Heysham Port line new stations/improvement potential

[Farigiraf]

On a cold, February afternoon I was exploring Google Maps and had an idea:

The Morecambe line travels through mostly urban area, yet only has three stations, of which one has only two trains a day and is relatively pointless for locals.
While central and eastern Morecambe are served quite well by Morecambe and Bare Lane, southern parts seem quite cut-off. (Is the bus service around there any good?)

On Wikipedia I read about a former 2nd line into Morecambe via what seems like mostly industrial estate, so wouldn't be very feasible to reopen - however, what surprised me was that there never was a station for Heysham town, besides Middleton Road Bridge Halt which served the southern end of Heysham (and was about a mile away from the village of Middleton), although it would be too close to Heysham Port station to be worth considering.
Three locations I have found for potential are Meldon Road (Closest you could probably get to central Heysham without disrupting the residential area), Oxcliffe Road, which would serve northern Heysham, for which there is already a path down to the railway (see attached image) and Westgate, which would would serve Morecambe Stadium, some Caravan/Camping sites, and the West End district.

This would of course mean that the current Morecambe services could extend to either station(s), with the Port services continuing as 2tpd to connect with the ferry.
What do you think?

The pathway down to the railway by Oxcliffe Road

 

[FlyingPotato]

On a cold, February afternoon I was exploring Google Maps and had an idea:

The Morecambe travels through mostly urban area, yet only has three stations, of which one has only two trains a day and is relatively pointless for locals.
While central and eastern Morecambe are served quite well by Morecambe and Bare Lane, southern parts seem quite cut-off. (Is the bus service around there any good?)

On Wikipedia I read about a former 2nd line into Morecambe via what seems like mostly industrial estate, so wouldn't be very feasible to reopen - however, what surprised me was that there never was a station for Heysham town, besides Middleton Road Bridge Halt which served the Southern end of Heysham (and was about a mile away from the village of Middleton), although it would be too close to Heysham Port station to be worth considering.
Three locations I have found for potential are Meldon Road (Closest you could probably get to central Heysham without disrupting the residential area), Oxcliffe Road, which would serve northern Heysham, for which there is already a path down to the railway (see attached image) and Westgate, which would would serve Morecambe Stadium, some Caravan/Camping sites, and the West End district.

This would of course mean that the current Morecambe services could extend to either station(s), with the Port services continuing as 2tpd to connect with the ferry.
What do you think?
View attachment 152988
The pathway down to the railway by Oxcliffe Road

I have often done the same

The bus service is decent with the 1, 2x and a few others.


A station could work, but first I'd make the Morecambe train 2ph, as it is more reliable to get the bus with 1ph trains

You could do meldon road

But I'd probably also extend the unnamed road off of Oxcliffe road to make a carpark

Now if I was having fun and had loads of money without anyone to say no

I'd make a station at the university/ Galgate to make a bay metro, but that's getting a bit too excited

 

[randyrippley]

Been suggested several times before.
In addition it would make sense to put stops in at York Bridge (where historically there was a station) and Broadway.
But you've then still got the problem that for many people the bus is still going to be more convenient.

Something else that needs looking at in this context is getting visitors to/from the Eden Project when it opens.
Park and Ride bus from J34?
Or Park and Ride train from either Carnforth? or the Heysham end of the Bay Gateway?
Either way you're going to need some kind of shuttle service, probably electric/battery in some form

 

[AlastairFraser]

I have often done the same

The bus service is decent with the 1, 2x and a few others.


A station could work, but first I'd make the Morecambe train 2ph, as it is more reliable to get the bus with 1ph trains

You could do meldon road

But I'd probably also extend the unnamed road off of Oxcliffe road to make a carpark

Now if I was having fun and had loads of money without anyone to say no

I'd make a station at the university/ Galgate to make a bay metro, but that's getting a bit too excited

Tram-train would be possible - electrify both the sections to Morecambe and Heysham with a new Morecambe avoiding curve at the old junction for the Lancaster Green Ayre to Morecambe line, then establish a service running fast to Bare Lane as now.

Split 4tph to Morecambe Central there calling at basic tram-style stops at Bare Broadway and Lancaster Rd Morecambe, and then 2tph to Heysham Port calling at Bare Broadway, Lancaster Rd Morecambe, Out Moss Lane, Morecambe FC, Oxcliffe Rd, Meldon Rd and Middleton Rd.

The issue then would be capacity on the WCML section from Lancaster to Morecambe South Jcn. You could 3 track some of the section, but I'm not sure you could fit it on Carlisle Bridge and the approaches.

 

[randyrippley]

And to answer a couple of queries
The Middleton Rd halt was a constructors stop while the railway and harbour were being built, never a real station. Though it could be a location for the park and ride shuttle to the Eden Project

Bus services for south Heysham aren't as good as they used to be, but during the day are basically
Route 1 3x hour to Lancaster via Morecambe
Route 1A 3x hour to Lancaster via Morecambe
Route 2x 2 per hour to Lancaster via Bay Gateway
Route 100 2 per hour to Lancaster via promenade & Bare
Route 5 1 per hour to Carnforth
Route 755 3 per day to Windermere
Route 6 variants along Regent Rd: 2 per hour to Lancaster, 2 per hour circular around the Morecambe estates

In the evening 1, 2x and 755 are cut, while the 6 drops to hourly to Lancaster.
The remaining routes run until around 23:00-00:00
Not easy for the trains to replace

 

[AlastairFraser]

Something else that needs looking at in this context is getting visitors to/from the Eden Project when it opens.
Park and Ride bus from J34?
Or Park and Ride train from either Carnforth? or the Heysham end of the Bay Gateway?
Either way you're going to need some kind of shuttle service, probably electric/battery in some form

Reckon that's going to be P and R from J34 at Halton P and R.
Simple, room for additional decks of parking at Halton, and only a quick 15 min run down the Bay Gateway. Visitors on the train could get a through ticket onto the 1/100 bus from Lancaster station.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Reckon that's going to be P and R from J34 at Halton P and R.
Simple, room for additional decks of parking at Halton, and only a quick 15 min run down the Bay Gateway. Visitors on the train could get a through ticket onto the 1/100 bus from Lancaster station.

Why wouldn't visitors by train just travel to Morecambe by train?

 

[AlastairFraser]

And to answer a couple of queries
The Middleton Rd halt was a constructors stop while the railway and harbour were being built, never a real station. Though it could be a location for the park and ride shuttle to the Eden Project

Bus services for south Heysham aren't as good as they used to be, but during the day are basically
Route 1 3x hour to Lancaster via Morecambe
Route 1A 3x hour to Lancaster via Morecambe
Route 2x 2 per hour to Lancaster via Bay Gateway
Route 100 2 per hour to Lancaster via promenade & Bare
Route 5 1 per hour to Carnforth
Route 755 3 per day to Windermere
Route 6 variants along Regent Rd: 2 per hour to Lancaster, 2 per hour circular around the Morecambe estates

In the evening 1, 2x and 755 are cut, while the 6 drops to hourly to Lancaster.
The remaining routes run until around 23:00-00:00
Not easy for the trains to replace

Especially since the best route to serve most of Morecambe more frequently was the Little North Western route.
What you could do for a small investment is a local integrated ticketing scheme (perhaps an ITSO-based smartcard) that allowed people to use either the train or bus in the area for the same price - a zone including Morecambe, Bare Lane, Lancaster, Carnforth, Heysham Port, Silverdale and Wennington stations and all buses in the area.
I realise it's quite wide, but it would have the potential to make quite a good return on the small investment required.
Perhaps you could call the smartcard the Cockle?

Why wouldn't visitors by train just travel to Morecambe by train?

Because the east west transport options across the Pennines are quite limited to that part of Lancs, so visitors from Yorkshire and the North East particularly would be more likely to drive there.
Especially given the frequency to Morecambe is rubbish for the size of the conurbation, and there's no cheap way of improving it.

Knowing that a majority of people from those areas are going to choose to drive at least most of the way, you can keep the bulk of the traffic out of Morecambe town centre by providing a shuttle bus every 15 mins from Halton P and R, for a modest investment.

 

[randyrippley]

Why wouldn't visitors by train just travel to Morecambe by train?

They could
But most will come by car

Reckon that's going to be P and R from J34 at Halton P and R.
Simple, room for additional decks of parking at Halton, and only a quick 15 min run down the Bay Gateway. Visitors on the train could get a through ticket onto the 1/100 bus from Lancaster station.

The 1 and 100 don't go to Lancaster station, and anyway to get to the station you have to circumnavigate the one-way system.
You can't expect passengers to walk between train and bus stations
And don't forget we've already had one case of a driver taking a double decker to the station and losing the roof along the quay on the way back

 

[AlastairFraser]

The 1 and 100 don't go to Lancaster station, and anyway to get to the station you have to circumnavigate the one-way system.
You can't expect passengers to walk between train and bus stations
And don't forget we've already had one case of a driver taking a double decker to the station and losing the roof along the quay on the way back

I know they don't and that it is a very awkward route, especially in typical Lancs weather walking on the slippery cobbles, but could one of the routes be rerouted past the station as a single decker?

 

[randyrippley]

Especially since the best route to serve most of Morecambe more frequently was the Little North Western route.
What you could do for a small investment is a local integrated ticketing scheme (perhaps an ITSO-based smartcard) that allowed people to use either the train or bus in the area for the same price - a zone including Morecambe, Bare Lane, Lancaster, Carnforth, Heysham Port, Silverdale and Wennington stations and all buses in the area.
I realise it's quite wide, but it would have the potential to make quite a good return on the small investment required.
Perhaps you could call the smartcard the Cockle?

The annoying this is that actually existed for the whole of Lancashire from around 1979 for a few years, until deregulation killed it off.
Lancs County Council were quite farsighted

 

[AlastairFraser]

The annoying this is that actually existed for the whole of Lancashire from around 1979 for a few years, until deregulation killed it off.
Lancs County Council were quite farsighted

A great shame given the quality services provided by local PTEs in other nearby populous counties too.
I feel a resurrected scheme would be most easy to implement in this part of Lancs than anywhere else though.

 

[randyrippley]

I know they don't and that it is a very awkward route, especially in typical Lancs weather walking on the slippery cobbles, but could one of the routes be rerouted past the station as a single decker?

Yes, there is already a University service which does that, but it returns along the quay to avoid traffic - and that bridge I mentioned earlier is there. Stagecoach have an aversion to running ANY buses under bridges in Lancaster, they've lost too many roofs. Where possible they close a route rather than run a bus that way, just in case someone forgets and takes a decker out. Skerton bridge is the worst one - I can think of three deroofings there, and now Stagecoach simply avoid it

 

[AlastairFraser]

Yes, there is already a University service which does that, but it returns along the quay to avoid traffic - and that bridge I mentioned earlier is there. Stagecoach have an aversion to running ANY buses under bridges in Lancaster, they've lost too many roofs. Where possible they close a route rather than run a bus that way, just in case someone forgets and takes a decker out. Skerton bridge is the worst one - I can think of three deroofings there, and now Stagecoach simply avoid it

Sounds like a competence issue more than anything.
Perhaps Kirkby Lonsdale Coaches would run a P&R service from Halton, and a shuttle from Lancaster station direct connecting with trains for the Eden Project?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sounds like a competence issue more than anything.
Perhaps Kirkby Lonsdale Coaches would run a P&R service from Halton, and a shuttle from Lancaster station direct connecting with trains for the Eden Project?

There will be a P&R from Halton.

Why duplicate the trains from Lancaster?

 

[AlastairFraser]

There will be a P&R from Halton.

Why duplicate the trains from Lancaster?

Because Northern cancel services pretty frequently without warning in Lancs and because you could offer better connections.

 

[randyrippley]

A great shame given the quality services provided by local PTEs in other nearby populous counties too.
I feel a resurrected scheme would be most easy to implement in this part of Lancs than anywhere else though.

It would be a start if the Lakes Day Ranger could be extended to cover Lancaster and Morecambe - it's valid on the 755 and Stagecoach routes from Barrow and Kendal, but not Morecambe. Something similar combining Stagecoach's "Day Bay Rider" plus local trains would be enough

Sounds like a competence issue more than anything.
Perhaps Kirkby Lonsdale Coaches would run a P&R service from Halton, and a shuttle from Lancaster station direct connecting with trains for the Eden Project?

They do the existing P&R so would be the obvious choice. But the deciding factor there is whether Northern can be kicked into providing a reliable service. If they can, then great. If they can't then a large part of the EP's success will depend on alternative passenger arrangements.

 

[AlastairFraser]

It would be a start if the Lakes Day Ranger could be extended to cover Lancaster and Morecambe - it's valid on the 755 and Stagecoach routes from Barrow and Kendal, but not Morecambe. Something similar combining Stagecoach's "Day Bay Rider" plus local trains would be enough

I think Stagecoach Cumbria and North Lancs would flip at the suggestion of more value for customers unless the price of the ticket went up handsomely, so we'll have to see on that one. Totally agreed on the local ticket though.

They do the existing P&R so would be the obvious choice. But the deciding factor there is whether Northern can be kicked into providing a reliable service. If they can, then great. If they can't then a large part of the EP's success will depend on alternative passenger arrangements.

I reserve judgement on Northern's ability to provide a reliable service to Morecambe.
I think the Eden Project will need a firm frequent connection to parking somewhere near the M6, and Lancaster station for intercity connections.
A couple of P+R/shuttle routes could do that easily and reasonably cheaply.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Because Northern cancel services pretty frequently without warning in Lancs and because you could offer better connections.

Put the money from tendering the bus into improving the train.

Tendering a bus to duplicate a train is nonsensical.

 

[FlyingPotato]

And to answer a couple of queries
The Middleton Rd halt was a constructors stop while the railway and harbour were being built, never a real station. Though it could be a location for the park and ride shuttle to the Eden Project

Bus services for south Heysham aren't as good as they used to be, but during the day are basically
Route 1 3x hour to Lancaster via Morecambe
Route 1A 3x hour to Lancaster via Morecambe
Route 2x 2 per hour to Lancaster via Bay Gateway
Route 100 2 per hour to Lancaster via promenade & Bare
Route 5 1 per hour to Carnforth
Route 755 3 per day to Windermere
Route 6 variants along Regent Rd: 2 per hour to Lancaster, 2 per hour circular around the Morecambe estates

In the evening 1, 2x and 755 are cut, while the 6 drops to hourly to Lancaster.
The remaining routes run until around 23:00-00:00
Not easy for the trains to replace

The 100 only goes as far as Morecambe and if it goes to Heysham it runs as the 2x not the 100

 

[HSTEd]

Are we even sure that the Heysham branch has a long term future?

Nuclear traffic will end within the next decade and I don't think the ferry foot passenger market has that much of a future.

 

[FlyingPotato]

If you ask me, they should cut the Leeds train to terminate in Lancaster

Make the Morecambe line 2ph and then build a Heysham station following that

 

[Farigiraf]

If you ask me, they should cut the Leeds train to terminate in Lancaster

Make the Morecambe line 2ph and then build a Heysham station following that

Currently the Leeds services are only every 2/3 hours; AFAIK the service towards Leeds/Lancaster is hourly but on RTT it looks like there's trains arriving roughly every 30 mins, but with trains leaving at seemingly random times, usually every 40-80 minutes. The whole area definitely needs some service consistency (and improvement of course) with proper bus/train integration so if you miss the train you can take the bus.

 

[randyrippley]

The 100 only goes as far as Morecambe and if it goes to Heysham it runs as the 2x not the 100

But it provides a connection to Lancaster in both directions - as the 2x Morecambe-Heysham-Lancaster and as the 100 Heysham-Morecambe-Lancaster. It does a loop, changing numbers half way round

Are we even sure that the Heysham branch has a long term future?

Nuclear traffic will end within the next decade and I don't think the ferry foot passenger market has that much of a future.

There's renewed talk of Heysham 3. If that happens it will be needed

 

[HSTEd]

There's renewed talk of Heysham 3. If that happens it will be needed

The Heysham site has several problems and previous siting studies have preferred a station further south at the mouth of the River Lune.

Even if Heysham 3 is built it will be a water reactor with on site spent fuel storage, there will be no significant demand for flask traffic.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Put the money from tendering the bus into improving the train.

Tendering a bus to duplicate a train is nonsensical.

The amount of money you need to improve the train service would be stratospheric in comparison to bus tenders, because of the WCML congestion. You'd need to rebuild a bridge that is hundreds of years old and then widen miles of alignment to fit the 3 tracks that you'd need for an improved train service.
Even a tram along the old Little NWR alignment would likely be cheaper, but still a complete different kettle of fish to an ongoing bus subsidy.

In the long term, you may see it a post HS2 Lancaster bypass to take intercity traffic away (perhaps even all services to the north given the current WCML's proximity to Morecambe Bay at Hest Bank making it vulnerable to climate change-induced sea level rise).
Then you'd have the capacity to run more Lancaster to Morecambe locals without serious upgrades to the existing lines, but that's a while off.

The Heysham site has several problems and previous siting studies have preferred a station further south at the mouth of the River Lune.

Even if Heysham 3 is built it will be a water reactor with on site spent fuel storage, there will be no significant demand for flask traffic.

There will be commuting from within the Morecambe Bay area though - if the railway can provide a more frequent service, it could work financially.

 

[randyrippley]

The Heysham site has several problems and previous siting studies have preferred a station further south at the mouth of the River Lune.

Even if Heysham 3 is built it will be a water reactor with on site spent fuel storage, there will be no significant demand for flask traffic.

But assuming it's built most of the materials will come in by rail.
Also much of the material from the demolition of 1 & 2 will leave by rail.

As to the suitability of the site for #3, they change their mind over that almost every year. The discussions over the supposed risk from the fault through the golf course have been nonsensical for years

 

[HSTEd]

But assuming it's built most of the materials will come in by rail.
Also much of the material from the demolition of 1 & 2 will leave by rail.

Most of the material will arrive either by road, or in the case of bulk materials, by sea. The bulk of aggregates, cement and similar material for Hinkley Point C is being delivered by a pier constructed into the Bristol Channel.
Given Heysham is in a far more sheltered location for shipping than Hinkley, I expect that would be repeated.

If the site near the railway line is selected it will be directly adjacent to a complete harbour with breakwater!

As to the suitability of the site for #3, they change their mind over that almost every year. The discussions over the supposed risk from the fault through the golf course have been nonsensical for years

That wasn't the primary reason the site was disqualified, the golf course site may struggle to meet the limitating population density in the most recent editions of the siting rules. The so-called "semi-urban criterion", it's significantly closer to the populated areas of Heysham itself.
Also it has significantly worse access to cooling water because the extant plants are between it and the sea.

 

[randyrippley]

The amount of money you need to improve the train service would be stratospheric in comparison to bus tenders, because of the WCML congestion. You'd need to rebuild a bridge that is hundreds of years old and then widen miles of alignment to fit the 3 tracks that you'd need for an improved train service.
Even a tram along the old Little NWR alignment would likely be cheaper, but still a complete different kettle of fish to an ongoing bus subsidy.

It goes back around thirty years when there was a local press campaign to get improved buses/trams in the area, and the then local Stagecoach head bod told me "give us all the cash in that supposed budget and we'll give you free buses for 50 years"

 

[AlastairFraser]

It goes back around thirty years when there was a local press campaign to get improved buses/trams in the area, and the then local Stagecoach head bod told me "give us all the cash in that supposed budget and we'll give you free buses for 50 years"

A mainly bus based system may have been suitable for the area 30 years ago, but the urban Bay area is over 100k and growing now.
I suspect Stagecoach will try and stave it off a bit longer because it's a cash cow, but a tram line incorporating Lancaster (including the uni), Morecambe and Heysham will become necessary in the decade, especially if the Eden Project North goes ahead.