Has the Sheffield Tram Train been a success? Could tram trains work in other places in the UK?

[snowball]

Would that allow for conversion to 25kv then?

(Forgive me - I don't know too much about the elastic trickery.)

Presumably if it were converted there would have to be some changes, like introducing bonding straps in places to bypass insulators.

 

[Greybeard33]

There have been murmurings of extending tram train to Mexborough and possibly on to Doncaster, either on the current, shared route north of Rotherham or via the freight line (which would require at least one new stop for Swinton, possibly also Kilnhurst - both had "-Central" stations on that line). Couldn't say how far those murmurings have got. Were I to speculate, you could have every 15 minutes to Rotherham, two terminating at Parkgate, two extending to Doncaster but coming off the track and onto a road terminus outside the station, and removing Northern's heavy rail service. That's just me speculating though. Also, a plan for a Rotherham Mainline station, though I can't work out exactly where.

These "murmurings" sound like the TfN "preferred network" proposal for Northern Powerhouse Rail from Sheffield to Leeds (which did not make it into the Government's Integrated Rail Plan). This proposal included new NPR stations "Rotherham Mainline" and "Barnsley Dearne Valley", with the tram-train extended from Rotherham to Doncaster to free up main line capacity for four fast trains per hour Sheffield - Leeds.

To provide capacity for Northern Powerhouse Rail services on the railway north of Sheffield, local services between Sheffield and Doncaster will be served by an extended tram train network. Building on the successful tram train pilot to Rotherham Parkgate, this will provide new local journey opportunities between Sheffield city centre and the supertram network and intermediate stations through Rotherham and Doncaster.

https://transportforthenorth.com/wp-content/uploads/Northern-Powerhouse-Rail-Connect.pdf

 

[YorksLad12]

These "murmurings" sound like the TfN "preferred network" proposal for Northern Powerhouse Rail from Sheffield to Leeds (which did not make it into the Government's Integrated Rail Plan). This proposal included new NPR stations "Rotherham Mainline" and "Barnsley Dearne Valley", with the tram-train extended from Rotherham to Doncaster to free up main line capacity for four fast trains per hour Sheffield - Leeds.

https://transportforthenorth.com/wp-content/uploads/Northern-Powerhouse-Rail-Connect.pdf

You could be right. I think Rotherham Mainline has been a vague aspiration for a while, and I'm guessing Barnsley Dearne Valley would be a new station on a new line, and nowhere near Barnsley (like Cudworth for Barnsley was). But we don't have HS2 or NPR in the area now, so all bets are off.

If you did move the stopping service into tram train, you could still run a fast service via the Old Road from Sheffield to Doncaster calling at Meadowhall only, then all stops to Cleethorpes (say) if tram train used the freight line.

 

[sleepy_hollow]

I hadn't thought it through in depth to be honest, only that the line loops round Bristol in a very useful fashion but then terminates at Temple Meads half an hour's walk from the centre. Some way of connecting that segregated loop to a city centre tramway would be very useful.
.....

The simple way to connect to the city centre would be changing on to a tramway, preferably one passing through on it'd way from somewhere to somewhere else. Currently Temple Meads is not even really on the bus network.

Karlsruhe has been a success because the short tram train section in the middle connects extensive railway networks on opposite sides of the city. Had there been a railway link the street running would be unnecessary as would the tram trains. In Bristol there is no missing link connecting two separated railway networks. You could go off from Lawrence Hill through the Lidl car park and on to Horsefair and Temple Meads but sending the trains that way would take much longer. I suppose you could combine a tram train service dawdling through town to Temple Meads with a new northbound curve at Narroways giving customers the choice of the slow tram train to quaint old central Bristol, or the fast suburban train to Parkway, the main line and the modern world.

 

[edwin_m]

Most of the Karsruhe tram-train routes join onto lines which also run into the Hauptbahnhof. I'd say the primary reasons for its success were: Haptbanhof being a long way from the city centre; but with existing tram lines right outside that could be connected relatively easily; plus a range of under-used rail routes radiating from the city that had capacity available to increase service.

A few places in Britain have the first, very few have the second, and after Beeching even fewer have the third.

 

[GingerSte]

I do wonder, now that the tram has been extended past Rotherham, whether it would be an easy job to extend it a touch further to serve Thrybergh and Dalton. I realise that they are not the biggest of places, but most of the infrastructure will be in place, and not seeing much use.

 

[D365]

If you did move the stopping service into tram train, you could still run a fast service via the Old Road from Sheffield to Doncaster calling at Meadowhall only, then all stops to Cleethorpes (say) if tram train used the freight line.

Which Old Road is that?

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Most of the Karsruhe tram-train routes join onto lines which also run into the Hauptbahnhof. I'd say the primary reasons for its success were: Haptbanhof being a long way from the city centre; but with existing tram lines right outside that could be connected relatively easily; plus a range of under-used rail routes radiating from the city that had capacity available to increase service.

A few places in Britain have the first, very few have the second, and after Beeching even fewer have the third.

I wish all those people, ranging from reasonably knowledgable enthusiasts to ignorant but well-meaning campaigners and politicians, would read this post and accept the truth that it speaks. It's noticeable that after the initial rush of widespread enthusiasm for the concept that Karlsruhe's success generated there have been relatively few schemes anywhere that have been delivered to completion. Tram-train in reality is a solution to a somewhat niche problem. Its popularity among some public transport supporters has a lot to do with it being nominally cheaper than an actual railway even if it's incapable of doing everything that a true railway can. As such it obviously appeals to all those in this country who are happy for public transport to be provided as cheaply as possible with little or no thought as to the overall quality of the service it provides.

 

[Magdalia]

I think the best place to use tram trains would be in Cambridge and have them run to Newmarket, and then up to Ely by reinstating the curve at Newmarket. And that would run onto a greater Cambridge tram network, which we know they are pursuing.

There's no proposal for a Greater Cambridge Tram Network (apart from some crayonistas). Trams through the old centre require a tunnel which is not financially viable, and possibly not geologically viable either as it would need to go under the River Cam. The proposal currently on the table is an expanded bus network funded from a congestion charge.

Tram Trains in Cambridge could work with converting the busways into tram routes and using the railway as a faster route through the centre.

Trams would need to operate at 25kV A/C to use the railway from Cambridge North. There's no prospect of more tracks because that would require another bridge over the River Cam.

Ipswich could pretty much be treated differently as it branches off halfway through

The issue usually forgotten with the Ipswich branch is what to do about Laundry Lane level crossing.

Trams in Cambridge won't happen.

 

[YorksLad12]

Which Old Road is that?

Poorly worded by me. Via the Midland's "Old Road" through Masborough, then on to Doncaster.

 

[sleepy_hollow]

... Tram-train in reality is a solution to a somewhat niche problem. Its popularity among some public transport supporters has a lot to do with it being nominally cheaper than an actual railway even if it's incapable of doing everything that a true railway can. As such it obviously appeals to all those in this country who are happy for public transport to be provided as cheaply as possible with little or no thought as to the overall quality of the service it provides.

Although, presumably, whether or not any given tram-train is cheaper than any give tram or train it would always be cheaper if not fitted for dual running.