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Has public transport ever run on Christmas and Boxing day?

MadMac

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Don't think it is anything to do with religious observation. Perhaps more to do with our unique culture, a concept that some like to scoff at but undoubtedly exists.
As part of the BR S&T Restructuring “package” three additional annual leave days were granted to office-based staff to be taken between Christmas and New Year. The thinking was that many people were already doing so anyway and there was a significant saving in overhead costs by essentially closing these offices down for about ten days. That may well have percolated through to other businesses.
 
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Shaw S Hunter

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Don't think it is anything to do with religious observation. Perhaps more to do with our unique culture, a concept that some like to scoff at but undoubtedly exists.
That may well be true but what exactly is it about our culture that is so different compared to just about everywhere else? Why do so many people expect to not have to work at all during the Christmas/New Year period while still expecting public services to carry on almost as normal? What is the difference maker?
 

Goldfish62

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That may well be true but what exactly is it about our culture that is so different compared to just about everywhere else? Why do so many people expect to not have to work at all during the Christmas/New Year period while still expecting public services to carry on almost as normal? What is the difference maker?
Just as well most public services do carry on as normal otherwise we'd have no heat or electricity over Christmas. Someone I know of was called in at 0730 on Christmas Day for a fairly routine operation.
 

RT4038

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That may well be true but what exactly is it about our culture that is so different compared to just about everywhere else? Why do so many people expect to not have to work at all during the Christmas/New Year period while still expecting public services to carry on almost as normal? What is the difference maker?
As far as public transport is concerned - history at a guess. Reduced or no services on Sundays and Bank Holidays was pretty much the situation from the beginning of the railways, sometimes due to religious reasons and mostly due to little demand from workers and little spare cash amongst the working classes to make leisure journeys of any distance. In the more populated areas some services ran (and cheap excursions), but often tailored to specific demands. The 6 day working week introduced in the 1920s (which put Sunday work as overtime) acted as a disincentive to increase services anyway. When bus services started, substantial services were operated on Sundays, but these were considerably pared back as a wartime fuel/tyre/materials/staff economy measure and never fully restored (or restored and cut back again) due to staffing shortages and t&c changes after the war. If public transport could get by with such Sunday provision then they were not really an essential service on those sort of days , and as car ownership increased (and the need to travel reduced with home TV replacing cinemas etc) what services that did run were increasingly empty and uneconomic. Of course, circumstances have changed a bit, but once granted it is difficult to claw back - what reason would management / owners wish to do this when the services will probably be uneconomic and anyway, they have their own private transport and don't see any problem.
 

DDB

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I assume it is one of those things that is very difficult to introduce or reintroduce into exisiting staff T&Cs. Nottingham Trams run on boxing day (Christmas day is the obly day it is ****) and I assume that is because it is a new system started from scratch so was built into the staff contracts before anyone was taken on.
It is only a Sunday service but again the Sunday service is not that much of a reduction from a weekday I suspect for the same reasons.
 

Mcr Warrior

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Manchester Metrolink has always had a "Sunday service" on Boxing Day since the tram system first started operating back in 1992.

Christmas Eve services on Manchester Metrolink have invariably always ended by around 9 p.m., so there's never been any later services continuing after midnight into Christmas Day morning.
 

swt_passenger

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I believe that since 2010 there has not been a year without another thread starting about Boxing Day services.

Dec 2024 will see one or two, I expect, and I predict it will mention National traditions, regional differences, staff contracts, engineering access, demand, lack of demand, full football programme, sales, etc etc. There might even be something new… o_O
 

Shaw S Hunter

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As far as public transport is concerned - history at a guess. Reduced or no services on Sundays and Bank Holidays was pretty much the situation from the beginning of the railways, sometimes due to religious reasons and mostly due to little demand from workers and little spare cash amongst the working classes to make leisure journeys of any distance. In the more populated areas some services ran (and cheap excursions), but often tailored to specific demands. The 6 day working week introduced in the 1920s (which put Sunday work as overtime) acted as a disincentive to increase services anyway. When bus services started, substantial services were operated on Sundays, but these were considerably pared back as a wartime fuel/tyre/materials/staff economy measure and never fully restored (or restored and cut back again) due to staffing shortages and t&c changes after the war. If public transport could get by with such Sunday provision then they were not really an essential service on those sort of days , and as car ownership increased (and the need to travel reduced with home TV replacing cinemas etc) what services that did run were increasingly empty and uneconomic. Of course, circumstances have changed a bit, but once granted it is difficult to claw back - what reason would management / owners wish to do this when the services will probably be uneconomic and anyway, they have their own private transport and don't see any problem.
A nice summary of history but mostly focused on the supply side of the equation and doesn't answer the fundamental question. So I'll ask again (not just aimed at @RT4038 ): what is so different about this country that so many people expect to have a near fortnight long shutdown of their own employment while expecting all parts of the service sector to operate normally throughout barring Christmas Day? While it's reasonable to expect emergency services to be available as normal and for essential utilities to have contingency staff on stand-by why should other services have similar availability just to suit a minority of the population who get bored being at home for two days in a row?

I believe that since 2010 there has not been a year without another thread starting about Boxing Day services.

Dec 2024 will see one or two, I expect, and I predict it will mention National traditions, regional differences, staff contracts, engineering access, demand, lack of demand, full football programme, sales, etc etc. There might even be something newo_O
How about extending the Christmas Day/Easter Sunday trading restrictions to Boxing Day too? No more sales with little or no public transport, no more enforced Boxing Day working for those who really don't want it, etc. What is so essential about doing things on Boxing Day that could just as easily be done on December 27th? Alternatively scrap the Boxing Day public holiday and replace it with a day during a warmer time of the year!
 

Busaholic

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How about extending the Christmas Day/Easter Sunday trading restrictions to Boxing Day too?
You wouldn't be able to cite Christian religious objections to justify such restrictions, so I doubt it would get through Parliament. The Tories don't give a damn for workers' rights!
 

Jamesrob637

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Alternatively scrap the Boxing Day public holiday and replace it with a day during a warmer time of the year!

But shops won't shut on the warmer day like they do on Xmas Day and Easter Sunday unless it passes bill and is made mandatory.
 

341o2

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How about extending the Christmas Day/Easter Sunday trading restrictions to Boxing Day too? No more sales with little or no public transport, no more enforced Boxing Day working for those who really don't want it, etc. What is so essential about doing things on Boxing Day that could just as easily be done on December 27th? Alternatively scrap the Boxing Day public holiday and replace it with a day during a warmer time of the year!
That used to happen. Shops would close at teatime Christmas Eve, and remain closed over Christmas Day and Boxing Day, reopening on the 27th (assuming not a Sunday).
Regarding other cultures, many make more of Christmas Eve (midnight mass, present giving). Very few have Boxing Day as a holiday
 

RT4038

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A nice summary of history but mostly focused on the supply side of the equation and doesn't answer the fundamental question. So I'll ask again (not just aimed at @RT4038 ): what is so different about this country that so many people expect to have a near fortnight long shutdown of their own employment while expecting all parts of the service sector to operate normally throughout barring Christmas Day?
Many people expect at least a fortnight of holiday during August, while expecting all parts of the service sector to be operating normally throughout . If their employment is doing something which attendance is not required (education for instance), or can be worked on in advance, or caught up afterwards, then why not take the leave? Employees in the service sector get just as much leave as anyone else, and can take it spread out at another time. Leave over Christmas and New Year is no phenomenon to the UK only - very common in South Africa, Australia and New Zealand too - and the service sector is expected to operate normally there too.

While it's reasonable to expect emergency services to be available as normal and for essential utilities to have contingency staff on stand-by why should other services have similar availability just to suit a minority of the population who get bored being at home for two days in a row?
I think that is probably tarring people unfairly. It is most likely to be those who do have to work all or part of the 'near fortnight' that need to move around on these days , plus those with widely dispersed families etc etc.

Perhaps the fundamental question is: Why do UK public transport workers think that they should all be off on Christmas Day/Boxing Day when this is not the practice in most of the rest of the world?
 

Typhoon

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Buses used to run in Birmingham on Christmas Day morning apparently according to older relatives. I don't remember it myself. They do run on Boxing Day though, a limited Sunday service i think.
Definitely did. My experience is from the early seventies (so WMPTE). Hourly along the radial routes from the city (so there would be one along the Bristol Road - maybe as far as Longbridge, one along the Pershore Road, one along the Stratford Road). Started about 10:00,finished about 15:00 or 16:00. Route like the inner and outer circle may have run, can't remember.

Stagecoach East Kent did run some limited services on key routes on Boxing Day until quite recently (I can’t remember if they ran last year or not). At least before Covid, I believe they were well used. I suspect declining demand for shops, as well as difficulty getting drivers, has helped end that.
They used to print timetables. I thought I might have one as they were much the same, year upon year. Most services that ran were hourly but I remember that the Loop was more frequent.
 

Shaw S Hunter

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Perhaps the fundamental question is: Why do UK public transport workers think that they should all be off on Christmas Day/Boxing Day when this is not the practice in most of the rest of the world?
Perhaps the answer lies in your earlier post!;)
Don't think it is anything to do with religious observation. Perhaps more to do with our unique culture, a concept that some like to scoff at but undoubtedly exists.
 

Mogster

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Remembered this article from a few years ago. Seems the same service still runs.

A single bus snakes through the empty streets of Manchester on Christmas Day,ferrying passengers between the airport and the city centre.

The number 43, the only bus running in the region, makes its usual trip along the Wilmslow Road corridor. It's the busiest bus route in Europe, but it falls silent on this one day of the year.

Adam Kinsella, from Wythenshawe, is one of only four Stagecoach drivers making the rounds to pick up holidaymakers and partygoers who would otherwise be stranded.

And the 34-year-old, who worked as an infantry soldier before becoming a driver six years ago, says he's fine working the shift as his kids are with their mum for the day.

"I don't mind working Christmas Day because truthfully, I've got nothing better to do. I'm not gonna see my kids and I've only got my mum and dad here. I've not been with the boys' mum for several years. (Christmas) is only ever really about the kids," he says.
 

Busaholic

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Mustn't forget the special free service run on Christmas Day over the last few years on part of London's route 430 between Putney Bridge Station and Roehampton using RT family buses, usually two in number. It seems to carry more enthusiasts than people in genuine need of the bus, and has nothing whatever to do with TfL.
 

dgl

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We've had boxing day buses and trains in Weymouth before if my memory serves me correctly, I do remember going to visit my Gran as a kid in the 2000's and us getting to Yeovil and finding no buses running and my Auntie having to come and pick us up.
 

JD2168

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There was a Christmas Day service in Leeds run with a heritage step entrance bus to St James Hospital for a number of years, not sure if it ran this year.
 

30907

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I am indebted to a poster on another forum for quoting GT moody, Southern Electric 2nd ed: to summarise -
severe cuts were made to electric services for Christmas 1962 and the last suburban trains ran in 1968, boat trains a year later - a couple of years earlier than I remembered.
 

Busaholic

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I am indebted to a poster on another forum for quoting GT moody, Southern Electric 2nd ed: to summarise -
severe cuts were made to electric services for Christmas 1962 and the last suburban trains ran in 1968, boat trains a year later - a couple of years earlier than I remembered.
I grew up in S.E.London in the midst of Southern Electricland on the Bexleyheath line to Dartford. My younger brother became quite ill on Christmas Day morning 1961, in the days when your G.P. was on call at all hours. Understandably, on Christmas Day other arrangements had to be made and so a G.P. in East London had the telephone call forwarded to him and proceeded to travel from Whitechapel to Eltham by Underground to London Bridge, then SR Electric to Eltham. In the estimation of my parents he saved my brother's life: if it had been the following Christmas, that journey would almost certainly have been impossible. I should add that though the winter of 1962/3 lives long in memory and folklore, 1961/2's started at Christmas in much the same way but didn't last.
 

30907

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I grew up in S.E.London in the midst of Southern Electricland on the Bexleyheath line to Dartford. My younger brother became quite ill on Christmas Day morning 1961, in the days when your G.P. was on call at all hours. Understandably, on Christmas Day other arrangements had to be made and so a G.P. in East London had the telephone call forwarded to him and proceeded to travel from Whitechapel to Eltham by Underground to London Bridge, then SR Electric to Eltham. In the estimation of my parents he saved my brother's life: if it had been the following Christmas, that journey would almost certainly have been impossible. I should add that though the winter of 1962/3 lives long in memory and folklore, 1961/2's started at Christmas in much the same way but didn't last.
Pedantically: there was still a 2-hourly suburban service in 1962 - and IIRC the serious snow (in SE London anyway) started on Boxing Day.
 

Busaholic

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Pedantically: there was still a 2-hourly suburban service in 1962 - and IIRC the serious snow (in SE London anyway) started on Boxing Day.
Yes, I remember the snow starting, but it was pretty cold on Christmas Day too. A two-hourly suburban service might not have been sufficient to get the doctor to our house on time, and my older brother had died at that age.
 

alex397

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It’s the communities that only have Mon-Fri services I feel sorry for. There’s a few in Kent, such as the 11 (Canterbury-Westwood) and 125 (Ashford-Aldington) and others.
Their most recent bus was Friday 22nd December and they won’t have another until Tuesday 2nd January. 10 days without a bus service. Why would anyone want to rely on a bus like that unless that had absolutely no other choice?
 

seaviewer

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I have just dug out, “Passenger Timetable. Great Britain - Holiday alterations, Christmas and New Year holidays, 21 December 1978 to 2 January 1979". By coincidence, Christmas Day was on a Monday.

At risk of oversimplifying, the position was:
December 24: Some services finished early; some carried on, near-normally.
December 25: ONLY: Glasgow to Ayr, Gourock, Airdrie and two circular services via Motherwell
December 26: 66 pages of Timetables and amendments, showing that many principal routes (and some branches) had an hourly service. Other routes less well served, eg Waterloo-Exeter only 4 trains, but all with refreshments!
Those were the days!?

Happy New Year everyone!
 

Roger1973

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Perhaps a wider question is when did Christmas and New Year become a period of complete shutdown for so many businesses? And why has that become so prevalent in this country but not elsewhere? Especially as religious observation, certainly in its Christian form, is so low.

Don't think it is anything to do with religious observation. Perhaps more to do with our unique culture, a concept that some like to scoff at but undoubtedly exists.

I'm fairly sure it has changed in the time I can remember, and religious observation (at least of a Christian nature) seems to have shrunk in the UK over the last 50 years.

While I remember school holidays lasting over Christmas and New Year in my childhood (I'm told that wasn't always a thing in earlier decades) I don't remember the semi shutdown being so much of a thing in the 70s and 80s, although obviously in many jobs, people could take the three 'weekdays' between Christmas and New Year off if they wanted.

I don't know if it was different in the sort of towns / cities where there were established 'factory holiday' weeks / fortnights in the summer, they may have had a similar shutdown over Christmas and New Year.

I do remember there being a bit of a fuss at a place (non transport) I worked in the early 90s, where management decided in early December that they would not open the office on the days between Christmas and New Year to save costs - this did not go down well especially with people who had already booked all their leave for the year and were intending to work those days...
 

GCH100

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Up until at least deregulation Greater Manchester saw a limited service of buses on Christmas Day consisting almost entirely of hospital buses timed to allow for hospital visiting. This was mostly on routes that happened to serve the major hospitals and was often only over part of the routes concerned. Always seemed like something of a token gesture but I gather they were used if rather lightly.

I remember this, they operated until about 1988, that was the last year they ran in the Leigh/Atherton area's. Three vehicles operated them namely two GM Buses Double deck Atherton Depot vehicles and a Jim Stones Minibus.
 

EdinRH

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Lothian have run services on Christmas Day for many years now but in the LRT (Lothian Region Transport) era and also in the early years of Lothian Buses, services on Christmas Day, Boxing Day, Ne'erday* and January 2nd stuck to the city limits - the four days of the year when LRT/Lothian ran within its traditional boundaries.

* Ne'erday - Scots for New Year's Day.
I remember when I was a kid (late 80s/early 90s) publicity on the buses and in the bus office would merely state that on these four days a "Holiday Service" would operate. I only remember my parents being able to obtain a printed timetable on one occasion (1989 IIRC). This timetable did not distinguish between LRT and Eastern services with the same route number, leading my parents to believe that we would be able to catch a bus home from my aunt and uncle's when this wasn't the case. In other years we were unsure what buses were running at all as no printed timetables could be found, and the Internet was either non-existant or very uncommon.
 

duncombec

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It’s the communities that only have Mon-Fri services I feel sorry for. There’s a few in Kent, such as the 11 (Canterbury-Westwood) and 125 (Ashford-Aldington) and others.
Their most recent bus was Friday 22nd December and they won’t have another until Tuesday 2nd January. 10 days without a bus service. Why would anyone want to rely on a bus like that unless that had absolutely no other choice?
Each of which has lost their Saturday service over the 15-or-so years, because it was the least used day of the week. Indeed, the 11 was only retained at all at the last minute last year. Looking at the timetable for summer 1979 which happens to be out of the box at the moment, whilst the 125 may not have a Saturday service, and this no service at all last week, the timetable now offers more opportunities for travel than it did in the supposedly good days of bus travel*.

I think there are times when threads like these tend to get "derailed" slightly, in that it's very easy to look at a place, or a time of day, and say "oh look, here's a reason why nobody uses the bus" - they very rarely look the other way and realise that there might not be a bus because when there was one, so few people used it! How many non-car-owners and non-internet users do you think there are in Aldington and Mersham who will be in particular difficulty by virtue of having a few extra days without a bus service?


* The equivalent service in summer 1979 (111) shows journeys from Aldington to Ashford at 0815, 1117, 1538 and 1719 (plus a 1400 on Fridays only that doesn't have an outward working), returning at 0850, 1300, 1615 and 1800 (Ignoring the 0720 schooldays only, as that terminated at Aldington to form a relief school bus to the 0815). The modern service 125 runs at 0735, 1010, 1210, 1410, 1633 and 1810, returning from Ashford at 0940, 1140, 1340, 1600 and 1740 - an increase from effectively 48 journeys a week to 55 journeys a week, at a more regular frequency, albeit over 5 days rather than 6. I can't find the service at a quick look through my few earlier timetables.
 
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Lothian have run services on Christmas Day for many years now but in the LRT (Lothian Region Transport) era and also in the early years of Lothian Buses, services on Christmas Day, Boxing Day, Ne'erday* and January 2nd stuck to the city limits - the four days of the year when LRT/Lothian ran within its traditional boundaries.

* Ne'erday - Scots for New Year's Day.
From what I recall, bus services have always run in Edinburgh, West & East Lothian on Christmas Day, Boxing Day and first two days of January, albeit with council support for some routes. I believe Lothian or LRT ran festive season buses from the mid-1990s without any Edinburgh Council support to prevent another company doing so and gaining a foot-hold in the market. Might have been Arriva who were challengers in those days - I could be wrong and I'm sure you'll know much better than me.

However 2023 is the first year I can remember Edinburgh's trains running on Boxing Day. I've no idea if the trains were busy but the Boxing Day & Ne'erday buses are normally well used during the daytime. Another reason for avoiding running trains may be to make progress with important engineering projects during this quieter spell, which I can imagine was neglected throughout the 20th century.
 

EdinRH

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From what I recall, bus services have always run in Edinburgh, West & East Lothian on Christmas Day, Boxing Day and first two days of January, albeit with council support for some routes. I believe Lothian or LRT ran festive season buses from the mid-1990s without any Edinburgh Council support to prevent another company doing so and gaining a foot-hold in the market. Might have been Arriva who were challengers in those days - I could be wrong and I'm sure you'll know much better than me.

However 2023 is the first year I can remember Edinburgh's trains running on Boxing Day. I've no idea if the trains were busy but the Boxing Day & Ne'erday buses are normally well used during the daytime. Another reason for avoiding running trains may be to make progress with important engineering projects during this quieter spell, which I can imagine was neglected throughout the 20th century.
I don't recall Arriva ever running in Edinburgh or the Lothians. I vaguely remember Arriva attempting to buy Lothian and being turned down. Lothian's main competitors were Eastern Scottish/SMT/First (name changed in 1990 due to staff buyout, and again in late 1990s due to takeover)
 

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