Historical passenger use of the Dore South-West Curve

[70014IronDuke]

Before the closure of the Peak Forest route in 1968 (at which point the Nottingham and St Pancras - Manchester trains began to use it), was the Dore South curve normallly used by passenger trains?

And today, is it classified as a passenger route? If not, what does that entail when late-running Norwich - Liverpool trains get diverted that way to make up time?

 

[30907]

There is nothing timetabled in summer 1958 (LMR).
The route will always have been signalled to passenger standard AFAIK - too short for permissive working!

 

[jfollows]

Nothing in 1963/4 either.
It was in regular passenger use by the "Project Rio" HST services Manchester-London May 2003-September 2004 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midland_Mainline) and was used in earlier days of "Sprinter" services which omitted Sheffield from memory, but these were quickly all rerouted to serve Sheffield.

 

[Magdalia]

Before the closure of the Peak Forest route in 1968 (at which point the Nottingham and St Pancras - Manchester trains began to use it), was the Dore South curve normallly used by passenger trains?

Yes. From 1963 Passenger Services Over Unusual Lines (PSUL) is the source.

BLS - PSUL Document Archive

PSUL Document Archive​

In 1963 the summer Saturdays 0722 Nottingham Midland-Blackpool and 1410 return were booked to use the Dore Curve.

This was a long standing summer Saturday train, though in years up to 1962 the inbound train was a separate set of rolling stock departing Blackpool at 0935.

In the 1958 LMR public timetable (see Timetable World) these appear in Tables 212 and 140. As far as I can tell there were no advertised stops between Chesterfield Midland and Blackpool.

 

[jadmor]

Was the direct Manchester to Derby service before closure significantly faster or more frequent than todays device with a reversal at Sheffield?

 

[jfollows]

Was the direct Manchester to Derby service before closure significantly faster or more frequent than todays device with a reversal at Sheffield?

Faster, less frequent
For example, weekdays
Manchester Central 07:25 - Derby 08:51 3 intermediate stops
08:25 - 10:00 4 stops
09:25 - 10:50 2 stops
10:25 - 11:48 2 stops
12:25 - 13:47 1 stop
14:25 - 15:53 3 stops
15:25 - 17:00 7 stops
16:25 - 17:40 non-stop
16:35 - 19:11 lots of stops plus 30 minutes in Millers Dale
17:25 - 18:47 non-stop
18:00 - 19:32 3 stops
18:35 - 19:58 1 stop
20:00 - 21:55 lots of stops

plus 07:45 - 08/57 pass Derby North Junction Blue Pullman

from the 63-64 timetable

My Dad used the train from Cheadle Heath but I was too young.

It’s one of the lines I’d have liked to have gone along but at least I’ve managed Chinley to Buxton.

 

[30907]

Yes. From 1963 Passenger Services Over Unusual Lines (PSUL) is the source.

BLS - PSUL Document Archive

In 1963 the summer Saturdays 0722 Nottingham Midland-Blackpool and 1410 return were booked to use the Dore Curve.

This was a long standing summer Saturday train, though in years up to 1962 the inbound train was a separate set of rolling stock departing Blackpool at 0935.

In the 1958 LMR public timetable (see Timetable World) these appear in Tables 212 and 140. As far as I can tell there were no advertised stops between Chesterfield Midland and Blackpool.

Thanks, I only checked the local table which unsurprisingly didn't show them.

 

[zwk500]

Fairly sure that it's passenger rated in the Sectional Appendix and is used by Charters to avoid Sheffield. However it is subject to a restriction due to the gradient that only exceptionally short trains can be held on the curve itself, so it's rare to be able to get a path from Chesterfield all the way through to Chinley/New Mills, and even harder in the reverse as you need to make 2 conflicting moves to traverse the south curve.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Faster, less frequent
For example, weekdays
Manchester Central 07:25 - Derby 08:51 3 intermediate stops
08:25 - 10:00 4 stops
...

plus 07:45 - 08/57 pass Derby North Junction Blue Pullman

That's a good reminder of how slow the Peak Forest line was - typically about 90 minutes with three stops. Even the Midland Pullman, with one stop, would have taken 73 or so minutes had it stopped at Derby.

Thanks to those responsible for all the input on the Dore curve.

 

[5562]

Yet still quicker than the current service involving either a change or reversal in Sheffield.