Hope Valley Capacity Scheme updates

[Killingworth]

Difficult to say for sure, but recent train times suggests it's getting better at recovering from delays.
Sheffield to Edale search
Link to graph of arrival time actual vs booked. The Scheme opened around March 25th.

Hard to tell as comparisons are unreliable with Northern stoppers currently diverted via Stockport and Hazel Grove.

Certainly hasn't, and can't, solve the issue with stoppers out of Sheffield being frequently delayed by the TPE Cleethorpes-Liverpool service. That could have been at multiple places en route before Sheffield.

Using 195s on that route to work the same timetable used by Pacers gives more recovery capacity, noticeable when a 15x unit is employed.

Following on, an example from this afternoon.

TPE 1B83 1509 Scunthorpe to Liverpool Lime Street was 7 minutes late away from Scunthorpe, and 14 late away from Sheffield.

Following Northern 2T89 1614 Sheffield to Manchester Piccadilly was consequently 5 minutes late away but then held to allow the TPE to pass so 13 late at Dore.

Conequently 6Z18 1231 Elstow Redland Sdg to Tunstead Sdgs was held and passed Grindleford 11 late, assumed to have been held in the new Dore loop.

That in turn delayed 1R74 1255 Norwich to Liverpool Lime Street that was on time at Dore but was 17 down by Chinley.

I'll stop tracking there for other delays will have developed from each of the 3 passenger services. The Hope Valley delays all stemmed from that 7 minute late start at Scunthorpe caused by a delay to the incoming service - only 2 minutes down at Totley Tunnel East so those problems really began through Sheffield.

How the Dore loop helped by holding the freight is hard to say but it possibly saved an odd minute. Impossible to tell how new signalling around Sheffield compounded or reduced delays.

 

[GardenRail]

Hard to tell as comparisons are unreliable with Northern stoppers currently diverted via Stockport and Hazel Grove.

Certainly hasn't, and can't, solve the issue with stoppers out of Sheffield being frequently delayed by the TPE Cleethorpes-Liverpool service. That could have been at multiple places en route before Sheffield.

Using 195s on that route to work the same timetable used by Pacers gives more recovery capacity, noticeable when a 15x unit is employed.

Following on, an example from this afternoon.

TPE 1B83 1509 Scunthorpe to Liverpool Lime Street was 7 minutes late away from Scunthorpe, and 14 late away from Sheffield.

Following Northern 2T89 1614 Sheffield to Manchester Piccadilly was consequently 5 minutes late away but then held to allow the TPE to pass so 13 late at Dore.

Conequently 6Z18 1231 Elstow Redland Sdg to Tunstead Sdgs was held and passed Grindleford 11 late, assumed to have been held in the new Dore loop.

That in turn delayed 1R74 1255 Norwich to Liverpool Lime Street that was on time at Dore but was 17 down by Chinley.

I'll stop tracking there for other delays will have developed from each of the 3 passenger services. The Hope Valley delays all stemmed from that 7 minute late start at Scunthorpe caused by a delay to the incoming service - only 2 minutes down at Totley Tunnel East so those problems really began through Sheffield.

How the Dore loop helped by holding the freight is hard to say but it possibly saved an odd minute. Impossible to tell how new signalling around Sheffield compounded or reduced delays.

There should have been a loop put in at Bamford for Westbound traffic too. Or make Earles Loop passenger certified as currently it is only for freight. So many easy wins that could be done. Especially a facing crossover for freight from the West to get into Earles without drawing forward and having to reverse in.

The 1R74 soon caught everything up waiting for the block into Earles area of control. The problems have just been pushed further West. Rather than trains queuing at Totley like they used to, they now queue waiting for absolute Block signalling from Earles, in circumstances like this.

 

[zwk500]

There should have been a loop put in at Bamford for Westbound traffic too.

The 1R74 soon caught everything up waiting for the block into Earles area of control. The problems have just been pushed further West. Rather than trains queuing at Totley like they used to, they now queue waiting for absolute Block signalling from Earles, in circumstances like this.

Does this need another loop or just the extension of TCB signalling to New Mills?

 

[GardenRail]

TCB would be ideal with a few extra signals to break up the long blocks, and make Earles Loop passenger worthy while at it.

 

[Killingworth]

TCB would be ideal with a few extra signals to break up the long blocks, and make Earles Loop passenger worthy while at it.

Earles sidings look very much like, sidings. One is often used as a loop by freight trains and sometimes used to shelter special services but not normal timetabled passenger services.

It would give more options if it were relaid to passenger standards.

Resignalling west of Bamford is planned, but no confirmed dates aa yet.

Introducing a facing crossing for freight entering Earles from the west would give more options. At present anything coming that way has to reverse in, blocking both lines for longer than a straight pull through.

Trouble is the speed of railway projects from planning to delivery. The Hope Valley scheme took 25-30 years. The Hope Valley cement works is due to close in 2042!

On that basis relaying one track as a passenger loop now is justified. Resignalling westwards from Bamford and Earles certainly is. The crossover is needed now but would it still be good value if delivered in 15-20 years time?

 

[zwk500]

Earles sidings look very much like, sidings. One is often used as a loop by freight trains and sometimes used to shelter special services but not normal timetabled passenger services.

It would give more options if it were relaid to passenger standards.

Looking at the box diagram very kindly provided by @GardenRail in post #1,787 The protection arrangements for the sidings are almost certainly not satisfactory to permit the easy conversion of the goods loop (and it is explicitly marked as a Goods Loop) to passenger operation. It would require a quite significant reconfiguration of the west end of the yard to meet the modern standards for passenger use. Railtours require special permission for individual schedules to use it.

Introducing a facing crossing for freight entering Earles from the west would give more options. At present anything coming that way has to reverse in, blocking both lines for longer than a straight pull through.

Trouble is the speed of railway projects from planning to delivery. The Hope Valley scheme took 25-30 years. The Hope Valley cement works is due to close in 2042!

On that basis relaying one track as a passenger loop now is justified. Resignalling westwards from Bamford and Earles certainly is. The crossover is needed now but would it still be good value if delivered in 15-20 years time?

I see no reason why upgrading one siding to a passenger loop will take any less time than installing an additional crossover. Both proposals would trigger similar levels of signalling interventions.

 

[GardenRail]

The crossover is needed now but would it still be good value if delivered in 15-20 years time?

No, because the quarry will be shut by then, or nearly shut.

 

[Killingworth]

No, because the quarry will be shut by then, or nearly shut.

The point I was making, a reflection on how long it takes to get fairly minor improvements done! It also highlights how expensive it is to change anything.

But done now it would get almost 20 years use before the cement works is currently expected to close. That's because the Peak Park's licence to operate the quarries runs out in 2042 and currently is not expected to be extended. What happens to the site after that is already being considered.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Difficult to say for sure, but recent train times suggests it's getting better at recovering from delays.
Sheffield to Edale search
Link to graph of arrival time actual vs booked. The Scheme opened around March 25th.

Gosh. Hadn't realised these kind of data sheets existed! Thks.

 

[GardenRail]

Big problems today after a cable was damaged last night in the engineers T3 at Bamford. Resulting in 3-5 working and passing 2 signals at danger, Eastwards.

Not helped by there been no mobile phone reception at Grindleford for S&T to communicate with eachother from the Equipment Room at Grindleford, to the staff on the ground at Bamford.

 

[Dr Hoo]

There should have been a loop put in at Bamford for Westbound traffic too. Or make Earles Loop passenger certified as currently it is only for freight. So many easy wins that could be done. Especially a facing crossover for freight from the West to get into Earles without drawing forward and having to reverse in.

The 1R74 soon caught everything up waiting for the block into Earles area of control. The problems have just been pushed further West. Rather than trains queuing at Totley like they used to, they now queue waiting for absolute Block signalling from Earles, in circumstances like this.

The 'loop work' in the scheme was very largely focussed on making it possible to regulate the longest likely freight trains through the Dore triangle.

Any westbound freight from the Sheffield direction can be held in Heeley Loop, now 'extended' thanks to signal re-positioning. Any westbound freight from the Chesterfield direction can be held on the extended Dore South Curve. Any eastbound freight can be held in the new Bamford Loop. Freights can then be 'released' at the optimum time to keep them on the move. This process will no doubt improve as drivers, signallers, timetable planners and controllers get more used to and confident with the new set-up.

It is worth noting that almost all eastbound freights are loaded and thus slow to get away from any stop. Westbound freights are generally empty and much quicker off the mark. (The Immingham-Hope coal trains, only a couple per week, are the obvious exception.)

I fail to see any material benefit in a westbound loop at Bamford. As for a passenger capability at Earles; by that point a stopping passenger train has only two more stops to make - at Edale and Chinley - before getting clear at New Mills South. It was cause more/extra delay to the stopper than a fast train would avoid, given the lengthy and uneven block sections.

Earles sidings look very much like, sidings. One is often used as a loop by freight trains and sometimes used to shelter special services but not normal timetabled passenger services.

It would give more options if it were relaid to passenger standards.

Resignalling west of Bamford is planned, but no confirmed dates aa yet.

Introducing a facing crossing for freight entering Earles from the west would give more options. At present anything coming that way has to reverse in, blocking both lines for longer than a straight pull through.

Trouble is the speed of railway projects from planning to delivery. The Hope Valley scheme took 25-30 years. The Hope Valley cement works is due to close in 2042!

On that basis relaying one track as a passenger loop now is justified. Resignalling westwards from Bamford and Earles certainly is. The crossover is needed now but would it still be good value if delivered in 15-20 years time?

Westbound freights held at Earles are usually being held clear of the single track Chinley South-East curve because of other moves and congestion around the Peak Forest quarries.

It would require major re-modelling and resignalling to provide full 'trap' protection for passenger use of the loop.

There seem to be a lot of mentions about a West crossover at Earles but there aren't any regular freights from the West, just Freightliner light locomotive moves that can reverse in quickly. The Hope cement is all eastbound to Dewsbury, Walsall, Dagenham and Theale and the coal, which did used to come from Cwmbargoed and reverse, now comes from Immingham.

Where is the business case?

 

[AlbertBeale]

Big problems today after a cable was damaged last night in the engineers T3 at Bamford. Resulting in 3-5 working and passing 2 signals at danger, Eastwards.

Not helped by there been no mobile phone reception at Grindleford for S&T to communicate with eachother from the Equipment Room at Grindleford, to the staff on the ground at Bamford.

What's "3-5 working"?

 

[zwk500]

What's "3-5 working"?

I think this thread refers: https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/3-5-working-signalling.209575/

 

[Killingworth]

Big problems today after a cable was damaged last night in the engineers T3 at Bamford. Resulting in 3-5 working and passing 2 signals at danger, Eastwards.

Not helped by there been no mobile phone reception at Grindleford for S&T to communicate with eachother from the Equipment Room at Grindleford, to the staff on the ground at Bamford.

Hopefully not criminal damage, but concerning that the cable was vulnerable causing such issues in the first month of operation.

Having worked as a volunteer for the National Trust in that area poor mobile signals are very true! When Northern first intoduced parking charges at Grindleford the meters failed and pay by phone did too. I think meters may have gone and mobile signals there must have improved. (There's wifi at the station.)

 

[GardenRail]

What's "3-5 working"?

 

[Killingworth]

Chaos for an hour or two this morning when a freight service used the Dore loop and the points (apparently at Dore West but possibly Dore South as well?) didn't reset behind it. EMR 1R60 0549 Norwich to Manchester Piccadilly passed through Dore & Totley only 2 minutes late, near normal, but then returned to the platform. Passengers were allowed off to stretch their legs. Some left the station with luggage and called for Ubers to get to Manchester Airport. Before all the taxis arrived (presumably coming out of Sheffield) the train pulled away by then 60 minutes late! 2 EMR revenue inspectors also detrained and returned to Sheffield on a Northern service.

See; https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C55130/2024-04-25/detailed#allox_id=2

Knock on delays fed across to the MML as well as the Hope Valley line.

 

[Rail Ranger]

Any idea why TPE are not diverting via Huddersfield during the current blockade?

 

[GardenRail]

Any idea why TPE are not diverting via Huddersfield during the current blockade?

They were on Saturday....

 

[Rail Ranger]

They were on Saturday....

Not today.

 

[Spartacus]

Not today.

Blockade via Dewsbury routing everything via Healey Mills is probably putting paths at an absolute premium.

 

[Killingworth]

We may have thought it was all over after the 9 day blockade on 25th March when trains stopped in the new platform at Dore and the 2 loops became operational. Not quite, the lifts didn't work for a fortnight longer so the Rail Minister had to wait until 8th April to cut a ribbon. All done? No!

It's not finished yet, another 5 day blockade is in progress and work is continuing day and night. Notification has just gone round that it's going on until the end of August, a full year after residents had been told it would finish. The station car park won't be fully reopened until September - previously stated to be by the end of May.

Local patience is wearing thin, not least because after all the mayhem the two 6 car platforms will be serving no more trains than the single 4 car platform had been doing before.

 

[Spartacus]

Given the, I believe unprecedented, ground conditions I'm hardly surprised things are going on longer than expected. While there might not be any increase in services yet, I've already noticed timekeeping, and a return to normal around Sheffield after disruption is a lot better now than when trains had to wait for each other on and off the single line.

 

[CdBrux]

Even so it´s probably not a great perception for those affected that there has been a lot of money spent, a lot of longer than planned disruption, for rewards that are not necessarily that obvious.
I wonder if, once all is done, there would be a follow up communication demonstrating what benefits have already been delivered, such as stats on delay reduction and what that means across the wider rail network

 

[td97]

Update regarding scour protection undertaken adjacent to River Sheaf
Extract:

The Hope Valley Capacity Scheme forms part of the government’s commitment to upgrade the North of England’s rail network, to meet future passenger demand. Kaymac were recently contracted by VolkerRail/Story Joint Venture (VRSJV) to complete an abutment strengthening and scour protection scheme as part of an £80m investment, to improve capacity and connectivity of the rail line.

Full article and images:

Hope Valley Scour Protection Scheme - Kaymac Marine

Client: VolkerRail Story JV Location: Sheffield Background: The Hope Valley Capacity Scheme forms part of the government’s commitment to upgrade the North of England’s rail network, to meet future passenger demand. Kaymac were recently contracted by VolkerRail/Story Joint Venture (VRSJV) to...

www.kaymacmarine.co.uk

 

[Killingworth]

Update regarding scour protection undertaken adjacent to River Sheaf
Extract:

Full article and images:

Hope Valley Scour Protection Scheme - Kaymac Marine

Client: VolkerRail Story JV Location: Sheffield Background: The Hope Valley Capacity Scheme forms part of the government’s commitment to upgrade the North of England’s rail network, to meet future passenger demand. Kaymac were recently contracted by VolkerRail/Story Joint Venture (VRSJV) to...

www.kaymacmarine.co.uk

I'd noticed the fairly large Kay Marine workforce by Beauchief Gardens.

There's an error in their press release. The Sheaf is formed from the confluence of the Old Hay Brook and Totley Brooks, both on the east side of the hills. The Sheaf runs north into the River Don then Ouse before reaching the Humber.

The Burbage Brook runs south on the western Grindleford side of the hill and flows into the Derwent and Trent before the Humber.


UPDATED 17.5.24

After almost 8 weeks of operational experience has there been a perceptible improvement in train performance? Marginally, perhaps. To regular users, no, but that was never likely thanks to issues west of Piccadilly and east of Sheffield.

Full appraisal is now complicated because the stopping service is currently diverted from Piccadilly through Stockport and Hazel Grove to New Mills. The Hazel Grove chord is taking a lot more traffic than usual, freight as well as passenger, and that's adding pressure all the way through Stockport.

At the Sheffield end Northern stoppers continue to be held for late TPE services coming through from Cleethorpes and to allow longer distance services priority between Sheffield and where they cross to the Hope Valley at Dore Station Junction.

Westbound services may still be experiencing delays when following freight services. There may be teething problems using the two new loops at Bamford and Dore?

Work is still continuing on the embankment alongside the Dore loop. That may be limiting its use? it's certainly causing considerable ill feeling against the railway from the residents in the adjacent West View Lane flats and other neighbouring properties. They were told work would be completed by August 2023 with landscape restoration in October. The reasons why not have been well explained. The diesel generator chugging away below windows night and day has become background noise but pile driving has continued with ever more concrete being poured.

At Dore & Totley station work is continuing to restore the car park with total restoration now expected by the end of August.

Both the new Stannah lifts have been out of order since Tuesday morning! An offsite central issue? Users for Manchester and the Hope Valley needing the lifts are advised to take the next hourly train into Sheffield (no charge) and come back out again. Anyone coming out of Sheffield should, in theory, seek assistance and be provided with a free taxi. Anyone who discovers the issue after boarding the train should continue to Grindleford and get the next train back. If they discover the issue after leaving the train they'll have to wait an hour for the next or hope there's a strong person willing to help them up and over the bridge. Don't be wanting to use the last trains of the day.

Yesterday I observed a determined older lady (no luggage) very, very slowly taking the steps ever so carefully one at a time, firmly gripping the handrail stopping now and then for a breather. For her the loss of the single platform station was very clearly not an improvement!! The contractors still have fire marshals posted on the station and they have been offering assistance but that won't be the normal situation.

The Dore loop work continues - good to see the green setting