HeartOFWales - Jcns with main line network & late running trains

[70014IronDuke]

Put another way: what are the track arrangements on the HoW at Morlais Jcn (southern end) and Craven Arms (nothern end)?

Example: I see today the 2M08 11.45 ex-Swansea to Shrewsbury was held at Llangennech for 14 minutes before going onto the HoW at Morlais Jcn.

I haven't checked, but I've seen similar before, so presume this is for a southbound train needing to clear the single-line section. Ditto, similar waits at Craven Arms for trains needing to enter the HoW.

Does this mean, then, that the Swansea District line and - more importantly - the Marches line are blocked at times with HoW trains being held for late running HoW trains to clear the single-track sections, or are there loops where the waiting HoW trains can be held?

If no loops, it must be a real operating headache for control as to whether they should let a HoW train out if the know it's going to be held up, surely? Or am I imagining a problem here that doesn't exist?

(I have done the southern section of the HoW, but it was so long ago I've forgotten all about it. Never done the northern section, only the Marches line.)

 

[Lucy1501]

At the Southern end there's a rather long single line section from Morlais Junction through to Llandeilo where there is a passing loop. There is no loops whatsoever. It can take just under half an hour for a train to clear this - contrary to what some believe there is not a loop at Pantyfynnon signal box. It would be alot better to hold a passenger train at Llangennech in a station than let it proceed to Morlais Junction.

At Craven Arms trains cross from the Down line from Shrewsbury to the Up Line for the Heart of Wales Line Junction. There is a goods loop just before this which passenger trains aren't able to use, so unless its a freight it will be blocking the down line.

With the frequency of trains on the Heart of Wales Line I very much doubt that it regularly causes issues.

 

[bleeder4]

At least there is that second crossover at the junction at Craven Arms now. Before that was installed, Down trains from Shrewsbury heading to HoW had to cross over to the Up before Craven Arms station and head through the station on the Up.

 

[30907]

Put another way: what are the track arrangements on the HoW at Morlais Jcn (southern end) and Craven Arms (nothern end)?

Example: I see today the 2M08 11.45 ex-Swansea to Shrewsbury was held at Llangennech for 14 minutes before going onto the HoW at Morlais Jcn.

I haven't checked, but I've seen similar before, so presume this is for a southbound train needing to clear the single-line section. Ditto, similar waits at Craven Arms for trains needing to enter the HoW.

Does this mean, then, that the Swansea District line and - more importantly - the Marches line are blocked at times with HoW trains being held for late running HoW trains to clear the single-track sections, or are there loops where the waiting HoW trains can be held?

If no loops, it must be a real operating headache for control as to whether they should let a HoW train out if the know it's going to be held up, surely? Or am I imagining a problem here that doesn't exist?

(I have done the southern section of the HoW, but it was so long ago I've forgotten all about it. Never done the northern section, only the Marches line.)

There are no loops. As you say, Craven Arms is potentially the bigger problem ( though at least the crossover is in the right place now. Fortunately there aren't too many tight margins (except on Saturdays!).

 

[DelW]

It's rather curious that at the southern end, the north <> east connection (Hendy loop) is still double track despite hardly any services using it. **
Had the double track been retained for the south <> north (actually southwest <> northeast) side of the triangle, HoWL trains could have waited clear of the District line.

The old maps on NLS even show that it was once a flying junction, with the southbound line from Pontaddulais towards Llangennech curving eastward and passing under the District line embankment. That alignment can still be seen on Google satellite view.

** Edit - see post 8 stating that this has now been singled.

 

[30907]

Had the double track been retained for the south <> north (actually southwest <> northeast) side of the triangle, HoWL trains could have waited clear of the District line.

The old maps on NLS even show that it was once a flying junction, with the southbound line from Pontaddulais towards Llangennech curving eastward and passing under the District line embankment. That alignment can still be seen on Google satellite view.

Probably part of the reason for removing it - it would have been overkill for the 4tpd introduced when Swansea Victoria closed, and I imagine most of the coal went eastwards from Pontarddulais

 

[70014IronDuke]

At the Southern end there's a rather long single line section from Morlais Junction through to Llandeilo where there is a passing loop. There is no loops whatsoever. It can take just under half an hour for a train to clear this - contrary to what some believe there is not a loop at Pantyfynnon signal box. It would be alot better to hold a passenger train at Llangennech in a station than let it proceed to Morlais Junction.

Yes - I understand this. What I was asking is if a train is held at Llangennech, does it block the 'main' up Swansea District line - which presumably it does. Not such a problem there, I assume, as at the Craven Arms end of things, as the SDL is not heavily used, as opposed to the Marches.

It's rather curious that at the southern end, the north <> east connection (Hendy loop) is still double track despite hardly any services using it. Had the double track been retained for the south <> north (actually southwest <> northeast) side of the triangle, HoWL trains could have waited clear of the District line.

An anachronism today, but perhaps at the time of rationalisation (when was that?) the north-east connection was used for a fair bit of mineral traffic?

 

[louis97]

It's rather curious that at the southern end, the north <> east connection (Hendy loop) is still double track despite hardly any services using it.

It's single track now, it was singled when the area was re-controlled to a new workstation at Port Talbot.

 

[DelW]

An anachronism today, but perhaps at the time of rationalisation (when was that?) the north-east connection was used for a fair bit of mineral traffic?

I'm sure you're right that it was the coal traffic that justified its retention as two tracks when others were removed.

It's single track now, it was singled when the area was re-controlled to a new workstation at Port Talbot.

Thanks for the correction, my Quail is from 2018 so apologies for the out of date information. Earlier post now duly edited.