Has the UK preservation scene gone too far?

[kylemore]

The Jacobite has a turntable at one end only. The Black 5s run ok in reverse

Even better, do you think a regular steam tourist train on the waverley line would be viable? Melrose with the abbey and Abbotsford etc would make a nice day out for tourists from edinburgh with afternoon tea served on the return leg.

 

[Bittern]

Too far? Heck no! I don't think it's gone far enough.

Recently in the preservation scene, there's been an evolution. I'm sure you all know who I mean as it is none other than 60163 Tornado herself. We're going past the restoration of old locos and building brand new ones! This can only continue until we see a small fleet of new build locos for the "preserved" scene.

As for the lines themselves, different lines mean more to some than others. Some may have wanted it reopened as a heritage railway because they experienced that line in it's BR life, or because they wanted to reopen a railway and this was the best option. Them ore stock and locos they get to use on that railway, the more appealing it is to different people, which equals more money for the railway to grow and expand and to appeal to even more people!

The fact is, the 37s are a major part of this.

Enthusiasts love them! Diesel enthusiasts scream for them while many steam enthusiasts (myself included) have an admiration for them and have no issues with our beauties giving way to these monsters. They draw in the enthusiasts, so they draw in the money. Of course, the same can be said for many diesel classes, concluding the Deltic, the peaks, the 26s and 27s. People love these things.

What I think would be an interesting idea is to link some preserved lines into a network of heritage railways working together. In the unfortunate event of the GCR's unification plan going up in steam (which of course I hope it doesn't), we need some stamping ground for steam engines as operating them on Network Rail becomes increasingly difficult. It's just a pity though that many heritage railways are nowhere near each other, but as many heritage lines continue to expand their railways, so must the idea of preservation expand, and I'm hoping a result of this -in the very far future- is some link up of heritage lines.

Despite my fears mentioned earlier in another thread, I think it's safe to say that railway preservation has a lot of steam in it yet.
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or any locos or carriages built in 1960s.

92220 Evening Star was built in the 60s and she was to be planned for preservation before she was even built.

 

[Spagnoletti]

This can only continue until we see a small fleet of new build locos for the "preserved" scene.

It will only continue while the projects are funded. Given the state of the economy many of these projects may have to slow down actual work and concentrate on raising money until they can fund the next section of the project. I think it is by no means a certainty that these projects will complete any time soon.

Them ore stock and locos they get to use on that railway, the more appealing it is to different people, which equals more money for the railway to grow and expand and to appeal to even more people!

I disagree. The enthusiast market accounts for a tiny proportion of the turnover of preserved lines, most people want to see steam trains, and they're not too fussy about specific locos and stock.

The fact is, the 37s are a major part of this.

Enthusiasts love them! Diesel enthusiasts scream for them while many steam enthusiasts (myself included) have an admiration for them and have no issues with our beauties giving way to these monsters. They draw in the enthusiasts, so they draw in the money. Of course, the same can be said for many diesel classes, concluding the Deltic, the peaks, the 26s and 27s. People love these things.

See above, diesel enthusiasts are a yet tinier part of the overall revenue picture. No-one does diesel pres because there's money in it, we do it because we're a bit obsessed and making the books balance is a real challenge.

What I think would be an interesting idea is to link some preserved lines into a network of heritage railways working together. In the unfortunate event of the GCR's unification plan going up in steam (which of course I hope it doesn't), we need some stamping ground for steam engines as operating them on Network Rail becomes increasingly difficult. It's just a pity though that many heritage railways are nowhere near each other, but as many heritage lines continue to expand their railways, so must the idea of preservation expand, and I'm hoping a result of this -in the very far future- is some link up of heritage lines.

You seem to be suggesting physical connections but rightly point out most lines are distant from one another, so that seems to prevent that... The cost of transporting locos is a big factor in putting together a business case for a loco move for a guest spot at a gala for instance.
Actually extending lines so they link up? Except in a couple of well known cases surely that's an impossibility.

 

[Mvann]

Diesels an DMUs have there uses. Kids actually like the 1st generation DMUs because they can see out the front window (as long as the driver doesn't shut the blinds.)

 

[Bittern]

I disagree. The enthusiast market accounts for a tiny proportion of the turnover of preserved lines, most people want to see steam trains, and they're not too fussy about specific locos and stock.

Tiny, yet significant. I have long argued the point you mentioned in the past, yet the Diesels turn in quite a lot. The 37s do bring in the enthusiasts who, despite being a tiny number, do add to the money of the railways. Yes it's a small amount, but surely doing without the enthusiasts would do the railways more harm than good.

See above, diesel enthusiasts are a yet tinier part of the overall revenue picture. No-one does diesel pres because there's money in it, we do it because we're a bit obsessed and making the books balance is a real challenge.

Wether there's an "obsession" or not isn't the issue. Look at the diesel galas - they're all reported as successful events. Again, despite being a small number, they do add money to the railways. Yes, it's a small amount, but it's money none the less.

You seem to be suggesting physical connections but rightly point out most lines are distant from one another, so that seems to prevent that... The cost of transporting locos is a big factor in putting together a business case for a loco move for a guest spot at a gala for instance.
Actually extending lines so they link up? Except in a couple of well known cases surely that's an impossibility.

Nowhere did I say it was realistic or going to happen. I said I'd like to see it happen as it would give steam somewhere else to turn to in the event of another Steam ban on the mainline.

 

[euandufftown]

i am euandufftown and i think that preservation railways needs to be recognised as tourist attraction places. i am an active member of britains most northerly preserved railway keith & dufftown railway and we do well in my opinion in attracting visitors from local places as wellas people from the other side of the world. if visitors have come whatever area to visit a railway they will be looking for somewhere to eat when they leave and possibly more. so they have helped the local economy as well. it is a firm belief of mine that if a railway such as ours or any other serves 2 or more staions that railway should get goverment funding to assist in community transport services. if any railway can take 50 cars off the public roads the in my opinion it has done a great job for easing british congestion. what are the thoughts of the forum members. by the way this my first few lines as i have just joined. so hi to you all.

 

[oldrailbug]

I understand where Ian is coming from but my personal opinion is that you cant have to many preserved railways, as for the sidings being jammed with rolling stock and locos I guess the same applies, you just cant have to many spare parts and things to restore.

With all the people that patronise preserved railways I think the organisations have to take a long term view of the railway, example is all the Class 37s that have been kept, in a few years they will be scrounging for spare parts so I say save as many as possible, great loco and worth running for as long as possible after all the 1960/70s diesels will be the future of many preserved railways because steam will become to expensive to keep running.

 

[60163]

Suck all the money out of Permiership Football and give it to the preserved railways.

It'll be interesting to see what eventually happens to 92s, 90s, 66s and 70s.

 

[j0hn0]

Charities can operate in a commercial way by creating a subsiduary of that charity and the necessary paperwork. I work for Which? and this is the commercial arm of The Consumers Association, a charity.

There is nowt stopping (charity) heritage lines operating commercially, they just need the business and legal know-how in order to not get stung for tax

 

[E&W Lucas]

the 1960/70s diesels will be the future of many preserved railways because steam will become to expensive to keep running.

But they won't. No steam = no passengers, as the general public won't patronise a diesel hauled service, in the same numbers that they will a steam one.

If anything, it will be easier to keep steam in service, rather than the far more complex first generation diesels. It's often far easier to manufacture/ substitute a component for a steam loco, due to the inherent simplicity of steam technology. A vintage diesel may need a specific relay, etc. that is no longer manufactured, and cannot easily be produced.

 

[fsmr]

Coal is much worse than both petrol or diesel and the former tends to have a fair amount of sulphur in (eventually becoming acid rain). I do not preserve engines so I do not know if they have to meet modern emissions standards or whether they have grandfather rights to run as they did when operation. Plus I can't see the engines being very efficient (coal was replaced for a reason)

I do like the sight of coal and it does suit a preserved railway far more than a diesel though! I would like to see connections to the main line (such as at Paignton)

Hey we are recycling wood from millions of year old welsh trees
How cool is that

 

[Crimson_Quiff]

I would say yes and no, really.

In terms of pres lines, the more then merrier I say. This gives people the opportunity to visit a line nearer to where they live. For instance, with me, my nearest preserved railway is the Ribble Steam Railway and the East Lancs Railway being the nearest 'big' pres line. But there is the proposal of reopening the Poulton-Le-Fylde to Fleetwood line for preservation. So this would give me a third line to visit near to where I live! As well as the far but not so far railways like the Keighley & Worth Valley and the Embsay & Bolton Abbey railways.
As I say, the more the merrier. Considering loco-hauled stuff (as far as the mainline is concerned is now more or less confined to railtours) pres lines help me and I expect many others to get their loco-hauled fixes!

The bit where I would say 'okay lads, that's enough' is preserving locos. Now, despite I am a Class 37 fan, I would say that we have enough in pres now! The only 'tractor' I would like to see running again is my 'beast' 37/4, which was 407 'Blackpool Tower'. But then that would be it for me!
With the amount of 37s in pres, it just goes to show how popular they are (regardless of the groups of enthusiasts out there who are anti-37).

It's a pity that you get all these locos being preserved and I feel, IMO, it overshadows the unique locos in pres (i.e. D5705, D8232, 89001 etc etc). I would love to see the CoBo and Class 15 running again

 

[Sidmouth34010]

The big issue facing our preserved railways is the loss of engineering in the the UK

It was interesting to read a piece in the SVR WMNL in which they were saying that there is limited capability for one off drop forgings now in the UK . So an engine has sat idle for 4-5 months waiting for a slot for a part to be made.

There must be a logic to create one super works for the overhaul of heritage traction (Steam and Diesel ) with all of the core engineering competences on site

At some point preservation is going to actively have to start building new boilers en masse . The current (and i mean this nicely and no offence is intended to any of the fine railway engineering companies) cottage industry really does need to come together and change it's mode of operation

 

[nferguso]

There must be a logic to create one super works for the overhaul of heritage traction (Steam and Diesel ) with all of the core engineering competences on site

At some point preservation is going to actively have to start building new boilers en masse . The current (and i mean this nicely and no offence is intended to any of the fine railway engineering companies) cottage industry really does need to come together and change it's mode of operation

Nice idea but it's not going to happen. Who is going to take on the risk for this enterprise??

A more likely scenario would be that an existing engineering company spots a gap in the market and offers its services to the heritage traction market. Don't be surprised if that company is not necessarily on these shores.