Hitchin flyover open

[A-driver]

Just incase anyone's interested, the flyover at Hitchin is given up Saturday night and passenger trains will start running over it from this Monday.

Looking at driver diagrams for next week it looks like certain 2Fxx Letchworth terminators (from Moorgate/Hertford) will be using it as only a few instructors sign it at present.

Haven't seen any Cambridge trains diagrammed to run over it yet but they won't start formally using it until December.

 

[causton]

Would I be right in thinking this would be trains indicated with a northbound path of DCF after Hitchin?

 

[A-driver]

Would I be right in thinking this would be trains indicated with a northbound path of DCF after Hitchin?

Afraid I have no idea what that means or where that would be indicated? I have just seen the DIs diagrams for the road conductors next week.

 

[causton]

Afraid I have no idea what that means or where that would be indicated? I have just seen the DIs diagrams for the road conductors next week.

Ah okay. I looked at the schedules on Real Time Trains and in the Hitchin line, most just show platform 2 e.g.:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/L01149/2013/06/25/advanced (Stopper)
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/L00052/2013/06/25/advanced (Semi-fast)

But a couple such as the one below show a DCF marker in the "Line" column after. Something like Down Cambridge Flyover I'm guessing if it is one of the trains?
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/L01153/2013/06/25/advanced

 

[A-driver]

More than likely then yes-as I say it is the 2F's that will start using it.

 

[Aictos]

More than likely then yes-as I say it is the 2F's that will start using it.

That's good to know, looks like my first chance will be next week

Once December comes, is it the aim that ALL Cambridge branch bound services will use the flyover with the existing crossing only being used for freight or doing engineering works?

 

[CarltonA]

Might try and bash this next week. Will get a Letchworth train from Moorgate and see if I get lucky.

 

[High Dyke]

Would I be right in thinking this would be trains indicated with a northbound path of DCF after Hitchin?

Indeed that is correct.

Extract from the Section 'C' notice

General
The Hitchin Grade Separation scheme provides grade separated access from the Down ECML to the Down Cambridge lines north
of Hitchin. The new line, LN126, ELR DCF, “Down Cambridge Flyover”, runs between 32m 53ch, Hitchin North Junction, on the
ECML LN101 (ECM1) to 33m 33ch, Hitchin East Junction on the Shepreth LN125 (SBR) branch.

 

[A-driver]

That's good to know, looks like my first chance will be next week

Once December comes, is it the aim that ALL Cambridge branch bound services will use the flyover with the existing crossing only being used for freight or doing engineering works?

I believe the cruisers will continue using the flat crossing unless there is disruption and will block up the mainline as the cruisers don't currently interfere with anything else in the timetable and it may be harder to route them over the flyover with freight workings etc.

The Letchworth terminators are the worst for punctuality at the junction so they are the priority. The Cambridge stoppers and semis will use it as they often get held at Hitchin for east coast etc to pass Hitchin which delays the Peterbo' 5 mins behind.

But I don't think any Cambridge trains will use it until all drivers have signed the road otherwise there will be too much double manning going on.

 

[HSTEd]

Why would it be necessary to continue to use the flat junction at all once the flyover is in place?
The gradient on it doesn't look so severe as to make it impassible to freight trains and it certainly looks a strong enough structure to handle intensive use?
Surely having both the flyover and the flat junction in place is absurd gold-plating?

 

[Tomnick]

Makes sense to retain the opportunity to run Down trains over the existing flat junction to me. Leaving aside the possible frustration of having a possession on the flyover line with no alternative route, it also provides a fair bit of flexibility in routine operations - for example, a train off the Down Fast (with an EC express closely following) towards Cambridge that won't conflict with anything on the Up from Biggleswade, but would get tangled up with a freight on the Down Slow if run over the flyover. Not much to be saved by removing the flat junction anyway - most of the connections would still be required, e.g. for crossing moves between running lines or, less routinely, single line working on the main line.

 

[A-driver]

Time wise there isn't much in it between the flat junction and flyover since the lowered the 80 on the down cambs to 50 but the reason the cruisers may often still use the flat crossing is that it won't conflict with freights on the down slow.

Plus from down fast to down cambs the flat crossing is slightly quicker and far simpler signal wise.

 

[Aictos]

I believe the cruisers will continue using the flat crossing unless there is disruption and will block up the mainline as the cruisers don't currently interfere with anything else in the timetable and it may be harder to route them over the flyover with freight workings etc.

The Letchworth terminators are the worst for punctuality at the junction so they are the priority. The Cambridge stoppers and semis will use it as they often get held at Hitchin for east coast etc to pass Hitchin which delays the Peterbo' 5 mins behind.

But I don't think any Cambridge trains will use it until all drivers have signed the road otherwise there will be too much double manning going on.

Thank you, that's been useful to know

 

[bramling]

Might try and bash this next week. Will get a Letchworth train from Moorgate and see if I get lucky.

So looking at the Open Train Times, does this imply the 13:57 from Hitchin to Letchworth on Monday is the first passenger train to take the flyover route?

 

[MarkyT]

Why would it be necessary to continue to use the flat junction at all once the flyover is in place?
The gradient on it doesn't look so severe as to make it impassible to freight trains and it certainly looks a strong enough structure to handle intensive use?
Surely having both the flyover and the flat junction in place is absurd gold-plating?

It makes sense to remove the redundant parts of the flat junction that are effectively duplicated by the flyover, eventually once all trains have been rerouted. The work would best be undertaken at some time in the future however, when the rest of the junction is renewed, or could be synchronised with some other job nearby that needs a suitable closure of the main line. It would be sensible to allow the new structure to fully 'bed in' under traffic for some time before removing the alternative route to the Cambridge line.

 

[Tomnick]

A bit of flexibility in routine operations goes a long way to minimising the effects of disruption - it might only take a couple of minutes' delay somewhere for a Down Fast to Down Cambridge train to miss its hypothetical path over the Down Slow and onto the flyover. Why, for the sake of two ends of a crossover (which also serves a purpose during single line working), the turnout onto the Down Cambridge and the flat crossing over the Up Slow, remove that flexibility and the potential to run it over the old route if there's a suitable gap in Up traffic?

 

[A-driver]

It makes sense to remove the redundant parts of the flat junction that are effectively duplicated by the flyover, eventually once all trains have been rerouted. The work would best be undertaken at some time in the future however, when the rest of the junction is renewed, or could be synchronised with some other job nearby that needs a suitable closure of the main line. It would be sensible to allow the new structure to fully 'bed in' under traffic for some time before removing the alternative route to the Cambridge line.

In what possible way would that make sense?!

For a start, as stated, the flat junction won't be redundant as trains will still be booked over it.

Secondly why remove it when it's a perfect 'get out of jail free' card? If a train fails on the flyover etc then they have a opportunity to run stuff past it.

Thirdly there is a commonly used shunt on the bend which is the only way to shunt north of Hitchin without going all the way to Biggleswade or Letchworth. And that shunt also gives access to the up yard at Hitchin. As I say, both the shunt and up yard are often used so it would be silly to get rid of them.

I can't see any merits to removing it. Plus if you remove the junction you may as well remove the entire down Cambridge line from Hitchin to stotfold road.

 

[MarkyT]

In what possible way would that make sense?!

To reduce ongoing costs of maintenance and renewal?
To improve reliability by reducing the total number of detected point ends, especially in main line routes?

Whilst trains are booked through the flat junction then clearly it can't be removed, but surely the main reason for that is that so few drivers are briefed on the new route, the flyover only due to be in full service from December.

Access to the yard is a more difficult problem agreed, but perhaps in the longer term a full right hand ladder across all tracks to the south of the station might be a better solution.

 

[Tomnick]

Three point ends (and possibly the switch diamonds across the Up Slow) - is that such a great price to pay for a bit of flexibility? I'm sure there'll be one or two that will continue to be booked that way anyway, if they conflict with something on the Down Slow, thus justifying the retention of the existing route.

 

[yorkie]

Three point ends (and possibly the switch diamonds across the Up Slow) - is that such a great price to pay for a bit of flexibility? I'm sure there'll be one or two that will continue to be booked that way anyway, if they conflict with something on the Down Slow, thus justifying the retention of the existing route.

Exactly what I was thinking!

Most of the time the fast train from Kings Cross to Cambridge will be bang on time, and usually there will be no conflicting movements on the Up lines, but there may well be a train on the Down Slow that would conflict!

 

[yorksrob]

I don't know . If there‘s an operational convenience to retaining the flat junction, surely it makes sense to keep it , at least until it's due for renewal.

 

[A-driver]

As said, even after December trains will still be booked on the flat crossing and as I say it removes access to the up yard, an incredibly important and well used shunt/turn around point and incredibly valuable flexibity if anything does go wrong on the flyover which will far outweigh and costs of the flat junction.

 

[David Goddard]

Removing the flat junction would mean any branch bound service not calling at Hitchin (ie half hourly "Cruisers", plus the likes of 1R01-03 & 05- 1617, 1723, 1753, 1853 Kings Cross to Royston) which are on the Down Fast at Stevenage will have to cross to the Down slow somewhere near Hitchin, to reach the flyover.
The time delay and track occupation caused by this would probably be more disruptive than the present arrangement using the flat crossing.
Retaining it also produces a further mile or so of track that can be used for Cambridge fasts to overtake slower branch trains (ie while the latter are on the flyover)

 

[D1009]

As far as I know the flat junction is to be retained anyway. The OP stated that at present only a few drivers sign the flyover, and it is a rare occurrence of new infrastructure being available ahead of schedule, so shouldn't we be applauding that?

 

[55018ballymoss]

As mentioned previously keeping both routes is the best solution as this provides flexibility to allow fast trains to overtake slow trains on the flyover, plus allows fast trains to use the present ladder junction (routing fast trains onto the slow line, flyover and then the Cambridge line would reduce the number of paths on the Down Slow and increase conflicts between fast and slow trains).
Also, this is not British Rail where costs were an issue, and they would have considered removing the ladder junction as it would have reduced maintenance costs. In this brave new world, all of the TOCs pay NR track access charges, and I imagine the track access charges are now based on providing both routes to the Cambridge line.

 

[A-driver]

Despite the over running engineering works this morning the flyover hasn't opened today after all. According to the drivers notice case it will remain closed 'until further notice' so not sure when it may now be used.

From what I've heard it was points/signalling issues when testing but not 100% sure on that.

 

[cmovcc]

Despite the over running engineering works this morning the flyover hasn't opened today after all. According to the drivers notice case it will remain closed 'until further notice' so not sure when it may now be used.

From what I've heard it was points/signalling issues when testing but not 100% sure on that.

Sniff, I was on the 1252.

 

[A-driver]

The flyover opened today and driver training has started. Not sure how many trains used it today but passenger trains have been using it.

 

[HGS]

I was on the first, the 1252 ex Moorgate to Letchworth service. There were three trains today all Moorgate to Letchworth. I believe it is the same tomorrow. There were a lot of Network Rail staff on the train and this was apparently the very first EMU to run over it. Only the tracklayer and ballast trains had been over it previously so there were a lot of relieved people that it all went smoothly.

 

[jon0844]

Did all the NR staff look nervous and wear parachutes?!