Hooton - where does the next train stop?

[Old Yard Dog]

The platforms at most Merseyrail stations have modern electronic signs telling you the stations where the next train will stop. One exception is Hooton where the signs only show the final destination. This means that passengers don't know whether the next train is going to stop at stations like Capenhurst, Bromborough Rake or Green Lane which are skipped by some workings. Capenhurst is a particular problem as it is the next station down the line. This means that passengers cannot fall back on the on-train information displays as it will be too late if they board an non-stop working.

 

[LRV3004]

The platforms at most Merseyrail stations have modern electronic signs telling you the stations where the next train will stop. One exception is Hooton where the signs only show the final destination. This means that passengers don't know whether the next train is going to stop at stations like Capenhurst, Bromborough Rake or Green Lane which are skipped by some workings. Capenhurst is a particular problem as it is the next station down the line. This means that passengers cannot fall back on the on-train information displays as it will be too late if they board an non-stop working.

If the screens don’t show the stopping pattern of the train then it’s the responsibility of the person travelling to check the printed timetables or speak to a member of staff before boarding the train.

 

[mcnw35282]

I think it's the case that the electronic signs at Hooton haven't been upgraded yet. Many stations had the same 3 line display units that showed only the next 3 trains' final destinations...I think there's still a couple on the Chester/Ellesmere Port line and on the Southport line. I reckon they'll all get replaced with the larger screen type where the 2nd line scrolls through the trains' stopping points at some point.

 

[Old Yard Dog]

If the screens don’t show the stopping pattern of the train then it’s the responsibility of the person travelling to check the printed timetables or speak to a member of staff before boarding the train.

That's not very customer friendly I'm afraid.

The printed timetable posters at Hooton are in quite small print - and it can be difficult to work out which train you're about to board as the signs are live signs telling you in how many minutes the train is actually expected to arrive, not when it is timetabled to depart. And as for speaking to members of staff - the only ones are in the ticket office some distance over the bridge from the platform - and often there will be a queue. Your only hope is to find the guard who could be anywhere in the train.

Interestingly the newer more modern displays at other stations are smaller but do list stopping points. The older ones at Hooton do have three lines but simply list the next three trains. I'm not sure why the 2nd line couldn't be used to list stops.

 

[Liverpool 507]

There is an ongoing departure screen replacement program across the network. Hooton will be done eventually.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The original screens were fine pre 2002 because like the Tube stations were never missed, not even in disruption - recovery was pretty much exclusively achieved by cancelling round trips or stepping back. Stops would only be missed when a station was closed entirely for emergency or engineering reasons and the PA would shout about it. In all the time of growing up with Merseyrail I don't think I experienced a missed out stop once, and I think I saw turning short at Maghull maybe twice, the rest of the time if something got late it was just canned entirely, taken out at Kirkdale or Birkenhead, and put back in on time on the following run.

The post 2002 TOC has increasingly used semifast running for lots of reasons and so now they are no longer fit for purpose.

 

[L401CJF]

If the guard is in the cab they'll often announce before closing the doors that the train will not call at Capenhurst before closing the doors, but this isn't guaranteed as the guard isn't always in the cab.

Usually the onboard auto announcer will say the train doesn't call at Capenhurst whilst at the platform - but as the dispatches are very quick it often doesn't say this until the doors have closed.

As said above the displays are due to be replaced - only a handful of stations still use the old style displays.

 

[Parjon]

The old displays are far more useful. The text on the new ones is tiny, and they only briefly and periodically say how many cars a train is formed of.

The old displays did show a rolling message about skipping capenhurst. The best solution would be simply for all stations to return to normal service.

 

[urbophile]

Aren't the skip-stops a temporary measure until the line gets the 777s? I believe they will cut a few minutes off the overall time so that there is less pressure on the turn-round time in Chester.

 

[D821]

The old displays are far more useful. The text on the new ones is tiny, and they only briefly and periodically say how many cars a train is formed of.

The old displays did show a rolling message about skipping capenhurst. The best solution would be simply for all stations to return to normal service.

I always found the old displays worse. The number of cars was only shown after it had scrolled through all the stations the train was stopping at, and it only showed this info for the top row. The new ones make this far easier to see.

 

[L401CJF]

Aren't the skip-stops a temporary measure until the line gets the 777s? I believe they will cut a few minutes off the overall time so that there is less pressure on the turn-round time in Chester.

Capenhurst has been skip stop since the Chesters were upped to every 15 minutes some years ago, except during the pandemic timetable - when frequency went back up to every 15 everything stopped there for a few months. Once the pre covid times came back the service dropped back to every other one stopping at CPU.

The other skip stops at Bromborough Rake/Green Lane were a new thing although I believe Bromborough Rake now has most if not all calling again

 

[Parjon]

I always found the old displays worse. The number of cars was only shown after it had scrolled through all the stations the train was stopping at, and it only showed this info for the top row. The new ones make this far easier to see.

Those are the newer ones I'm afraid!!

The old ones had 3 static lines of departures in order with
1st X mins Destination Y cars
2nd X mins Destination Y cars
3rd X mins Destination Y cars

When a capenhurst skipper was next the scrolling line would alert to this

 

[jamesst]

Those are the newer ones I'm afraid!!

The old ones had 3 static lines of departures in order with
1st X mins Destination Y cars
2nd X mins Destination Y cars
3rd X mins Destination Y cars

When a capenhurst skipper was next the scrolling line would alert to this

Haha just to confuse you they're actually the really old ones you mean, those examples still being at Hooton, Bromborough and a few other locations.

The next version listed all the calling points but didn't mention the train length until the very end.

The newest version (which Hooton should be getting shortly) have white writing and are much easier to read, find out train length, service running etc.

 

[D821]

Thanks, that explains a lot!

 

[Parjon]

The newest version (which Hooton should be getting shortly) have white writing and are much easier to read, find out train length, service running etc.

I think South parkway has those?

At least I can mostly read them but the text is still too small. But I don't like that you have to wait to find out the train length.

It's why people bunch up on the underground platforms these days.

 

[mcnw35282]

The newer ones show the train length on right of the top line after the destination. It usually cycles between “On Time” (or “Exp xx:xx” if it’s late) and the train length.

 

[Parjon]

The newer ones show the train length on right of the top line after the destination. It usually cycles between “On Time” (or “Exp xx:xx” if it’s late) and the train length.

Yep so you reach the platform and have to stop and wait for it to come up and then choose your spot on the platform.

Even if it comes up more quickly than the not so new ones, it doesn't make for good passenger flow at busy stations and bunches people up unnecessarily.

It's not designed properly with the network in mind.

 

[py_megapixel]

Yep so you reach the platform and have to stop and wait for it to come up and then choose your spot on the platform.

Even if it comes up more quickly than the not so new ones, it doesn't make for good passenger flow at busy stations and bunches people up unnecessarily.

It's not designed properly with the network in mind.

The train length takes all of about 3 seconds to come up. Does it really cause that much congestion with people waiting for it? I think it's a minority of passengers who pick a space on the platform based on the train length anyway.

 

[Vespa]

You can use real time trains to check if it's a stopper or a "semi express"

 

[mcnw35282]

Yep so you reach the platform and have to stop and wait for it to come up and then choose your spot on the platform.

Even if it comes up more quickly than the not so new ones, it doesn't make for good passenger flow at busy stations and bunches people up unnecessarily.

It's not designed properly with the network in mind.

A sign with all the required information, used on a rail system predominantly used by Merseysiders who know its clock-face frequency and know that the massive majority of trains are formed of 3 coaches (save for peak time capacity-booster trains and Southport trains during the summer) is "not designed with the network in mind"

 

[Parjon]

The train length takes all of about 3 seconds to come up. Does it really cause that much congestion with people waiting for it? I think it's a minority of passengers who pick a space on the platform based on the train length anyway.

Not on country bumpkin rail no, but on a busy urban network like ours yes it does make a difference.

And if we here are now in a situation where only a minority of passengers spread out on our platforms appropriately then that proves my point.

A sign with all the required information, used on a rail system predominantly used by Merseysiders who know its clock-face frequency and know that the massive majority of trains are formed of 3 coaches (save for peak time capacity-booster trains and Southport trains during the summer) is "not designed with the network in mind"

You don't know as much about the network as you seem to think.

 

[mcnw35282]

As someone who uses it every day, I'd say you're wrong.

 

[Parjon]

As someone who uses it every day, I'd say you're wrong.

As someone who uses it every day, I'd say I'm right.

 

[mcnw35282]

Ok pal.

 

[Skie]

I’d agree that having train length on permanent display should be the default approach, especially for the stations with large numbers of passengers or limited space around their entrances.

Stick the scrolling stopping pattern on the line below and rotate the 3rd line showing the next services and their lengths.

Liverpool Central has to be the worst example. The walls have huge line diagrams showing stopping patterns, the door locations for 3/6 car services are also shown on the wall and the station has narrow platforms. And some genius introduced the second version listed above reducing the number of people spreading out along the platform and forcing people to stand near the escalators to see the number of coaches.

The mind boggles.

 

[py_megapixel]

Not on country bumpkin rail no, but on a busy urban network like ours yes it does make a difference.

And if we here are now in a situation where only a minority of passengers spread out on our platforms appropriately then that proves my point.

I think it's been the case for as long as there have been live departure screens that people have clustered around them. If passenger volumes are enough that this is a problem then additional screens should be provided along the length of the platform, as they are at most large interchanges.

Even assuming passengers are arriving on the platform at a constant rate of two per second - which if the platform starts empty would be enough passengers to completely pack out a 508 in less than 5 minutes - and that all of them check the board for the train length, we're only looking at 5-10 passengers remaining in the vicinity of the board in the few seconds it's not showing the length, and then of course they would all move on.

 

[prod_pep]

Use of the alternating time due/train length display is inconsistent across the newest boards. Brunswick's Southport-bound platform board alternates time and train length but the Hunts Cross side's board does not, despite both being installed at the same time. There are other examples, too.

Knowing the train length at a glance is important on lines with six car trains due to the high frequency of short-forming that has plagued Merseyrail for many years. Nothing worse than walking to the end of the platform only to find your train is missing three of its coaches and won't be stopping near you.