Hope Valley temporary "timetable"

[Watershed]

All TPE Hope Valley services appear to be only 3 cars today. Given Doncaster to Scunthorpe is blocked for engineering work there should be more units available. It also appears at least 3 units are stabled at Cleethorpes (plus 2 operating Scunthorpe to Cleethorpes). It really shouldn't be too difficult to have planned more units available in traffic.

I'm sure they were all planned as doubles. Unfortunately things often end up working out differently in practice, particularly with the lack of RDW at the moment.

When there's a Doncaster to Scunthorpe block on, stabling limitations mean that it's not really practicable to use any of the 6 units usually stabled at Cleethorpes on the west side of the block. Though as I say, that shouldn't prevent all services from being booked doubles. But it may impact on things if there are issues on the day.

 

[yorksrob]

All TPE Hope Valley services appear to be only 3 cars today. Given Doncaster to Scunthorpe is blocked for engineering work there should be more units available. It also appears at least 3 units are stabled at Cleethorpes (plus 2 operating Scunthorpe to Cleethorpes). It really shouldn't be too difficult to have planned more units available in traffic.

Indeed, particularly as they were running six carriage services on the route as a matter of course until very recently.

 

[Peterthegreat]

I'm sure they were all planned as doubles. Unfortunately things often end up working out differently in practice, particularly with the lack of RDW at the moment.

When there's a Doncaster to Scunthorpe block on, stabling limitations mean that it's not really practicable to use any of the 6 units usually stabled at Cleethorpes on the west side of the block. Though as I say, that shouldn't prevent all services from being booked doubles. But it may impact on things if there are issues on the day.

Well the Transpennine Journey check page has no shortformed trains listed today. That seems to imply the services were booked 3 cars.

 

[Killingworth]

The High Peak and Hope Valley Community Rail Partnership receives funding from the TOCs, see their website; https://peakdistrictbytrain.org/?fb...7IKb8Vf2Rj-43VadLc0mU-U-Kr7iA77Z5GZ_OB_WKzd2E

Members are drawn from all the stations on all three routes and all are unhappy with services currently provided. The Glossop, and Buxton lines have suffered far bigger Northern cuts than Hope Valley. It's galling for those of us wanting to promote rail travel into and out of the Peak District when we find such unreliable services.

Basically, the message coming down is not to promote weekend travel - the time when most cars are clogging the Peak District.

 

[Watershed]

Well the Transpennine Journey check page has no shortformed trains listed today. That seems to imply the services were booked 3 cars.

They've had rather a large incident to deal with today, so noting shortforms won't be at the top of their priority list. But I can assure you they're booked doubles.

 

[Peterthegreat]

They've had rather a large incident to deal with today, so noting shortforms won't be at the top of their priority list. But I can assure you they're booked doubles.

So why aren't they? The Manchester to Sheffield TPE service is two hourly today, not running beyond Doncaster and is rammed solid.

 

[tbtc]

To be fair to Northern, they're the ones who've provided their planned capacity today !

Fair point

I'm just nervous about the future when politicians no longer have the "stick" of fines/ threat of removing a franchise - it'll be harder to gently encourage improvements or castigate failing bits of the railway

I see your point about the discounted fares, but if the long distance operators were pulling their weight in the first place, there wouldn't be such crowding on the stoppers to begin with

It's been going for a while - part of my frustration is from being on three coach 185s between Sheffield and Manchester that were swamped with people buying "TPE only" tickets between Stockport and Manchester - at least now TPE is generally six coaches so it's less of an issue on a "typical" week (obviously the three coach trains today aren't good enough, I'm disappointed that this is happening) - one of the biggest failings of privatisation IMHO was the needless competition (because it was "better" to game the system by trying to claim a slice of non-core markets than it was to focus on your "own" passengers)

Well the Transpennine Journey check page has no shortformed trains listed today. That seems to imply the services were booked 3 cars.

That's frustrating - I thought that pretty much everything was meant to be six coaches now, so a three coach train during the daytime would be "short formed" - how are passengers meant to guess that it's okay that trains are three coaches because they were booked as three? It's a bit like this recent "habit" of changing the timetables at the last minute and then only paying compensation for delays/cancellations against *that* timetable - if you've been regularly running six coach trains for some time then putting out just three coaches is "short formed" in my eyes (even if that's all that you decided to operate, at short notice)

 

[yorksrob]

The High Peak and Hope Valley Community Rail Partnership receives funding from the TOCs, see their website; https://peakdistrictbytrain.org/?fb...7IKb8Vf2Rj-43VadLc0mU-U-Kr7iA77Z5GZ_OB_WKzd2E

Members are drawn from all the stations on all three routes and all are unhappy with services currently provided. The Glossop, and Buxton lines have suffered far bigger Northern cuts than Hope Valley. It's galling for those of us wanting to promote rail travel into and out of the Peak District when we find such unreliable services.

Basically, the message coming down is not to promote weekend travel - the time when most cars are clogging the Peak District.

A truly abysmal state of affairs.

 

[Peterthegreat]

The High Peak and Hope Valley Community Rail Partnership receives funding from the TOCs, see their website; https://peakdistrictbytrain.org/?fb...7IKb8Vf2Rj-43VadLc0mU-U-Kr7iA77Z5GZ_OB_WKzd2E

Members are drawn from all the stations on all three routes and all are unhappy with services currently provided. The Glossop, and Buxton lines have suffered far bigger Northern cuts than Hope Valley. It's galling for those of us wanting to promote rail travel into and out of the Peak District when we find such unreliable services.

Basically, the message coming down is not to promote weekend travel - the time when most cars are clogging the Peak District.

The booked mid-morning service today with actual formations from Sheffield to Manchester was-
08.08 TP - 3 cars
08.12 NT - 3 cars
09.14 NT - 3 cars
09.43 EM - 2 cars
10.11 TP - 3 cars

So no fast for 95 minutes at peak time. The northern trains, ideal for walkers, rammed with end to end traffic. A pathetic response by the industry.

 

[43055]

It's the same today, only the stopper is full and standing due to the previous 2 carriage EMR leaving half its passengers behind.

That said, I'm surprised at just how many people the 3 carriage Northern unit has managed to absorb. Northern are the heroes on this line at the moment.

As for the industry, it seems to be being diabolically run at the moment. I suspect the treasury are the root cause.

It's the Midlands Grand National at Uttoxeter today so EMR probably have taken some units off the Liverpool's to strengthen the Crewe - Newark's.

 

[Watershed]

So why aren't they? The Manchester to Sheffield TPE service is two hourly today, not running beyond Doncaster and is rammed solid.

A variety of issues, including units with no working toilets, units low on fuel and driver shortages. The Cleethorpes service is mostly two-hourly at the moment, but that's not done a great deal to help with reliability.

 

[Killingworth]

There is a 6 coach TPE due to run between Sheffield and Manchester, at 22.10. I wouldn't count on that, either as 6 or it running at all. See; https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...19/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=pax-calls&order=wtt

Hope Valley Capacity Scheme will provide paths for more traffic and ability to keep better time. It will have taken 25 years from first plans to completion. It's all for nowt if there aren't trains and crews to operate even the currently timetabled services.

 

[Djgr]

They've had rather a large incident to deal with today, so noting shortforms won't be at the top of their priority list. But I can assure you they're booked doubles.

Travelling in the North today really does feel like the railway is teetering on the edge of an abyss.

I don't know what it is like in the South but York is rammed, Leeds is rammed, Manchester is rammed, Liverpool is rammed.

The only things missing are the trains, the carriages, the signalling staff and the drivers.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

All TPE Hope Valley services appear to be only 3 cars today. Given Doncaster to Scunthorpe is blocked for engineering work there should be more units available. It also appears at least 3 units are stabled at Cleethorpes (plus 2 operating Scunthorpe to Cleethorpes). It really shouldn't be too difficult to have planned more units available in traffic.

If it’s only Doncaster to Scunthorpe blocked any reason why TPE aren’t diverting so they can still run Manchester to Cleethorpes?

 

[Watershed]

If it’s only Doncaster to Scunthorpe blocked any reason why TPE aren’t diverting so they can still run Manchester to Cleethorpes?

Because they don't sign Doncaster to Barnetby via Brigg or Market Rasen. There's an argument to say they should, but try making a business case for it!

 

[175001]

A bit of "hope" on a Sunday, just not this Sunday, is that Northern are planning to run 5/6 cars on the stoppers to help with the TPE crowd.

Needs a bit of risk assessment work before it can go ahead but according to the regional director, it'll be in place sooner rather than later

 

[yorksrob]

A bit of "hope" on a Sunday, just not this Sunday, is that Northern are planning to run 5/6 cars on the stoppers to help with the TPE crowd.

Needs a bit of risk assessment work before it can go ahead but according to the regional director, it'll be in place sooner rather than later

Well done to Northern in that case.

 

[mmh]

It's been going for a while - part of my frustration is from being on three coach 185s between Sheffield and Manchester that were swamped with people buying "TPE only" tickets between Stockport and Manchester

How do you tell what ticket someone else has?

 

[Kite159]

I believe EMR will as a contingency be introducing a 4 car 2x170 diagram on Liverpools at some point shortly, mostly to give crews some experience at working them in multiple but also it will be a useful backup for unit shortages freeing up some 15x for the summer Skegs. They need to have a test run to double check platform train interfaces first though.

All the fare dodgers in the front unit Back to the future with the Hope Valley considering TPE used to run pairs of 170s on it

(EMR/TPE would probably make a lot of money if they put an extra ticket checker in the front unit when pairs of 170s (and 185s) run. Nice long run from Sheffield to Stockport to catch out those passengers with Northern only tickets or no tickets [having a short ticket ready on their phone for the barriers at Piccadilly/Stockport])

 

[yorksrob]

All the fare dodgers in the front unit Back to the future with the Hope Valley considering TPE used to run pairs of 170s on it

(EMR/TPE would probably make a lot of money if they put an extra ticket checker in the front unit when pairs of 170s (and 185s) run. Nice long run from Sheffield to Stockport to catch out those passengers with Northern only tickets or no tickets [having a short ticket ready on their phone for the barriers at Piccadilly/Stockport])

They could do, but they'd have to supply the extra unit first.

 

[Killingworth]

There is a 6 coach TPE due to run between Sheffield and Manchester, at 22.10. I wouldn't count on that, either as 6 or it running at all. See; https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...19/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=pax-calls&order=wtt

The 22.10 was 3 car.

 

[Bevan Price]

The 22.10 was 3 car.

And according to RTT, started late from Doncaster, and left Sheffield behind the NT stopper (which was 2 x 150) .

 

[Peterthegreat]

And according to RTT, started late from Doncaster, and left Sheffield behind the NT stopper (which was 2 x 150) .

It was booked behind the Northern stopper but overtook it whilst the stopper was going via Rotherham.

 

[Killingworth]

A bit of "hope" on a Sunday, just not this Sunday, is that Northern are planning to run 5/6 cars on the stoppers to help with the TPE crowd.

Needs a bit of risk assessment work before it can go ahead but according to the regional director, it'll be in place sooner rather than later

According to RTT 150225 and 195131 are paired together this evening on 17.45 out of Piccadilly, currently 19 minutes late at Hathersage.*

At the recent CRP meeting representatives of Northern and ERM were present when the current capacity and reliability issues on this route were raised. (TPE usually attend but were absent.) CRP's are supposed to promote rail travel, but currently are in the position of effectively advising people not to use trains to and from the Hope Valley at weekends. Having prepared a website, posters and leaflets to promote the line it's a real slap in the face to see the current position.

I took a relative to catch the 4 car 12.52 from Piccadilly at Dore (4 minutes late) which was full and standing with large items of luggage jamming doorways. Standing for the short distance into Sheffield wasn't a problem but some had been standing all the way. She then caught the Northern 'express' 2 car Nottingham - Leeds, fortunately being offered a seat by a younger traveller.

Northern are the current operator victims in this war between railway parties. The passengers are ultimately bearing the brunt of the inability of the many disparate parties to operate a coherent transport service.

We have drifted away from the Hope Valley temporary timetable. On this route that's not the worst part of it.

*Edit, seems it was only 150225

 

[Bevan Price]

It was booked behind the Northern stopper but overtook it whilst the stopper was going via Rotherham.

Wrong stopper. It got stuck behind the 22:24 Sheffield to Manchester Piccadilly stopper.
It should have left Doncaster at 21:44, and Sheffield at 22:10, but left Doncaster 24 minutes late, was 26 late from Sheffield and 40 mins. late into Manchester Piccadilly according to RTT. The unit (185.121) was then sent back to Sheffield 37 minutes late on a 23:13 Piccadilly to Sheffield via Huddersfield, Wakefield Kirkgate & Moorthorpe (non-stop) reaching Sheffield at 01:09.

 

[yorksrob]

Well, had a wonderful trip between Sheffield and Manchester this morning - the full six carriages of TPE. Sadly, that's where the good news stops.

Traveling back from Buxton to Normanton, I'd planned to get the 21:55 from Stockport to Sheffield. To EMR's credit, this was four carriages, but alas it was full and standing with Man U fans.

Nevermind, what of the TPE in half an hour's time ? Sadly no such train, so it seems. Yet again the inadequacies of the Hope valley "temporary" timetable scupper things.

My only option is to travel back via Leeds, so I go the other way to man pic.

Hurrah, the 21:30 is there and is six well loaded carriages. Sadly this gets into Leeds at 21:35, so no connection back to Normy for me. Ordinarily this would connect with the 23:00 Leeds to Normanton service, but "passenger focused" (according to its recent head honcho) Network Rail doesn't allow this train to run on the day when it's most needed (Saturday)..

What a way to run a railway. Let's hope the bogs are working !

 

[175001]

A bit of "hope" on a Sunday, just not this Sunday, is that Northern are planning to run 5/6 cars on the stoppers to help with the TPE crowd.

Needs a bit of risk assessment work before it can go ahead but according to the regional director, it'll be in place sooner rather than later

Today's the day the risk assessment is taking place

6 cars on the 1149 MAN-SHF and 1314 return working.

Realtime Trains | 2S84 1149 Manchester Piccadilly to Sheffield | 13/04/2022

Real-time train running information for 2S84 1149 departure from Manchester Piccadilly to Sheffield on 13/04/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[_toommm_]

Today's the day the risk assessment is taking place

6 cars on the 1149 MAN-SHF and 1314 return working.

Realtime Trains | 2S84 1149 Manchester Piccadilly to Sheffield | 13/04/2022

Real-time train running information for 2S84 1149 departure from Manchester Piccadilly to Sheffield on 13/04/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Presumably though six cars can’t even fit into Platform 7, so they’ll be relying on a use of a through platform when they use the six cars?

 

[johnnychips]

Platform 5 today.

 

[Killingworth]

Shame. The 13.14 doesn't stop at Dore, Hathersage or Edale so not one for me to try today. 6 cars seems a bit OTT even at weekends unless TPE are going to totally give up - which they might this coming weekend!