Help: Chiltern railways fare evasion prosecution email

[Sillytraveler2]

Hi,
When I was an undergrad from first to second year I purchased numerous child ticket. At the time I was very young and ignorant, I had no idea that this was illegal and did not even think about the consequences my actions might have on others and I know this is no excuse and what I did was wrong. I do feel overwhelmingly guilty and on edge. A few years ago an inspector caught me on my journey and took down my details and said that I will receive a letter. I have now received an NIP email stating that unless I have any mitigating circumstances or satisfactory explanation, Chiltern aim to take me to court and prosecute me.

I'm willing to pay any fine or settlement fee but having a criminal record would ruin my future and my career prospects.

Over the last few years I have purchased various train tickets and ensured they were the correct tickets and paid for all in full, I have definitely learnt my lesson!

I would genuinely appreciate any advice as this incident has definitely triggered some of my past mental health issues and I'm not doing too well emotionally.

 

[AlterEgo]

Do they make reference to specific offences? Summary-only offences such as Railway Bylaws or Regulation of Railways Act offences have a six month time limit to lay papers before the court, which makes your case well out of time if it is one of those.

Do not respond to the correspondence. Please post a copy of the letter here with your details redacted. This is important - it is possible your case cannot be prosecuted and Chiltern have simply run out of time.

 

[SargeNpton]

Two years seems to be a very long time before contacting you. Did you receive any previous correspondence? If so, did you reply to it or ignore it?

 

[Haywain]

Two years seems to be a very long time before contacting you. Did you receive any previous correspondence? If so, did you reply to it or ignore it?

Not only is it a long time, it would seem very unusual for the first correspondence to be by email.

 

[Sillytraveler2]

Two years seems to be a very long time before contacting you. Did you receive any previous correspondence? If so, did you reply to it or ignore it?

No I double checked the mail and my email for months after the incident just in case and heard nothing. This is the first correspondence I've had from them.

Not only is it a long time, it would seem very unusual for the first correspondence to be by email.

Thank you all so much for your quick replies, it means so much to me especially right now! I thought it might have been a scam at first but the email is from [email protected] and they have details of the incident from two years ago. I haven't had any previous correspondence from them.

 

[AlterEgo]

No I double checked the mail and my email for months after the incident just in case and heard nothing. This is the first correspondence I've had from them.


Thank you all so much for your quick replies, it means so much to me especially right now! I thought it might have been a scam at first but the email is from [email protected] and they have details of the incident from two years ago. I haven't had any previous correspondence from them.



Thank you so much for your help! I've attached a screenshot to my original post, they mentioned the fraud act of 2006, I'm very clueless about these offences, would my case still be well out of time?

Fraud is triable either way and not subject to the 6 month bar, but Chiltern almost certainly won’t prosecute it as a fraud. This is difficult to prove to a criminal standard and Chiltern use a private company who only prosecute very elementary railway-specific, summary-only offences.

What they’re trying to do is get you to settle out of court for a large sum of money. My recommendation is to ignore the correspondence, which is your right to do. Prosecuting it as fraud is a near-zero chance and they’re mentioning it - in a very roundabout way! - to make you scared. We’ve never heard of Chiltern or their agents ever privately prosecuting a fraud.

They have been extraordinarily feckless and lazy with this one, leaving it two years. Tough luck for them!

 

[WesternLancer]

Contrary to other posts I am not sure I would suggest just ignoring this in the hope it will go away - after all they have clearly trawled this out of an old file of cases and re-activated it, perhaps as it was during the covid period and they had reduced resources to purse it at the time, but who knows why - esp given what you have said about past mental health issues and the risk of this triggering worries on your part I suspect there is a risk that this might stay nagging at the back of your mind which I doubt you want. You clearly also have evidence that supports the issues you had at the time (the docs you refer to) which is often not the case when people contact us and say they have such issues. That won't prevent them thinking that was a reason to evade fares on over 100 occasions, but it does indicate the seriousness of this for you personally I'm sure.

I have to say though that it is naïve to have been smart enough to secure a place at university, but to persistently buy child tickets and not think it was wrong / potentially illegal, or that there may be no consequences. Since you could probably have saved much of the money you saved by buying child tickets by buying and using a Railcard to reduce your fares instead.

Given what you say about future risk to your career, and the impact on your mental health, I would suggest you give consideration to consulting a solicitor on this one for their advice. You could ring a few to get quotes off them, or if you have a solicitor that your family have used in the past, and who they think is good, or if you have ever used one, you could ask them.

They might give you a helpful assessment of what could happen and the options available to you.

And if they did go on to issue a Magistrates Court summons, you may certainly want to engage a solicitor at that stage.

Obv you might want to wait a couple of days to weigh up different advice on here before deciding what you might best opt to do.

 

[Adam Williams]

Contrary to other posts I am not sure I would suggest just ignoring this in the hope it will go away - after all they have clearly trawled this out of an old file of cases and re-activated it, perhaps as it was during the covid period and they had reduced resources to purse it at the time, but who knows why - esp given what you have said about past mental health issues and the risk of this triggering worries on your part I suspect there is a risk that this might stay nagging at the back of your mind which I doubt you want. You clearly also have evidence that supports the issues you had at the time (the docs you refer to) which is often not the case when people contact us and say they have such issues. That won't prevent them thinking that was a reason to evade fares on over 100 occasions, but it does indicate the seriousness of this for you personally I'm sure.

I agree with this take.

Contrary to some belief here, Chiltern have prosecuted under the Fraud Act before and in at least one case (a while back) the passenger was convicted of fraud by false representation. The sheer volume of journeys involved in this case mean that I would really be wary of just ignoring this correspondence and hoping it goes away.

 

[Mike395]

I too would caution against ignoring this one - Andrew Chesson is head of revenue protection in-house at Chiltern, not a TIL (who deal with most of the 'standard' bylaw/RoRA prosecutions on Chiltern's behalf) representative. So for him to make contact directly makes me suspect they think they've got enough evidence to proceed under the Fraud Act.

 

[island]

I too would caution against ignoring this one - Andrew Chesson is head of revenue protection in-house at Chiltern, not a TIL (who deal with most of the 'standard' bylaw/RoRA prosecutions on Chiltern's behalf) representative. So for him to make contact directly makes me suspect they think they've got enough evidence to proceed under the Fraud Act.

I very much doubt he is making contact directly; this will have been written by a staff member and sent in his name. You are correct however that something being sent by Chiltern rather than TIL is out of the ordinary And I agree that this should not be ignored.

 

[Sillytraveler2]

Contrary to other posts I am not sure I would suggest just ignoring this in the hope it will go away - after all they have clearly trawled this out of an old file of cases and re-activated it, perhaps as it was during the covid period and they had reduced resources to purse it at the time, but who knows why - esp given what you have said about past mental health issues and the risk of this triggering worries on your part I suspect there is a risk that this might stay nagging at the back of your mind which I doubt you want. You clearly also have evidence that supports the issues you had at the time (the docs you refer to) which is often not the case when people contact us and say they have such issues. That won't prevent them thinking that was a reason to evade fares on over 100 occasions, but it does indicate the seriousness of this for you personally I'm sure.

I have to say though that it is naïve to have been smart enough to secure a place at university, but to persistently buy child tickets and not think it was wrong / potentially illegal, or that there may be no consequences. Since you could probably have saved much of the money you saved by buying child tickets by buying and using a Railcard to reduce your fares instead.

Given what you say about future risk to your career, and the impact on your mental health, I would suggest you give consideration to consulting a solicitor on this one for their advice. You could ring a few to get quotes off them, or if you have a solicitor that your family have used in the past, and who they think is good, or if you have ever used one, you could ask them.

They might give you a helpful assessment of what could happen and the options available to you.

And if they did go on to issue a Magistrates Court summons, you may certainly want to engage a solicitor at that stage.

Obv you might want to wait a couple of days to weigh up different advice on here before deciding what you might best opt to do.

Thank you so much for all of your advice!
I definitely want to reply to them and even try and settle any fines outside of court for my own sanity. I haven't been able to eat or sleep for three days since I've recieved the email.

I've calculated an estimate for the total amount I owe for the tickets and I have enough savings to pay for it plus any administrative costs. Do you think I should email them back and offer this?

I agree, this repeated offence and my ignorance of it was very stupid of me at the time. I've always been book smart but not the best when it came to logical decision making or street smarts and at the time I had a lot going on in my head which definitely affected how clouded my mind was. I definitely have immense regret for my past infringements and know that nothing excuses my numerous mistakes.

I know if it goes to court there is a chance that I might get a criminal record, is there any chance of me going to prison?

 

[fandroid]

I very much doubt he is making contact directly; this will have been written by a staff member and sent in his name. You are correct however that something being sent by Chiltern rather than TIL is out of the ordinary.

The letter is very specific too. It includes all the possible previous violations, which would amount to a considerable sum of money potentially owed to Chiltern. I think a solicitor's help is most definitely required in the circumstances, asap

 

[Sillytraveler2]

I very much doubt he is making contact directly; this will have been written by a staff member and sent in his name. You are correct however that something being sent by Chiltern rather than TIL is out of the ordinary And I agree that this should not be ignored.

Yes the email was from the generic fraud@chiltren email not his personal, I also believe it was written by chiltren staff. I will definitely reply to it and try and settle for my own sanity.
Is there any way to guage how much the maximum fine or settlement fee would be? Do you think Chiltren would accept the amount I owe them + administration fees they've had in dealing with this issue?

Also is there any chance that they might not accept settling this outside of court?

 

[AlterEgo]

In light of the other posts I have changed my position and also think @Sillytraveler2 should consult a solicitor before making any comment on the allegations. Dealing with this unrepresented is not wise.

 

[WesternLancer]

I very much doubt he is making contact directly; this will have been written by a staff member and sent in his name. You are correct however that something being sent by Chiltern rather than TIL is out of the ordinary And I agree that this should not be ignored.

Yes, obv it is going out in the name of the head of section, but I would tend to think that a decision to pursue what might be seen as long out of time cases (whether it be a handful or a large trawl) you would have expected to have been OK'd by a senior team member/manager. Combined with the fact that we know from general experiences on here that Chiltern take the the firmest line on Revenue Protection / fare evasion of all the Train companies that people ask about (which of course also probably results in Chiltern Cases coming up on here proportionality more to start with perhaps).

The OP could calculate how much in fares they have avoided (or how the Railway will see it) - if all the fares were Birmingham Moor Street to London (the case cited) then the Anytime Single Fare of £84.60 x 113 is a substantial sum. Potentially a sum worth Chiltern putting time and effort into getting.

The train operator concerned, the sum involved and the wider issues for the OP mean they need to take this very seriously, as I get the sense they are doing. Hence my suggestion about professional legal advice.

 

[Mike395]

Yes the email was from the generic fraud@chiltren email not his personal, I also believe it was written by chiltren staff. I will definitely reply to it and try and settle for my own sanity.
Is there any way to guage how much the maximum fine or settlement fee would be? Do you think Chiltren would accept the amount I owe them + administration fees they've had in dealing with this issue?

Also is there any chance that they might not accept settling this outside of court?

I personally think it's very much 50/50 at this point whether they'd consider an out of court settlement, and personally I'd get legal advice before even a reply offering one (as the offer could possibly be seen as an admission of guilt if not carefully worded).

If they did agree, that being said, you'd need to budget for, at a minimum, 113x the difference between the child and adult fares, and a substantial admin fee. I'd be surprised if this was lower than a high three-figure (or possibly even a four-figure) sum.

 

[AlterEgo]

Yes, obv it is going out in the name of the head of section, but I would tend to think that a decision to pursue what might be seen as long out of time cases (whether it be a handful or a large trawl) you would have expected to have been OK'd by a senior team member/manager.

I wonder if it's likely we will see more of these hit the forum in the near future?

 

[UserM]

Yes the email was from the generic fraud@chiltren email not his personal, I also believe it was written by chiltren staff. I will definitely reply to it and try and settle for my own sanity.
Is there any way to guage how much the maximum fine or settlement fee would be? Do you think Chiltren would accept the amount I owe them + administration fees they've had in dealing with this issue?

Also is there any chance that they might not accept settling this outside of court?

I think you are not taking head of the advice that is being offered to you here. This is not just the normal low level fare evasion we see.

I very much concur with other posters that have stated to seek legal advice. This is a serious matter that could have large and long reaching consequences for you and the rest of your life. I suspect that they may have enough evidence to hand your file over to the BTP (thus CPS) or indeed launch such a prosecution themselves, under the Fraud Act 2006.

So DO NOT MAKE ANY FURTHER CONTACT with Chiltern. Until you have received qualified legal advice.

If you do not do this, the forum can realistically not be of any help to you.

In order to find solicitors a good place to start is the law society website or indeed just a Google. You need a criminal defence solicitor in your case.

 

[WesternLancer]

Yes the email was from the generic fraud@chiltren email not his personal, I also believe it was written by chiltren staff. I will definitely reply to it and try and settle for my own sanity.
Is there any way to guage how much the maximum fine or settlement fee would be? Do you think Chiltren would accept the amount I owe them + administration fees they've had in dealing with this issue?

Also is there any chance that they might not accept settling this outside of court?

Just read your follow up

- do not reply without getting advice (even if that advice is simply to get people on here to comment on a draft reply you intend to send if you feel you can't afford to pay a solicitor to help)

- They have an incentive to settle out of court to some extent (they get to keep all the money basically) - so there is a possibility, but no gaurantees

- You are looking at nearly £10k in evaded fares depending on the journeys - ie if they are all Brum - London (risk is they will almost certainly not count the child tickets you bought as 'part payment'), on top of that will be their costs of investigating (prob another £100-£200 maybe). This is why a solicitors fee (people on here who feed back on what they pay if they involve solicitors, which is not that many, tend to cite fees in the region of £500 to £900) is not a big proportion of what you could be looking at. Hopefully you have an idea of the journeys concerned. They must be able to see it from your ticket buying record from the time.

I know this isn't good news and I don't want to worry you more than necessary.

Also if I have it correctly - the problem with Fraud type convictions is it's not just regarded as a low level conviction that would be spent after a period of time (tho that probably happens) it's that various things that you will need in life (credit / bank loans / mortgage etc) I think (happy to be corrected) get much more expensive or difficult to obtain. The costs of that over time to you would be more than paying a solicitor a fee, however tricky that might seem now. Also some types of jobs (things related to finance especially, would presumably be closed off to someone with a fraud conviction). I'm happy for others to correct me if they think I am wrong or being over the top.

 

[Sillytraveler2]

Thank you so much for all your help and advice, this forum has truly been a lifesaver. I always travelled at the cheapest/ most off-peak times and full price tickets at the time for these were £35-40. Would these factors impact how much they would settle for?

 

[6Gman]

Thank you so much for all your help and advice, this forum has truly been a lifesaver!
The tickets I purchased at the time were all birmingham london. Although it was 113 journeys it was actually around 56 return tickets as I always bought them return. I always travelled at the cheapest/ most off-peak times and full price tickets at the time for these were £35-40. Would these factors impact how much they would settle for?

My understanding is that the normal practice is to calculate on the basis of the full anytime fares. So I'm afraid it is likely to be significantly higher than the £35-40 figure.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you so much for all your help and advice, this forum has truly been a lifesaver!
The tickets I purchased at the time were all birmingham london. Although it was 113 journeys it was actually around 56 return tickets as I always bought them return. I always travelled at the cheapest/ most off-peak times and full price tickets at the time for these were £35-40. Would these factors impact how much they would settle for?

Basically no - they ignore those types of tickets which they regard as discounted when calculating settlements - they would typically ask for Anytime Single Fares or Anytime Return Fares (which are almost always 2x and Anytime Single) I'm afraid. Hence the figure I quoted.

At best you might be charged the Anytime fare at the date concerned (ie a bit lower in terms of inflation related increases over the last 2 years) - and the problem is that in such settlements you are not in a good place to 'negotiate' since by virtue of asking for one you have pretty much as good as admitted you committed the offence.

I suppose if you did engage a solicitor you are basically looking to pay them to

- advise you on what extent you can ignore this, or how best to engage with it
- engage with Chiltern in a way that does not incriminate you, or incriminate any further than Chiltern may have evidence of / evidence that would stand up in court
- seek to achieve a settlement that involves paying as low as is possible for them to achieve

If you were seeking quotes from solicitors this is the sort of thing to ask them I would think.

 

[Sillytraveler2]

I will definitely try and find a good solicitor and seek legal advice before replying.

 

[WesternLancer]

I will definitely try and find a good solicitor and seek legal advice before replying.

I have no connection with them nor have ever used them but from memory 2 firms that have been mentioned on here in the past are as below - but I am sure you can ask firms local to you if they have relevant experience or could represent you. Or if you have any insurance policies you could check if they include any free legal help as part of the policy maybe

Manak Solicitors

Fare Evasion Solicitors | Kent &London | Manak Solicitors

Manak Solicitors: Skilled legal defence for fare evasion cases. Rely on our experienced team to protect your rights, challenge penalties, and guide you through the process.

manaksolicitors.co.uk

Penman Sedgwick Solicitors

Fare Evasion - Penman Sedgwick

penmansedgwick.com

 

[Gloster]

A small comment: in #5 the email address says chiltren: r and e reversed from the correct spelling. Is this a typing mistake or grounds for suspicion?

 

[methecooldude]

A small comment: in #5 the email address says chiltren: r and e reversed from the correct spelling. Is this a typing mistake or grounds for suspicion?

Looks to be a typo on the part of the OP. If you look at the screenshot provided in #1, the address is correct

 

[gray1404]

I just want to echo some of the remarks made here. Do not incriminate yourself if and when you respond to the train company. We have seen Chiltern handling a lot more of their own casework recently. We have also seen them prosecute under the Fraud Act previously.

It is questionable whether or not they will have enough evidence however to be able to secure a conviction without a confession from yourself. I am not convinced they will be able to demonstrate solely on your ticket purchasing history that you knew what you were doing was wrong, unless you admitted such to the inspector on the day you were stopped and he recorded this, and they certainly will not be able to demonstrate that you would not have delivered up the correct fare on demand.

HOWEVER these are both moot points and, given we have seen this company prosecute under the fraud act before, I would strongly recommend that you obtain legal advice. I personally would be wanting my solicitor to approach them with a view of securing and out of court settlement without any admission of guilt if possible.

Solicitors that specialise in railway law are extremely expensive and I think for a case such as this a decent solicitor who practices criminal law should suffice.

 

[furlong]

As others said, you need professional advice so as not to inadvertently make your situation worse while trying to reach a settlement. You should ask the solicitor to look up the case of Peter Barnett back in 2010 who (from memory) successfully got a court to reduce the amount of compensation he had to pay (after conviction) to Chiltern so as to ensure any settlement is calculated on the correct basis and you don't end up paying more than necessary. (In short, for each otherwise-valid ticket you held, I think you owe them the difference between the child and adult price of that same ticket.) A prosecution this amount of time after the incident if they have nothing more recent could face a number of hurdles if you have a good lawyer so try to focus on achieving a settlement.

 

[WesternLancer]

I will definitely try and find a good solicitor and seek legal advice before replying.

If you feel able to do so, it might be helpful to others if you could update the thread in due course with how you get on.

If Chiltern Trains or any other companies are digging out old cases from some years ago that they have now decided to pursue, it may be the case that other people will be looking for advice on what to do so your own experiences could be of help to them.

You may of course want to wait until matters are concluded before doing that, which would be understandable.

 

[Sillytraveler2]

Hello everyone,
thank you all for your help! You guys have been my lifeline.
I spoke with a fare evasion solicitor, she was kind enough to give me a quick phone consultation free of charge!
She said to send them an email, apologise, explain that I was not in the right state of mind and that I purchased the correct ticket over the last few years and offer to pay for every ticket plus reasonable administrative costs. Hopefully they will agree to an out of court settlement. I did not include in my email whether or not I was aware, just that I was not in the right state of mind. She said at the end of the day, it would be beneficial for both parties to do an out of court settlement and that they just want their money.