoid the buses. But sadly we don't live in such a world.

TfW’s South Wales to Manchester services were running South Wales to Crewe via Wrexham and Chester - effectively doubling the service between Shrewsbury and Chester in both directions. With the long signal block between Wrexham and Gobowen and the short section of single line between Wrexham and Chester I’m not sure there would be space for anything else although perhaps someone could correct me!

Edit: Apologies, I misread the date. The extra TfW services were running yesterday but not on Friday 27th from what I can tell.

 

[sgwigs]

Doubt whether the port problems are the reason for the curtailment. Not many passengers on the North Wales services go through to Holyhead, and only a minuscule number connect on to ferries. Most of the business is to intermediate stations like Rhyl, Colwyn Bay, Bangor etc.

That’s a lie, why don’t you try using a service from Holyhead on the 12.48 to Euston, better still, have a look from Easter onwards, good luck getting a seat!

 

[poffle]

That’s a lie, why don’t you try using a service from Holyhead on the 12.48 to Euston, better still, have a look from Easter onwards, good luck getting a seat!

Stena announced a couple of days ago that the Ferries won't be back to the normal timetable until July. These changes haven't yet worked through to the national rail timetable.

The 09:0x "Boat Train" from Euston now only has one 805 set going through to Holyhead whereas it always operated as a double Voyager EUS-HHD. This in turn forms the 14:48 to Euston. ( Though an 805 carries more passengers than a Voyager and has much more luggage room.)

The 805s do have ongoing reliability issues though and it's not unusual to have trains partly cancelled.

Usually there aren't that many Sailrail passengers but at mid term breaks and holiday periods there can be several bus loads of foot passengers going into each ferry.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

That’s a lie, why don’t you try using a service from Holyhead on the 12.48 to Euston, better still, have a look from Easter onwards, good luck getting a seat!

"Lie" is unnecessarily harsh. Misinformed or incorrect, perhaps.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The Chester/North Wales timetable is not back to 2019 levels, and there are surprising gaps, not least the 1602 from Euston which now goes to Liverpool.
In Virgin days, the 1610 was the one train barred to North Wales passengers returning with off-peak tickets.
The early Holyhead-Euston (which combined with a Blackpool portion at Crewe) is still missing, with not even a connection from Chester to Crewe.
A double unit now runs from Blackpool (after running as ECS from Crewe).
Oddly, there are more 10-car formations on North Wales services than in the Voyager days, but running fewer discrete services.

 

[nwales58]

Beyond Chester we still have 5 Eustons (timetabled).

The 'surprising gaps' are maybe slightly better because evening used to be mainly an hour apart from Euston (memory, might be wrong) whereas it's now 3 x 2 hours apart plus the new-ish 2000 (the no-longer 16xx was useful for a few as it connected with Conwy Valley). Used to have two in the morning it's now one but at least savers are valid on it. Up seems little changed, I think it used to be 1315 and 1415 from Bangor whereas it is now 1315 and 1515.

Problem is not the timetable, it's the performance on the day, 5 versus 10 coaches, and two decades of above inflation increases pushing the saver fares to 'is it worth it' level and having to fiddle around with advances instead. First fares are even worse.

I've used these since HST days ...

Not many passengers on the North Wales services go through to Holyhead, and only a minuscule number connect on to ferries. Most of the business is to intermediate stations like Rhyl, Colwyn Bay, Bangor etc.

Very true. Anglo-Irish is very peaky. Most of the time foot ferry (and coach) traffic is close to zero because Ryanair is far cheaper, faster and less affected by weather. At peaks Ryan's fares shoot up and rail/ferry becomes competitive, especially if you have luggage.

 

[Llandudno]

Beyond Chester we still have 5 Eustons (timetabled).

The 'surprising gaps' are maybe slightly better because evening used to be mainly an hour apart from Euston (memory, might be wrong) whereas it's now 3 x 2 hours apart plus the new-ish 2000 (the no-longer 16xx was useful for a few as it connected with Conwy Valley). Used to have two in the morning it's now one but at least savers are valid on it. Up seems little changed, I think it used to be 1315 and 1415 from Bangor whereas it is now 1315 and 1515.

Problem is not the timetable, it's the performance on the day, 5 versus 10 coaches, and two decades of above inflation increases pushing the saver fares to 'is it worth it' level and having to fiddle around with advances instead. First fares are even worse.

I've used these since HST days ...


Very true. Anglo-Irish is very peaky. Most of the time foot ferry (and coach) traffic is close to zero because Ryanair is far cheaper, faster and less affected by weather. At peaks Ryan's fares shoot up and rail/ferry becomes competitive, especially if you have luggage.

It’s more than short forming though, there are so many Avanti full/part cancellations that you can’t rely on it and you end up packed into a 2 Car TfW unit instead.

 

[higthomas]

It’s more than short forming though, there are so many Avanti full/part cancellations that you can’t rely on it and you end up packed into a 2 Car TfW unit instead.

A large part of why I think everyone gets so annoyed at Avanti is the contrast between the journeys. A direct Avanti is lovely vs 2 car TFW with changes at Crewe and Chester which is generally miserable.