Hemel Hempstead to Old Street (via Euston) with TfL pass

[WizzKidd]

Hi all,

I was hoping for some advice and clarification.

My brother works for TFL and is entitled to free TFL travel on Zones 1 through 6. A perk of his position is that he is allowed to register a family member who is "living with him" of which that family member will also receive the benefits of free travel too. I am his chosen family member who "lives with him"

With the above said and to cut to the chase... I have a new job in Old Street (Zone 1), however I live in Hemel Hempstead (which is a few stops outside the TFL network). My thinking is to pay for travel from Hemel Hempstead train station (London Midland) to the closest Zone 6 Boundary, and then let my "Freedom Pass" (I think that's what its called) take care of the rest of the journey.

My question is if this can be done, and what's the best and easiest way, if not what is the least expensive way taking the freedom pass into consideration?

I thought Watford was a Zone 6 station, but there is conflicting information about this, and there are several Watford stations. The Hemel Hempstead train line stops at "Watford Junction".

I'm really confused, and just accepted a new job on the basis that i've "discounted" my own travel.

All advice is gratefully appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[nicobobinus]

I'm open to correction on whether all TfL passes are issued with this validity, but I have previously owned a TfL nominee oyster card and that was valid out to zone 9 and Watford Junction (not actually in any zone, but included as an outlying non-zone station for TfL ticketing purposes) in order to cover the extremities of the Met and London Overground, which are after all TfL services. It was also valid on London Midland services between Euston and WFJ.

Presuming yours has the same validity, you should be able to do it with a Hemel - WFJ ticket and your pass so long as the train calls at Watford. I made a number of trips from London to Bucks/Beds this way without event.

(ION, I would strip the speechmarks and smiley out of the 2nd paragraph - the penalties for that sort of thing tend to come down on the staff member, and can be quite serious)

 

[WizzKidd]

I'm open to correction on whether all TfL passes are issued with this validity, but I have previously owned a TfL nominee oyster card and that was valid out to zone 9 and Watford Junction (not actually in any zone, but included as an outlying non-zone station for TfL ticketing purposes) in order to cover the extremities of the Met and London Overground, which are after all TfL services. It was also valid on London Midland services between Euston and WFJ.

Presuming yours has the same validity, you should be able to do it with a Hemel - WFJ ticket and your pass so long as the train calls at Watford. I made a number of trips from London to Bucks/Beds this way without event.

(ION, I would strip the speechmarks and smiley out of the 2nd paragraph - the penalties for that sort of thing tend to come down on the staff member, and can be quite serious)

Ohh, that sounds promising. So if the "pass" carries the same validity as the one you're suggesting, you reckon I'd only need to pay for Hemel to Watford Junction, and then the "pass" will deal with the rest? -or- would the "pass" (given it is the same as yours), be able to cover all travel direct from Hemel through to Old Street?

Can anyone else clarify?

 

[bb21]

Ohh, that sounds promising. So if the "pass" carries the same validity as the one you're suggesting, you reckon I'd only need to pay for Hemel to Watford Junction, and then the "pass" will deal with the rest? -or- would the "pass" (given it is the same as yours), be able to cover all travel direct from Hemel through to Old Street?

Can anyone else clarify?

It will not cover you from Hemel. It covers you from Watford Junction.

 

[WizzKidd]

It will not cover you from Hemel. It covers you from Watford Junction.

Thank you.

If the worse case scenario is that the pass is valid for Zones 1 to 6, what would be the cheapest/best route to get to an actual "tfl 1-6 zone" from Hemel (LM)?

 

[yorkie]

Do you have the pass yet? What exactly is written on it? What T&Cs have you been given?

 

[Mojo]

It isn't a Freedom Pass, and it isn't a Zone 1-6 pass either.

Assuming he works for TfL and not a private bus operator, then it is a pass that is valid for free travel on all TfL Rail services (Underground, Overground, Tramlink and DLR), as well as on London Buses. It is also valid on National Rail:

Euston to Watford Jcn
Marylebone to Amersham
Moorgate to Finsbury Park
Fenchurch St to Upminster
Liverpool St to Stratford
Kentish Town to London Bridge/Elephant

but on no NR other routes.​

 

[WizzKidd]

Do you have the pass yet? What exactly is written on it? What T&Cs have you been given?

I've not yet received it, so i'm unsure just yet.

It isn't a Freedom Pass, and it isn't a Zone 1-6 pass either.

Assuming he works for TfL and not a private bus operator, then it is a pass that is valid for free travel on all TfL Rail services (Underground, Overground, Tramlink and DLR), as well as on London Buses. It is also valid on National Rail:

Euston to Watford Jcn
Marylebone to Amersham
Moorgate to Finsbury Park
Fenchurch St to Upminster
Liverpool St to Stratford
Kentish Town to London Bridge/Elephant

but on no NR other routes.​

This sounds promising Mojo, thanks. Fingers crossed its what you suggest, which would imply Watford Jcn to Euston is covered. Any idea what the name of this pass is called?

Sticking with the possible positive outcome that I can get Watford inclusive on the travel, my last question would be to ask: What is the best discounted rate I can get when getting a Hemel Hempstead to Watford Junction (London Midland) train (both slow and fast trains stop at Watford), taking into consideration these many different saver cards and anything similar? Travel time will be peak (7am) and from Monday to Friday?

Thanks.

 

[IanD]

Hi all,

I was hoping for some advice and clarification.

My brother works for TFL and is entitled to free TFL travel on Zones 1 through 6. A perk of his position is that he is allowed to register a family member who is "living with him" of which that family member will also receive the benefits of free travel too. I am his chosen family member who "lives with him"

With the above said and to cut to the chase... I have a new job in Old Street (Zone 1), however I live in Hemel Hempstead (which is a few stops outside the TFL network). My thinking is to pay for travel from Hemel Hempstead train station (London Midland) to the closest Zone 6 Boundary, and then let my "Freedom Pass" (I think that's what its called) take care of the rest of the journey.

My question is if this can be done, and what's the best and easiest way, if not what is the least expensive way taking the freedom pass into consideration?

I thought Watford was a Zone 6 station, but there is conflicting information about this, and there are several Watford stations. The Hemel Hempstead train line stops at "Watford Junction".

I'm really confused, and just accepted a new job on the basis that i've "discounted" my own travel.

All advice is gratefully appreciated.

Thanks.

What ticket does your brother use to get from your house to work? Maybe you should also buy one of those. Or you (and your brother) would be better off if you bought your own ticket all the way to work judging by the winks and quotes in your original post.

 

[barrykas]

I'm not sure of the rules regarding TfL Nominee passes, but it's possible that it MAY be restricted to Leisure travel only, as per NR travel facilities issued to spouses/partners/dependents, in which case using it as part of a commute would result in the pass being withdrawn if caught.

 

[IanD]

I'm really confused, and just accepted a new job on the basis that i've "discounted" my own travel.

You haven't discounted your own travel. Tfl and ultimately all taxpayers are subsidising your travel to the tune of £3,168 per year.

 

[jon0844]

Clearly from the first post with the smiley, you're not actually living with your brother, correct? Does that not then mean you're not entitled to free travel at all? And your brother also runs the risk of getting into some trouble for claiming you do live with him?

I don't feel much sympathy to fare evaders, and surely that applies to staff (or in this case, family of staff) fiddling things too?

Sorry if I've got the wrong end of the stick here, but what I read seems like an abuse of the rules as you've written them.

 

[WizzKidd]

Thank you to those who have helped. I was prepared for a few digs given the circumstances of my original post (quotes and winkys intentionally included), and I am sorry to have offended anyone. I am a very above-board guy as contradictive as it may sound. However everyone has financial difficulties, some worse than others, and no matter how law abiding they may be, certain things lead to measures that may be against their own beliefs and against what they'd ever thought they'd find themselves doing.

My story can be frowned on, and excused by some and not others - I do not expect you to accept my choices, and you are entitled to your own opinions. My brother and I used to live together when I lived in London, hence why I have ID and proof of address and so on and I have since changed these details with the relevant companies (hence my explanation that I am law abiding - somewhat)... very contradicting ey!?

Apologies and thanks herewith.

 

[greatkingrat]

I'm not sure of the rules regarding TfL Nominee passes, but it's possible that it MAY be restricted to Leisure travel only, as per NR travel facilities issued to spouses/partners/dependents, in which case using it as part of a commute would result in the pass being withdrawn if caught.

Out of interest, how can any such restriction be enforced? What is the definition of Leisure travel? If I go to the pub after work, I could argue that my return journey home is now Pub->Home rather than Work->Home and therefore for leisure reasons.

 

[district]

Out of interest, how can any such restriction be enforced? What is the definition of Leisure travel? If I go to the pub after work, I could argue that my return journey home is now Pub->Home rather than Work->Home and therefore for leisure reasons.

I guess if you made the exact same journeys at the same time every day then perhaps you might be caught out. But a difficult one!

 

[nicobobinus]

Thank you to those who have helped. I was prepared for a few digs given the circumstances of my original post (quotes and winkys intentionally included), and I am sorry to have offended anyone. I am a very above-board guy as contradictive as it may sound. However everyone has financial difficulties, some worse than others, and no matter how law abiding they may be, certain things lead to measures that may be against their own beliefs and against what they'd ever thought they'd find themselves doing.

My story can be frowned on, and excused by some and not others - I do not expect you to accept my choices, and you are entitled to your own opinions. My brother and I used to live together when I lived in London, hence why I have ID and proof of address and so on and I have since changed these details with the relevant companies (hence my explanation that I am law abiding - somewhat)... very contradicting ey!?

Apologies and thanks herewith.

I'd think seriously about the wisdom of going on a public forum and openly admitting using your pass in this way along with details of your travel patterns. Oyster keeps a record of journeys made and stores it centrally, and London Underground does use that information along with CCTV to catch out serial fraudulent ticket users. All the right person would need to do is look at this thread and flag up the 'Green' oyster on the central system making that journey in central London on a daily basis - the one with your name registered to it and your face on the front. It's another story as to whether they'll bother with someone doing a shifty on staff passes with registered addresses compared to, say, someone 'book-ending' with two season tickets that might be losing TfL £1000+ a year. But you are leaving yourself exposed to problems if you are caught, and your brother would be likely to face disciplinary action via his workplace as well.

That's my tuppence on it anyway.

 

[jon0844]

Of all the offences talked about on here, I'd agree that it's not that serious an issue. If someone working for TfL gets free travel and can nominate someone else, it doesn't matter to me if they live at the same place.

But if those are the rules, and you're also living elsewhere with ID that says otherwise, then I do have a problem - along with anyone trying to say it's okay when it absolutely would not be okay if it was a member of the public misusing their season ticket/railcard etc.

It really is a 'one rule for us' bit that I have a problem with here.

 

[IanD]

It really is a 'one rule for us' bit that I have a problem with here.

It's the "Look at me I'm being clever by committing fraud, inciting my brother to commit fraud and boasting about it" and then expecting everyone to applaud and pat him/her on the back that I have a problem with.

Why not just post a straightforward question like "What's the cheapest way to get from Hemel Hempstead to a point where my TFL nominee pass becomes valid?"

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Any irregularities with passes involving TfL staff renders them subject to summary dismissal. Even if they have no knowledge of their nominee using a pass in breach of any rules it is their responsibility to emphasise the rules to the nominee.
London Transport's Bakerloo Line used to operate out to Watford Junction and there was a depot at Croxley which is why they had free travel between Queens Park and Watford Junction. The Euston to Queens Park section was added in the late eighties as a result of a reciprocal agreement with Silverlink allowing their staff free travel between Queens Park and Paddington on the Bakerloo.

 

[Nym]

Deleted; already covered.

 

[Mojo]

I'm not sure of the rules regarding TfL Nominee passes, but it's possible that it MAY be restricted to Leisure travel only, as per NR travel facilities issued to spouses/partners/dependents, in which case using it as part of a commute would result in the pass being withdrawn if caught.

It isn't restricted to leisure travel only.

 

[Deerfold]

I'd think seriously about the wisdom of going on a public forum and openly admitting using your pass in this way along with details of your travel patterns.

Especially as the OP has narrowed it down to a card that's been applied for recently. There won't be that many of those.

 

[Nym]

Especially as the OP has narrowed it down to a card that's been applied for recently. There won't be that many of those.

He's also provided an approximate exit time at Euston and damn near confirmed that it will not "Tap In" at any gates North of Euston...

One could also easily find a pattern where the two cards are used in very different locations in the morning, even if it is tapped in at WFJ on one of the validators...

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Slightly O/T - aren't nominee passes supposed to be declared for tax reasons ?

 

[Nym]

Slightly O/T - aren't nominee passes supposed to be declared for tax reasons ?

Why would you need to, and if you did, what would you declare the value of it as? You can't exactly do it as a Z123456789WG season ticket as it only covers about 35% of that. It also doesn't technically cost the taxpayer anything other than the cost of the plastic, if anything saving money in administration costs for either PTAC cards or more people having higher value season claims...

 

[IanD]

Why would you need to...

Isn't it a benefit in kind for the person claiming it on their nominee's behalf? If you can't put a value on it then I'm sure the taxman would assign a value to it.

Also, it may technically cost nothing but it leads to loss of revenue, particularly in the case of the OP who is not entitled to the pass so should be buying his/her own tickets.

 

[Deerfold]

Slightly O/T - aren't nominee passes supposed to be declared for tax reasons ?

No, I'm led to believe there was a court case between LT and the taxman some years ago (as you can tell by it being pre-TfL) which determined there was a negligible cost to LT to provide the benefit so there was no tax due.

 

[Nym]

Isn't it a benefit in kind for the person claiming it on their nominee's behalf? If you can't put a value on it then I'm sure the taxman would assign a value to it.

Also, it may technically cost nothing but it leads to loss of revenue, particularly in the case of the OP who is not entitled to the pass so should be buying his/her own tickets.

But in this case, the OP and the OP's brother (the staff member) are liable to prosicution and/or summary dismissal...