Hope Valley Capacity Scheme updates

[Jamesrob637]

Did the work involve any upgrade to Woodsmoor Lane level crossing or was it just better signalling?

I don't know as the walk from mine to Woodsmoor (not daily, more once or twice a month) is the station side of the crossing therefore I only see the crossing from a moving train!

 

[td97]

Was increasing the speed to 60 between Edgeley Jns and Hazel Grove station officially withdrawn from the current scope or is that idea just in limbo? For all of the quarter of a minute it might claw back!

Actually fundamental to the business case. Network Rail were very adamant that this was not descoped.

Entry into service for the Hazel Grove resignalling is expected on 21 January. This will see the Edgeley to Hazel Grove line speed increase to 60mph (Down/to Manchester) or 55mph (Up), an increase from the existing 40/35.

No, it's happening, later this month. 55 on the Up, 60 on the Down, and extra signals too. Slightly faster both ways over the chord too,

The chord goes to 45mph Up (existing 40) and 40mph Down (existing 30).

as well as a few other little bits.

One of the niceties is SP to MU conversion on the line from Hazel Grove HL to New Mills South (this continues across the route to Dore, but the remainder to be commissioned in spring with the Earles to Dore resignalling), but the benefits aren't immediately realised as no stock will initially benefit. However, this enables (e.g.) 220/221/222 and 80x to run at the higher speed differential should an operator propose use in the future.

Did the work involve any upgrade to Woodsmoor Lane level crossing or was it just better signalling?

Some minor signalling upgrades related to the LX operation at Edgeley 1 SB (auto lower).

 

[Bryson]

One of the niceties is SP to MU conversion on the line from Hazel Grove HL to New Mills South (this continues across the route to Dore, but the remainder to be commissioned in spring with the Earles to Dore resignalling), but the benefits aren't immediately realised as no stock will initially benefit. However, this enables (e.g.) 220/221/222 and 80x to run at the higher speed differential should an operator propose use in the future.

Won't the TPE 185's benefit from this? I understood that these heavier units couldn't use SP differentials, did I get this wrong?

 

[Starmill]

Won't the TPE 185's benefit from this? I understood that these heavier units couldn't use SP differentials, did I get this wrong?

No you're not wrong, but class 185 also cannot use MU speeds.

 

[Bryson]

No you're not wrong, but class 185 also cannot use MU speeds.

Thanks for clarifying that

 

[CAF397]

Except, on the Hope Valley line only, Class 185s have been authorised to run at MU speeds by Network Rail.

 

[Bryson]

Except, on the Hope Valley line only, Class 185s have been authorised to run at MU speeds by Network Rail.

Will this help TPE to any great degree? How much difference is there between the MU speeds and the default speeds?

 

[CAF397]

I'm not sure as it's not my route (only going off what my colleagues are telling me and what I've read).

I think it's going from 70 for 185s to be able to run at upto 90mph in parts. I doubt journey times will be amended until there's a timetable recast when all the works are done, but what it will do is allow for recovery of late running if any occurs. In the Sheffield bound direction the TPE follows the Northern stopper from about Earles Sidings anyway.

 

[louis97]

I'm not sure as it's not my route (only going off what my colleagues are telling me and what I've read).

I think it's going from 70 for 185s to be able to run at upto 90mph in parts. I doubt journey times will be amended until there's a timetable recast when all the works are done, but what it will do is allow for recovery of late running if any occurs. In the Sheffield bound direction the TPE follows the Northern stopper from about Earles Sidings anyway.

There isn't any significant changes to the line speeds for 185s, apart from any in relation to relocation of some speed boards, they could not do the SP speeds and they also cannot do MU speeds which are replacing them.

The MU speeds in most cases match the existing SP speeds, there is however a small amount of change on the down. Between Bamford and Hope a short section of SP85 is removed and replaced with MU90 throughout. Btween Chinley North Junction and New Mills South Junction two short sections either side of Chinley station which were SP90 become MU75, and approaching New Mills South Junction another section of SP90 becomes MU80.

 

[CAF397]

There isn't any significant changes to the line speeds for 185s, apart from any in relation to relocation of some speed boards, they could not do the SP speeds and they also cannot do MU speeds which are replacing them.

I'll let others in the know correct you on that point.

 

[louis97]

I'll let others in the know correct you on that point.

I've just scrolled up and seen your post which is good to know, I was actually going to add a bit saying that an exception could be made for the Hope Valley. Should be a useful performance benefit to TPE services, which seem to struggle to meet the running times sometimes.

 

[td97]

185s benefit from permissible speed increases at Hazel Grove to Edgeley and through Grindleford. The rest of the route is differential speed (MU or HST). 185s will NOT be running at MU speeds on this (or any other) line.

 

[Tomnick]

185s benefit from permissible speed increases at Hazel Grove to Edgeley and through Grindleford. The rest of the route is differential speed (MU or HST). 185s will NOT be running at MU speeds on this (or any other) line.

It seems that some folk close to the project have a different understanding. It's hard to see how it could be implemented legitimately and safely though.

 

[td97]

It seems that some folk close to the project

Myself included...

It's hard to see how it could be implemented legitimately and safely though.

A risk assessment concluded that the risk and cost is too great for 185s to run at MU speed on this (or any other) line.

 

[Killingworth]

Myself included...

A risk assessment concluded that the risk and cost is too great for 185s to run at MU speed on this (or any other) line.

Sheffield-Manchester EMR 158/170 trains are often timetabled to take less time than TPE's supposedly faster 185s. I live above Dore West Junction and can usually tell when a 185 goes over from the louder clatter it makes.

Anyway, there's lots of energetic activity on the sites this week as they make ready for the footbridge to go in at the weekend.

 

[bigbigcheese]

Whilst I'm unsure about the hope valley stoppers, I'd be surprised if the Manchester - Sheffield section of the express services wasn't breaking even operationally.

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When you look at the passenger flow maps for Piccadilly Vs Victoria, you can see that Hope Valley carries a similar number of passenger volumes to the Huddersfield route. Bolder than the line out to Liverpool too.

It's remarkably heavily trafficked for the level of infrastructure and type of trains that run on it. It would be good to see it recieving some well deserved extra service in express or semi fast form.

Of course, Piccadilly is a bit doomed as a bottleneck, although I'd guess the train shed perhaps has a little more room for manoeuvre than 13/14.

Out of curiosity, where can one find more of these maps?

 

[Freightmaster]

Out of curiosity, where can one find more of these maps?

Here you go:

ORR Station Flow Images

I expect some posters may already have seen this, but for anyone else who may have missed it, here is a link; https://github.com/anisotropi4/kingfisher/blob/main/station.md The program shows the size of traffic flow from any UK station; just pick the station from the attached list and an image...

www.railforums.co.uk

MARK

 

[Killingworth]

Although the strongest of Storm Isha's gales avoided Dore & Totley they were still strong enough to prevent the very tall crane from safely swinging 4 of the 7 sections of the footbridge into place. That's postponed until next weekend.

Work continues on the platforms with the current platform shortly to be resurfaced and the old stone copers reset. The conifer is supposed to be coming down after the car park is cleared of bridge parts.

At West View Lane long suffering residents are seeing work continuing until 8 pm and progress is being made. Critically the track bed has to be ready for the new track to be laid on 11th February.

 

[Freightmaster]

...it's happening later this month. 55 on the Up, 60 on the Down, and extra signals too. Slightly faster both ways over the chord too, as well as a few other little bits.

I can confirm that the extra pair of signals is now in operation, protecting Woodsmoor level crossing;
so there are now six signal sections between Edgeley Junction and Hazel Grove (was five) and five in
the opposite direction (was four)



MARK

 

[Killingworth]

There seem to be a lot of rails ready to be laid. Some, presumably, are to relay existing track. The others may imply check rails?

 

[Bald Rick]

There seem to be a lot of rails ready to be laid. Some, presumably, are to relay existing track. The others may imply check rails?

Doubt they’d be check rails

 

[td97]

There seem to be a lot of rails ready to be laid. Some, presumably, are to relay existing track. The others may imply check rails?

Not check rails. Both mainlines require new rails from MAS/4 to Dore Station Jn (the station area already done), plus 250m plain line CWR (500m rail length) and 22x 60ft jointed lengths for the South Curve.

 

[WesternBiker]

Although the strongest of Storm Isha's gales avoided Dore & Totley they were still strong enough to prevent the very tall crane from safely swinging 4 of the 7 sections of the footbridge into place. That's postponed until next weekend.

Work continues on the platforms with the current platform shortly to be resurfaced and the old stone copers reset. The conifer is supposed to be coming down after the car park is cleared of bridge parts.

At West View Lane long suffering residents are seeing work continuing until 8 pm and progress is being made. Critically the track bed has to be ready for the new track to be laid on 11th February.

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Great photographs.

If I've got the orientation right, I presume the curve in photo 4 is to be redoubled?: at what point will this get done? (It doesn't look like much is happening right now.)

 

[_toommm_]

Although the strongest of Storm Isha's gales avoided Dore & Totley they were still strong enough to prevent the very tall crane from safely swinging 4 of the 7 sections of the footbridge into place. That's postponed until next weekend.

Work continues on the platforms with the current platform shortly to be resurfaced and the old stone copers reset. The conifer is supposed to be coming down after the car park is cleared of bridge parts.

At West View Lane long suffering residents are seeing work continuing until 8 pm and progress is being made. Critically the track bed has to be ready for the new track to be laid on 11th February.

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Those stairs and the roof of them look really nice. I’m glad they’ve gone for a bit more of an interesting design compared to the more building lift and stair design of new-build stations.

 

[Killingworth]

Great photographs.

If I've got the orientation right, I presume the curve in photo 4 is to be redoubled?: at what point will this get done? (It doesn't look like much is happening right now.)

The tight curve in the 4th picture is the section between the already laid new track from Dore Station Junction, through the new platform and to below Twentywell Lane over bridge up to the existing Dore West Junction seen in the final two pictures.

Those stairs and the roof of them look really nice. I’m glad they’ve gone for a bit more of an interesting design compared to the more building lift and stair design of new-build stations.

As you'd expect local opinions are mixed from welcoming the old Midland Railway colours to hating them and detesting the whole structure as a massive intrusion into the natural green environment. That won't improve when the large conifer by the station entrance is felled and the 1985 waiting shelter is demolished - currently without adequate replacement!

 

[Bunsenburner]

Myself included...

A risk assessment concluded that the risk and cost is too great for 185s to run at MU speed on this (or any other) line.

We’ve been told by our management, that 185s are allowed to run at MU speeds on the south route only. Its been bought up quite a few times.

 

[Tomnick]

Pretty sure those same managers will be nowhere to be seen if something goes wrong and a driver's facing a panel to explain why a train was being driven faster than the permissible speed shown in the Sectional Appendix...

 

[AndrewE]

Pretty sure those same managers will be nowhere to be seen if something goes wrong and a driver's facing a panel to explain why a train was being driven faster than the permissible speed shown in the Sectional Appendix...

That's what ASLEF are for, then. An Officer needs to get it formally in writing (especially in the light of the comments above) so that everyone knows where they stand. Otherwise stick to the rule book...

 

[Tomnick]

That's what ASLEF are for, then. An Officer needs to get it formally in writing (especially in the light of the comments above) so that everyone knows where they stand. Otherwise stick to the rule book...

Personally (I don't work for TPE!), I wouldn't do it even if it was put in writing. It sets a very dangerous precedent for the industry too.

 

[AndrewE]

Personally (I don't work for TPE!), I wouldn't do it even if it was put in writing. It sets a very dangerous precedent for the industry too.

Fair enough: you are driving so it's your decision.