High Peak Discussion

[florence]

High Peak Buses Announces Withdrawal from 170 Service

High Peak Buses, an independent operator based in the High Peak, regrets to announce that we will no longer be proceeding with plans to operate the 170 service between Bakewell and Chesterfield, originally scheduled to commence on Thursday, 27th March 2025.

It had been our intention to replace the existing Hulleys service which has ceased to operate, ensuring continuity for passengers by serving both Hollymoorside and providing a direct link to Chesterfield Hospital. We had planned to provide local employment opportunities for Hulleys' drivers, with the longer-term vision of operating from Baslow to maintain stable local employment.

Despite being the first operator to be granted short-notice approval by Derbyshire County Council, subsequent approval was also granted to Stagecoach for a competing registration of the service. Stagecoach's version does not align with the existing Hulleys service, omitting key connections such as Hollymoorside and Chesterfield Hospital.

David Brookes, Managing Director of High Peak Buses, expressed his disappointment: "It’s disappointing that it has come to this. The service we had planned was designed to ensure vital community links were maintained, and it’s surprising that a competing registration for a service that does not provide these connections has been granted. The route cannot sustain two operators, and as a local operator, we are not prepared to engage in a bus war with Stagecoach—a company backed by an international investment fund. We regret having no other option but to withdraw our service."

Source: High Peak Facebook page

 

[mattb7tl]

The myth of competition. It is good that this smaller company knows their place in the industry. I think we know from the past that in the event of a bus war predatory pricing and general anti-competitive practices won't be stopped by the competition commission.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The myth of competition. It is good that this smaller company knows their place in the industry. I think we know from the past that in the event of a bus war predatory pricing and general anti-competitive practices won't be stopped by the competition commission.

A bus war on that route would probably just have resulted in both firms pulling off, though. There's not the demand for two routes. There's only just the demand for one.

The Stagecoach version will be a better service for those wanting to travel between Chesterfield and Bakewell - the diversion via Holymoorside adds on a fair bit of time. However it does seem to leave Holymoorside with no service bar a few peak journeys which is surprising - perhaps something will be tendered.

 

[Teapot42]

A bus war on that route would probably just have resulted in both firms pulling off, though. There's not the demand for two routes. There's only just the demand for one.

The Stagecoach version will be a better service for those wanting to travel between Chesterfield and Bakewell - the diversion via Holymoorside adds on a fair bit of time. However it does seem to leave Holymoorside with no service bar a few peak journeys which is surprising - perhaps something will be tendered.

Chatsworth Road would support 2x hourly, and had that until January when Hulleys had to combine the 84 and 170 in their attempt to survive.

A quick look at the timings suggests an 84 from Holymoorside to the Hospital via Spital but not via the railway station could be fitted in pretty much exactly around the 170 to give that frequency. You've only got a few minutes either end recovery, but that's not too different from the 170. I'd hope they (or even Andrews) would give that a go before needing to move to tendering, as this really isn't a route that should need funding. It's main road through a large town for the majority of the route, with only the last 7-8 minutes on one end serving a large village.

 

[plebb11]

Looks like high peak will now operate services 271/272 from Friday 27th march

derbybus.info


New bus companies set to run former Hulleys services from Thursday 27th March The network of bus services previously run by Hulleys of Baslow will now be operated by other local bus companies: • 63 Matlock – Ashover - Clay Cross – Chesterfield by Stagecoach • 110/111 Matlock – Wirksworth - Ashbourne by Ashbourne Community Transport • 170 Bakewell – Chesterfield – by Stagecoach Yorkshire • 172 Matlock – Birchover – Bakewell by Andrews of Tideswell • 173 Bakewell – Tideswell - Bradwell – Castleton by Andrews of Tideswell • 178 Bakewell – Shutts Lane by Andrews of Tideswell • 257 Bakewell – Bamford – Sheffield by Andrews of Tideswell • 271/272 journeys previously operated by Hulleys on the Castleton - Sheffield route will be operated by High Peak Buses from Friday 28th March at the same times.

 

[BusesOfTheNW]

Does anyone here know the reason why 765 & 766 (The two High Peak Skyline versas) are very rarely out on the road? 765 last tracked back in January and 766 last October

 

[florence]

Does anyone here know the reason why 765 & 766 (The two High Peak Skyline versas) are very rarely out on the road? 765 last tracked back in January and 766 last October

Both are away having engine work done.

 

[BusesOfTheNW]

Both are away having engine work done.

Ah ok thank you

 

[richard13]

High Peak have taken over Hulley's journeys on the 271/2 along side First's journeys.
As a stand alone service this looks challenging with the dead mileage to Sheffield and waiting around.

https:/highpeakbuses.com/service-updates/

271 272 Castleton - SheffieldDate: Friday 28th March 2025​

High Peak Steps in to Safeguard Vital Bus Routes

High Peak Buses is pleased to announce that it will be taking over the operation of the 271/272 bus service from the 28th March 2025 ensuring that local residents continue to have access to essential transport links.

This decision comes following the unfortunate closure of Hulley’s of Baslow, which has left uncertainty surrounding the future of the route. Recognising the importance of this service to the community, High Peak Buses has worked closely with local authorities and stakeholders to ensure a smooth transition and minimal disruption for passengers.

The timetable and route will remain unchanged, we will be operating the services as per Hulley's.

 

[Mollman]

High Peak have taken over Hulley's journeys on the 271/2 along side First's journeys.
As a stand alone service this looks challenging with the dead mileage to Sheffield and waiting around.

https:/highpeakbuses.com/service-updates/

Hopefully this is just to meet the short notice introduction and a more efficient timetable will be registered in due course

 

[Dwarfer1979]

Hopefully this is just to meet the short notice introduction and a more efficient timetable will be registered in due course

One bus working starts at Castleton & finishes at Hathersage whilst the 2nd starts/finishes in Sheffield as it stands so isn't as inefficient as all that but there may be some things that could be done. The breaks in Sheffield are useful driver breaks that make the duties work. As First run half the journeys (excluding evenings that they run entirely) it is difficult to make that sort of structural changes to the timetable that would be helpful quickly.

 

[RELL6L]

I think First should hang their heads in shame at not reacting at all to the events at Hulleys and stepping in to run all the 271/272 for a short period at least. High Peak deserve great credit for stepping up and agreeing to run the Hulleys journeys which are not ideal to run standalone, for example the first arrival in Sheffield a few minutes after the first departure and the journeys which Hulleys used to run onto school / college work. First could have found a way to run all these journeys more efficiently by inter-working with other routes at Sheffield. Credit to High Peak for doing this, especially after the 170 experience. I hope they go on to run the full timetable in a more efficient way. A departure from Sheffield between 16.36 and 18.36 would be a great addition!

 

[Teapot42]

A departure from Sheffield between 16.36 and 18.36 would be a great addition!

There was one until very recently. Hulleys dropped it to be able to resource the 6. Would be good to bring it back.

One trouble with this timetable is that the 257 and 272 used to interwork so give better resource utilisation. The last variation of the timetables under Hulleys was far from optimal, being limited by what vehicles and drivers they had available.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I think First should hang their heads in shame at not reacting at all to the events at Hulleys and stepping in to run all the 271/272 for a short period at least. High Peak deserve great credit for stepping up and agreeing to run the Hulleys journeys which are not ideal to run standalone, for example the first arrival in Sheffield a few minutes after the first departure and the journeys which Hulleys used to run onto school / college work. First could have found a way to run all these journeys more efficiently by inter-working with other routes at Sheffield. Credit to High Peak for doing this, especially after the 170 experience. I hope they go on to run the full timetable in a more efficient way. A departure from Sheffield between 16.36 and 18.36 would be a great addition!

Indeed - HP have stepped in at short notice and been far more agile than First. Hopefully, they'll be able to assess the route's viability in the short term as well as come up with a more efficient set of duties (such as that first one out of Sheffield) rather than ones based on the old operating method.

 

[Robertj21a]

Indeed - HP have stepped in at short notice and been far more agile than First. Hopefully, they'll be able to assess the route's viability in the short term as well as come up with a more efficient set of duties (such as that first one out of Sheffield) rather than ones based on the old operating method.

Agreed - and 'agile' is a good term. High Peak, and the whole Centrebus group, often seem to try hard and do the right thing - they don't always succeed but at least they'll make the effort.

 

[mattb7tl]

First is very much an out of touch corporately stagnate company. They are absolutely dreadful at spotting opportunities and even worse at taking opportunities always has been the case but a bonus of that is that an independent was able to gain some ground. I am sure high peak will do a great job.

 

[Trainman40083]

First is very much an out of touch corporately stagnate company. They are absolutely dreadful at spotting opportunities and even worse at taking opportunities always has been the case but a bonus of that is that an independent was able to gain some ground. I am sure high peak will do a great job.

In business that is often the case. Big companies often have to refer decisions up the management chain to the Board. That means smaller companies are more agile, and able to make decisions quicker.

 

[Mollman]

First is very much an out of touch corporately stagnate company. They are absolutely dreadful at spotting opportunities and even worse at taking opportunities always has been the case but a bonus of that is that an independent was able to gain some ground. I am sure high peak will do a great job.

Perhaps they think there is no point in putting the investment in to the extra resources needed given that franchising is on the way

 

[Goldfish62]

Agreed - and 'agile' is a good term. High Peak, and the whole Centrebus group, often seem to try hard and do the right thing - they don't always succeed but at least they'll make the effort.

It's something that independents are often good at, plus Centrebus are of a size that they have the resources act quickly.

That's not to say the large groups can't do likewise. Look at Go South Coast with the collapse of Bournemouth Yellow Buses.

But First Bus - no chance!

 

[AlastairFraser]

I think First should hang their heads in shame at not reacting at all to the events at Hulleys and stepping in to run all the 271/272 for a short period at least. High Peak deserve great credit for stepping up and agreeing to run the Hulleys journeys which are not ideal to run standalone, for example the first arrival in Sheffield a few minutes after the first departure and the journeys which Hulleys used to run onto school / college work. First could have found a way to run all these journeys more efficiently by inter-working with other routes at Sheffield. Credit to High Peak for doing this, especially after the 170 experience. I hope they go on to run the full timetable in a more efficient way. A departure from Sheffield between 16.36 and 18.36 would be a great addition!

Maybe they could extend it over towards Chapel-en-le-Frith to ensure they waste less time running empty from Dove Holes and also connect people into their flagship 199 service (including Manchester Airport)/take people from along the 199 corridor to the Hope Valley and connections into trains towards Sheffield.

 

[daodao]

Maybe they could extend it over towards Chapel-en-le-Frith to ensure they waste less time running empty from Dove Holes and also connect people into their flagship 199 service (including Manchester Airport)/take people from along the 199 corridor to the Hope Valley and connections into trains towards Sheffield.

The Winnats Pass is unsuitable for standard size buses and coaches, so High Peak will need to send buses from their Dove Holes depot to Castleton via Peak Forest and Bradwell. A detour via Chapel would not be worthwhile.

 

[tram21]

The Winnats Pass is unsuitable for standard size buses and coaches, so High Peak will need to send buses from their Dove Holes depot to Castleton via Peak Forest and Bradwell. A detour via Chapel would not be worthwhile.

I mean Peak Sightseer E400s go up it

 

[Killingworth]

I mean Peak Sightseer E400s go up it

And last year one got stuck turning under Mam Tor, blocking the turning circle for half the day!

 

[daodao]

I mean Peak Sightseer E400s go up it

There may be dispensations for scheduled bus services to use it during summer daytimes, but the Winnat's Pass is particularly treacherous in icy weather, and it would not be advisable to send a large bus via it at say 7am on a January morning.

 

[liamf656]

I mean Peak Sightseer E400s go up it

They're barely suitable either!!

 

[stra200]

257c used to go via Winnats on Sundays joining Chapel to Castleton this past Winter, and I'm sure that was a double decker occasionally.
The 62 already (infrequently) links Chapel and Castleton the long way around via Edale.

Would be great to see this link more regular somehow to reduce dependency on the train

 

[AlastairFraser]

The Winnats Pass is unsuitable for standard size buses and coaches, so High Peak will need to send buses from their Dove Holes depot to Castleton via Peak Forest and Bradwell. A detour via Chapel would not be worthwhile.

High Peak will have no issue with this, they've been using the long Citaros on the Skyline 199 for a long while and they navigate the tiny little narrow lanes around Peak Dale with ease.

257c used to go via Winnats on Sundays joining Chapel to Castleton this past Winter, and I'm sure that was a double decker occasionally.
The 62 already (infrequently) links Chapel and Castleton the long way around via Edale.

Would be great to see this link more regular somehow to reduce dependency on the train

Exactly, and High Peak have a better network at the Chapel end to stimulate demand.

 

[mangad]

The Winnats Pass is unsuitable for standard size buses and coaches, so High Peak will need to send buses from their Dove Holes depot to Castleton via Peak Forest and Bradwell. A detour via Chapel would not be worthwhile.

A few years ago I was on a full size coach which was doing a rail replacement service that went up that very pass. So it's doable but I don't know how they did it.

 

[Dwarfer1979]

High Peak will have no issue with this, they've been using the long Citaros on the Skyline 199 for a long while and they navigate the tiny little narrow lanes around Peak Dale with ease.

Exactly, and High Peak have a better network at the Chapel end to stimulate demand.

Yes they will, the reason why the 62 takes the route it does is because the depot didn't want to run Solos up Winnats Pass in the winter and weren't entirely keen in the summer, besides which Winnats Pass is narrower and steeper than anything the 199 goes round. Stagecoach may be happy taking open top deckers round, which are shorter and more maneuverable than a 12-metre sd, in the summer and that is their business but doesn't mean others are happy doing it under different circumstances with different vehicles, timetables & service patterns and I know they get complaints about it as a number were made to High Peak asking us to tell them to stop as the road isn't suitable due to a joint leaflet for the tourist services around Castleton being issued with both operators details on (and they may have confused the bus operator details with the local council).

 

[Hyebone]

And last year one got stuck turning under Mam Tor, blocking the turning circle for half the day!

The driver of that got the rear wheel stuck in a ditch because they misjudged a hole with tall grass inside as being flat. There was a van parked on the turning circle making the turn tighter.