Haymarket to Dalmeny electrification

[hwl]

Whats also lacking now is any visibility on the rolling stock strategy and even an order today probably wouldn't realise anything for testing for at least three years let alone service introduction so no real urgency to get the wires up on any route that doesn't allow existing stock to be used.

3 years gives several years a sensible amount of time to started on:

1. The problems structures that need work to get clearances needed for electrification (e.g. so all the bridges in one area aren't closed at once)
2. Vegetation clearance
3. Starting at the feeder and substation locations
4. Starting on the piles in areas where there is high certainty on the design
5. Junctions/overruns of the existing electrified network.

 

[92002]

Perhaps that why 769s are being brought up to scratch looking for work.

Whats also lacking now is any visibility on the rolling stock strategy and even an order today probably wouldn't realise anything for testing for at least three years let alone service introduction so no real urgency to get the wires up on any route that doesn't allow existing stock to be used.

 

[EastFifer]

Looks like a fair bit of activity at the Edinburgh Airport compound in recent weeks.

 

[snowball]

Nice to have a bit of good news!

 

[Waverleystu]

How much work was done at the start? When I travelled on the line a few months ago there was some piling work carried out

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Nice to have a bit of good news!

Indeed- even if it is only small progress.

 

[chuff chuff]

Small progress indeed,there appears to be some small metalwork delivered to the compound at Turnhouse.Seems to be more drop tubes added and some insulators added as well.

 

[A330Alex]

Is anyone aware of how far the completed OLE foundations stretch? There’s a decent section from Gateway north but I’m not sure if anywhere else was started/completed.

It’ll be amusing if they complete the project to the initial December 2024 after all.

 

[EastFifer]

The sign is up, it’s official…!

 

[QueensCurve]

The sign is up, it’s official…!

Decarbonisation, not electrification!

 

[najaB]

Decarbonisation, not electrification!

Other than electrification, what decarbonisation opportunities are there between Haymarket and Dalmeny?

 

[D6130]

Other than electrification, what decarbonisation opportunities are there between Haymarket and Dalmeny?

Closing the airport?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Absolutely fantastic news.

Other than electrification, what decarbonisation opportunities are there between Haymarket and Dalmeny?

No extra Grid Feeder needed either, so cost should not be too bad either - one would have hoped. Electrification is the only sensible decarbonisation option.

 

[snowball]

It's called decarbonisation because it is not continuous electrification of the whole Fife circle or to Perth or Dundee.

 

[A330Alex]

Interesting that it specifically mentions Perth and Dundee rather than just the existing Fife electrification project name. Potentially some level of expanded scope?

 

[snowball]

Interesting that it’s specifically mentions Perth and Dundee rather than just the existing Fife electrification project name. Potentially some level of expanded scope?

It's never been entirely clear whether the proposed partial electrification centred on Thornton is or isn't expected to be adequate to run BEMUs to Perth and Dundee via Ladybank.

 

[92002]

Interesting that it specifically mentions Perth and Dundee rather than just the existing Fife electrification project name. Potentially some level of expanded scope?

Fife electrification will form a part of the East section of Aberdeen to the Central Belt. However a solution to the Kirkcaldy part will need to include a certain tunnel that could cost lots of cash to get through. Even worse go around. Maybe the immediate solution is to electrify the Dunfermline branch till a solution comes on stream

 

[EastFifer]

Interesting that it specifically mentions Perth and Dundee rather than just the existing Fife electrification project name. Potentially some level of expanded scope?

It’s remarkable that nobody really knows the true details of the project now. I.e. Dundee/Perth. Those were never in the original plans. You can search online about and still be none the wiser.
They’ve built a new compound at Turnhouse but nobody knows when the work will start either… what’s the big secret?

 

[najaB]

It’s remarkable that nobody really knows the true details of the project now. I.e. Dundee/Perth. Those were never in the original plans.

That depends very much on what you mean by the original plans. It's been known for quite a while now that the intention is to continue the wires from Dunblane to Perth and onwards to Dundee, and from Thornton northwards.

See this thread for more info: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/scottish-electrification-updates-discussion.90420/

 

[A330Alex]

It’s remarkable that nobody really knows the true details of the project now. I.e. Dundee/Perth. Those were never in the original plans. You can search online about and still be none the wiser.
They’ve built a new compound at Turnhouse but nobody knows when the work will start either… what’s the big secret?

The welcome news of work resuming here could potentially be used by Transport Scotland to sugar-coat grim reading in the refreshed Decarbonisation Action Plan. Unfortunately, until that's published we really have no idea of what the state of play is. It's clearly changed substantially with the current capital funding environment.

Combining Aberdeen - Dunblane electrification, Aberdeen - Central Belt signalling/capacity improvements and Fife electrification schemes into a single much larger project would presumably offer cost efficiencies (if to the detriment of project timelines).

 

[EastFifer]

That depends very much on what you mean by the original plans. It's been known for quite a while now that the intention is to continue the wires from Dunblane to Perth and onwards to Dundee, and from Thornton northwards.

See this thread for more info: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/scottish-electrification-updates-discussion.90420/

I always thought the Haymarket to Ladybank, partial electrification plans were the original plans…
The thread you put up hasn’t had a comment since 2020…

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I would prefer cost efficiencies even to the detriment of timeline.

 

[najaB]

The thread you put up hasn’t had a comment since 2020…

No, but many of threads linked from it have.

 

[snowball]

The current thread on Dunblane to Aberdeen electrification is here:

Dunblane - Perth - Dundee - Aberdeen electrification updates

I think this is a significant enough development to deserve a thread of its own. A short while ago Marty82 posted, in the thread "Potential rail improvements around Aberdeen and North East Scotland", this link to a planning application by Network Rail to Aberdeen City Council...

www.railforums.co.uk

It's currently closed by the mods but no doubt they will agree to reopen it when anybody has any news to post.

It was created in May 2022, at roughly the same time as several other Scottish electrification threads, when a lot seemed to be happening and before the money ran out.

 

[EastFifer]

The main question is when is the Haymarket to Dalmeny work going to start up again?
There must be some Network Rail/SPL Powerlines workers in this thread…

 

[najaB]

There must be some Network Rail/SPL Powerlines workers in this thread…

There very well may be, but I suspect their employers' social media policies will limit what they can say if they want to continue working there!

 

[EastFifer]

I don’t understand why it’s such a big secret. ‍♂️

 

[Trainbike46]

I don’t understand why it’s such a big secret. ‍

well, last time some people had a meltdwon over the lines closing over some holidays to allow the works, and that lead to the minister giving in and delaying the works so if I was involved I'd keep it hidden until it's too late to cancel tbh (I have absolutely no clue if this is what's happening, I'm not involved in the project)

 

[CdBrux]

Absolutely fantastic news.

No extra Grid Feeder needed either, so cost should not be too bad either - one would have hoped. Electrification is the only sensible decarbonisation option.

even considering UK marginal electricity supply is LNG imported from middle east? I'm sure better but also by nowhere near as much as people think. UK will still need gas for some time, better to at least get more from the North Sea for far fewer emissions than imported LNG. Also (though marginal) make sure batteries are charged overnight especially when surplus power available

 

[Trainbike46]

even considering UK marginal electricity supply is LNG imported from middle east? I'm sure better but also by nowhere near as much as people think. UK will still need gas for some time, better to at least get more from the North Sea for far fewer emissions than imported LNG. Also (though marginal) make sure batteries are charged overnight especially when surplus power available

there's so much incorrect about this, an incomplete list:
- The vast majority of UK gas comes from UK and Norwegian fields (~50% UK production, ~33% Norwegian production), with LNG from the middle east and the US being relatively minor, no matter what it is used for.
- The grid will get greener than it is now every year (due to more renewables and new nuclear coming online), so grid carbon intensity today isn't an accurate depiction of the carbon intensity of an electrified railway in a few years, it will be lower
- Both the Tories and Labour have promised fossil-fuel-free electricity production in the medium term (labour by 2030, the conservatives by 2035)
- New gas projects take many years to come online - anything newly licenced now is unlikely to be in production before 2035
- the marginal electricity isn't always gas, it can in fact be renewables (it's quite often wind in Scotland)
- the emissions intensity of marginal electricity is a flawed concept for many analyses, including this one. Average carbon intensity is more suitable, ideally using a short timeframe (e.g. half-hour blocks). If you (or anyone else) want to discuss this point in detail please start a new thread and quote this post, it is definitely off-topic here


If you (or anyone else) want to discuss these point in detail please start a new thread and quote this post, it is definitely off-topic here

Especially in Scotland, where this project is, the emissions intensity of electricity is very low, and it will only continue to drop during the life of the infrastructure.