Hornby 2022 range

TheEdge

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That's the nature of business. They aren't a charity.

No, but then there is business and some of what Hornby have been doing. The whole pre-order situation is the most egregious. The shops take pre-orders, Hornby introduce their tier system, the shops have to cancel pre-orders, suddenly the only place to get your loco from is direct from Hornby at their full RRP (which as far as I can find no shops ever charge), what a shock! The repeated use of old, inaccurate or downright incorrect molds for top dollar models.

Hornby feel they can charge high prices as a lot of their customers think they are the only supplier of model railways; it's essentially a tax on not doing price research (or ignorance), and as long as people keep paying it, they will keep charging it.

Until people just stop paying it. The W1 fiasco could be a turning point. If Hornby want to charge crazy money then they need to produce an excellent product. Not a model which has arrived broken and with a trailing bogie that looks like belongs on a BRIO set. How many people over the last 18 months thought about getting into the hobby, googled "model railways", ended up on Hornby's website, seen £200+ models and thrown the idea in the bin?

I model European N but keep an eye on the UK market. Its come to a miserable point where I saw a model I've been waiting for finally get its price (a 4 car Kato EMU) and be genuinely shocked that its only £175. In the interest of fair comparison, looking at Arnold products on the Hornby website, they want £269.50 for a 3 car RENFE DMU meanwhile Piko want £249 for a 4 car EMU and Fleischmann want £257 for a close coupled, functional tilt (in N scale!) ICE T. Hornby prices just don't match what other people are doing.

--- EDIT ---

£362 for two HST power cars. Not sound fitted, not even DCC fitted. No coaches (£44 each by the way). How on Earth can anyone even start to justify that!?
 
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LOL The Irony

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That's the nature of business. They aren't a charity.
1. Then stop giving them excuses as to why they have to raise prices. There comes a point where you can't blame brexit or covid and that time is approaching quickly for Hornby.
2. The price rises wouldn't pee people off as much if they got well made products, on time and undamaged, none of which seems to happen. Releasing railroad quality (sometimes worse than) models as the full fat premium Hornby is never going to go down well. Constantly jacking up prices when the quality doesn't deserve such high pricing is never going to go down well. Delaying models and then having them arrive broken is never going to go down well.
 

reddragon

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Explain to me then how I can get better, cheaper products made by other manufacturers?

Hornby churn out endless steam locos, but not enough modern traction, their sales model is very dated, their customer approach is awful and very dated.

The best model around is Accurascale. Announce 1 model at the time when you are at sample stage,, chat with your customers, get pre-orders to determine volumes, respond to requests for variations etc, take a deposit and keep your customers up to date in detail.

Heljan are good value for money, simple and work
 

pdeaves

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The price rises wouldn't pee people off as much if they got well made products, on time and undamaged, none of which seems to happen. Releasing railroad quality (sometimes worse than) models as the full fat premium Hornby is never going to go down well. Constantly jacking up prices when the quality doesn't deserve such high pricing is never going to go down well.
Whilst true, if people continue to pay they may grumble but still part with the money. That keeps Hornby's shareholders happy, which is the reason for the business. Until the products stop being profitable, that's the way it will be. Don't buy, then things might change.
 

Cowley

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I can’t when reading everyone’s views on the current Hornby situation of being reminded how Lima took a huge chunk of the market away from Hornby (especially in the 1980s) the last time Hornby got a bit too complacent.
There’s even more competition these days as well and some of the newer manufacturers could really pull the rug from under their feet…
 

TheEdge

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Whilst true, if people continue to pay they may grumble but still part with the money.

What irks is people seem ok with it. I've raised this with a few model YouTubers and seen it again with the W1. People seem happy to pay £200+ and then immediately dismantle the loco and actually make it work. People just shouldn't accept it.
 

david1212

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....

--- EDIT ---

£362 for two HST power cars. Not sound fitted, not even DCC fitted. No coaches (£44 each by the way). How on Earth can anyone even start to justify that!?

I have still got all my Tri-ang / Tri-ang/Hornby / Wrenn from late 1968 up to 1975, maybe slightly later.

Relatively the body moulds have improved in appearance to be more like a model than a toy. In real terms though I wonder how much more production costs, or given now in China how much less ?

My Hymek was an early purchase and has 75/- ( £3.75 ) on the box. The Bank of England Inflation Calculator gives £1 in 1969 as £16.83 in 2020. That makes the Hymek ~£65 at current prices.

The MK2 coach is marked 27/- and the MK2 half brake 25/- so ~£21.50. These have the lights in. A later MK2 half brake is marked £1.58.

These early purchases were all high street toy/model shops. Later ones were mail order so not marked e.g. Evening Star with the ringfield motor in the tender.

I have a Lima Western from around 1984 that cost £6.99. At current prices just under £25. It has only been run a handful of times.
 

tnxrail

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Will existing pre-orders rise or stay the same maybe a silly question just considering things.
 

Iskra

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1. Then stop giving them excuses as to why they have to raise prices. There comes a point where you can't blame brexit or covid and that time is approaching quickly for Hornby.
2. The price rises wouldn't pee people off as much if they got well made products, on time and undamaged, none of which seems to happen. Releasing railroad quality (sometimes worse than) models as the full fat premium Hornby is never going to go down well. Constantly jacking up prices when the quality doesn't deserve such high pricing is never going to go down well. Delaying models and then having them arrive broken is never going to go down well.
1) Price rises are everywhere currently; see ticket prices on the real railway or energy prices; again well above inflation. Hornby don't operate in a vacuum. They might offer nostalgic products, but they very much sell them in the real world.
2) Maybe this is the cost of well made products, on time and undamaged ;)
 

24Grange

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There must be a time when all the baby boomers have shuffled off to the great layout in the sky, are the next generation going to spend money like this? - this is what they should be looking at. Its all very well if you have a £400+ 4 car unit or £200+ steam loco, and its wonderfully detailed - but fragile (bits and couplings falling off etc) are they robust enough for a (next) generation that wants to "play" with them, rather than admire the detail and carefully run on exhibition class layouts at their local club?
 

reddragon

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There must be a time when all the baby boomers have shuffled off to the great layout in the sky, are the next generation going to spend money like this? - this is what they should be looking at. Its all very well if you have a £400+ 4 car unit or £200+ steam loco, and its wonderfully detailed - but fragile (bits and couplings falling off etc) are they robust enough for a (next) generation that wants to "play" with them, rather than admire the detail and carefully run on exhibition class layouts at their local club?
For me the gap between Lima & new Hornby is too small, just the motor smoothness.

My Lima locos can still pull 10+ coaches, run at speed and with stay alive added match new locos running.

Heljan offer a lot for less than a Hornby, Accurascale offer outstanding products at Hornby prices.

Hornby need to split their range properly into Railroad freely stocked & always available and Super detailed by pre-order like Accurascale
 

TheEdge

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There must be a time when all the baby boomers have shuffled off to the great layout in the sky, are the next generation going to spend money like this? - this is what they should be looking at. Its all very well if you have a £400+ 4 car unit or £200+ steam loco, and its wonderfully detailed - but fragile (bits and couplings falling off etc) are they robust enough for a (next) generation that wants to "play" with them, rather than admire the detail and carefully run on exhibition class layouts at their local club?

I think Hornby are sticking their fingers in their ears signing pretending this day isn't coming.

Growing voices calling for reasonable prices and a range of (actual*) modern rolling stock. So they continue to produce late BR models at eye watering prices.

*That's another thing that annoys me, BR Blue isn't modern image when it's 40/50 years old.
 

24Grange

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Agree I've still got, Triang, Hornby Dublo, Wrenn type trains, which above all else are robust, ( Lima to up to a point) - Airfix not so ( the start of "super detailing"). If I have a derailment with one of those, or worse case it ends up on the floor. It will probably be OK ( maybe minor repairable damage) - you drop a £400 4 car DMU on the floor - its a write off.

Also I can't see disposable income being around to support the prices for ever either, like I said baby boomers with their "golden" final salary pensions won't be around for ever - what then? Very few people around can remember pre war steam ( LNER Etc), but "Modern image" - post 1996 not so much - the stuff people see every day. Where is all this ( especially freight stock)
 

TheEdge

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Also I can't see disposable income being around to support the prices for ever either, like I said baby boomers with their "golden" final salary pensions won't be around for ever - what then? Very few people around can remember pre war steam ( LNER Etc), but "Modern image" - post 1996 not so much - the stuff people see every day. Where is all this ( especially freight stock)

I went to a London show with a friend a few years back, between us we earn comfortably over £100k, and we both thought it was just too expensive to be practical, British modelling relies on a population that is dying, and if it doesn't change these companies will hurt.

There just doesn't seem to be a desire from the manufacturers to make modern image stuff. Perhaps the British market is based more heavily on nostalgia but that will change as people age and anyone new joins the hobby. If you look at the ranges of Kato and Marklin just to start, they lean so much heavier towards modern kit. It isn't just Hornby, Bachmann are as bad, most of their units are BR Blue and older, if you want something that isn't a 158 or 150 you are out of luck. Its mad that there has still not been an RTR Electrostar. A family as important to the modern UK network as the 66 is, as common a sight to so many potential customers and as ubiquitous to so many locations, and to get it you either need to kit build or butcher the quite aged Bachmann 170.
 

Cowley

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I went to a London show with a friend a few years back, between us we earn comfortably over £100k, and we both thought it was just too expensive to be practical, British modelling relies on a population that is dying, and if it doesn't change these companies will hurt.

There just doesn't seem to be a desire from the manufacturers to make modern image stuff. Perhaps the British market is based more heavily on nostalgia but that will change as people age and anyone new joins the hobby. If you look at the ranges of Kato and Marklin just to start, they lean so much heavier towards modern kit. It isn't just Hornby, Bachmann are as bad, most of their units are BR Blue and older, if you want something that isn't a 158 or 150 you are out of luck. Its mad that there has still not been an RTR Electrostar. A family as important to the modern UK network as the 66 is, as common a sight to so many potential customers and as ubiquitous to so many locations, and to get it you either need to kit build or butcher the quite aged Bachmann 170.

I must admit that I’m glad I model the era and area that I do.
When I went for an N gauge version of the Barnstaple line in the 1980s pretty much everything I’ve needed has been available over the last couple of years. Yet for someone trying to model the current scene (which is what a younger newcomer would quite probably want to do) they’d really struggle to find everything they’d need.
 

tbtc

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baby boomers with their "golden" final salary pensions won't be around for ever - what then?

This is what worries me

Kids grow up on wooden Brio railways, watch/read some Thomas The Tank Engine (and to a lesser extent, Chuggington), but then what?

I'm somewhere between seven and seventy, in that age group where the only train that seems to be in popular culture is the Hogwarts Express - other than Harry Potter things, what does a thirty year old enthusiast on an unremarkable salary have in the shops to appeal to them?

Look at the contrast between Lego and Hornby over the past twenty years:

Lego have grown their business by expanding the ranges that they do - you can buy a seven year old a fire engine like in every generation of seven year olds, but there are a wide range of sets for older people, whether that's fans of architecture/ animals or particular fandoms (Star Wars/ Batman etc), there's pretty much something for everyone. I could buy a grown up friend a licensed set from their favourite TV show (Friends, Dr Who etc) or spend several hundred pounds on a replica Death Star, there's a huge range

Hornby have relied upon a relatively wealthy generation who are able to pay increasingly high prices for specialist models, there's not been much attempt to widen the range, they seem to have fallen into the same trap as many UK bus companies - relying upon a slowly shrinking customer base to pay more and more each year so that your total revenue may be stable but the number of people is going down - and eventually we'll get to a state where the loyal buyers are no longer purchasing the intricate replicas and will start to sell their collections sold as they move into Nursing Homes etc - there'll probably be a lot of models on the second hand market around the end of this decade as Baby Boomers are forced to downsize... which leaves Hornby where exactly? Look at how some companies like BHS lost their way by only appealing to an older demographic.
 

birchesgreen

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The executives who decide these things will have moved on to somewhere else by the time the consequences of their decisions are felt.
 

Sad Sprinter

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This is what worries me

Kids grow up on wooden Brio railways, watch/read some Thomas The Tank Engine (and to a lesser extent, Chuggington), but then what?

I'm somewhere between seven and seventy, in that age group where the only train that seems to be in popular culture is the Hogwarts Express - other than Harry Potter things, what does a thirty year old enthusiast on an unremarkable salary have in the shops to appeal to them?

Look at the contrast between Lego and Hornby over the past twenty years:

Lego have grown their business by expanding the ranges that they do - you can buy a seven year old a fire engine like in every generation of seven year olds, but there are a wide range of sets for older people, whether that's fans of architecture/ animals or particular fandoms (Star Wars/ Batman etc), there's pretty much something for everyone. I could buy a grown up friend a licensed set from their favourite TV show (Friends, Dr Who etc) or spend several hundred pounds on a replica Death Star, there's a huge range

Hornby have relied upon a relatively wealthy generation who are able to pay increasingly high prices for specialist models, there's not been much attempt to widen the range, they seem to have fallen into the same trap as many UK bus companies - relying upon a slowly shrinking customer base to pay more and more each year so that your total revenue may be stable but the number of people is going down - and eventually we'll get to a state where the loyal buyers are no longer purchasing the intricate replicas and will start to sell their collections sold as they move into Nursing Homes etc - there'll probably be a lot of models on the second hand market around the end of this decade as Baby Boomers are forced to downsize... which leaves Hornby where exactly? Look at how some companies like BHS lost their way by only appealing to an older demographic.

I'm in touching distance of 27 and not exactly rolling in cash. I have lots of models that have entirely been brought from childhood as presents, but for the love of God for years I've been crying out for some EMUs since I was a child. I'm not even that interested in post-privatisation trains, I just want more NSE era stock for crying out loud. I don't have the money or skill for Bratchell Models, and even if I did shell out 500 quid on a Bratchell EMU, it would be a long time before I could justify spending another 500 on another EMU to have a vaguely realistic set. If Hornby did a class 465 in NSE livery, with basic detail, I'd be so happy. Forget cab lights, even. I don't care. Forget DCC, forget interior modelling, a 4 car, cheap and cheerful Networker and I will be a happy man.

Bachmann is pretty good for NSE era, but even they seem to have the Southern Aversion and prefer NSE DMUs instead of EMUs. Fingers crossed for the 10th Jan though. Fingers crossed.
 

reddragon

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I'm


I'm in touching distance of 27 and not exactly rolling in cash. I have lots of models that have entirely been brought from childhood as presents, but for the love of God for years I've been crying out for some EMUs since I was a child. I'm not even that interested in post-privatisation trains, I just want more NSE era stock for crying out loud. I don't have the money or skill for Bratchell Models, and even if I did shell out 500 quid on a Bratchell EMU, it would be a long time before I could justify spending another 500 on another EMU to have a vaguely realistic set. If Hornby did a class 465 in NSE livery, with basic detail, I'd be so happy. Forget cab lights, even. I don't care. Forget DCC, forget interior modelling, a 4 car, cheap and cheerful Networker and I will be a happy man.

Bachmann is pretty good for NSE era, but even they seem to have the Southern Aversion and prefer NSE DMUs instead of EMUs. Fingers crossed for the 10th Jan though. Fingers crossed.
I have a DCC fitted 466

1641656129888.png
 

david1212

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Overall compared to 40 - 50 years ago I wonder what the current volume of sales is ?

While having much more than a basic starter trainset was never the most common toy most medium towns had a model / toy shop that carried a reasonable stock so there must have been the turnover to justify this.

Of course like many things internet ordering and fast delivery has been a huge change but if right now I wanted to buy Hornby, or any other brand, over the counter I would not know where to go. Certainly there is nowhere in any main shopping street or retail park with at least 12 miles.
 

IanXC

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The celebrating Scotland one will be a 9 car as a 5 car. The other set looks to be correctly numbered as a 5 car set from the engine shed pictures from last year.

Oh yes! 800204. I had only gone by the product description of "R3762 LNER, Hitachi IEP Bi-Mode Class 800/1, 'Azuma' Five Car Train Pack - Era 11".

Now I'm in a dilemma!
 

Bessie

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Hornby 2022 range - oh dear! As a GWR era modeller from early 1900's to 1980's (so covers NSE as well) there is absolutely nothing I want. Would have liked an updated Castle tooling especially as Pendennis Castle will be in steam this year. Instead Dapol/Bachmann will be getting my 2022 money.
 

reddragon

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There were a few things there that interest me, but at prices that do not!

Channel Packet, new HSTs, Class 802 all nice but a tad above my willingness to pay that much for a Hornby, also a better 4VEP.

Like the 755 but not my arena, same for most of the HSTs

Hornby 2022 range - oh dear! As a GWR era modeller from early 1900's to 1980's (so covers NSE as well) there is absolutely nothing I want. Would have liked an updated Castle tooling especially as Pendennis Castle will be in steam this year. Instead Dapol/Bachmann will be getting my 2022 money.
Accurascale are doing a Manor, top notch version too!
 

Sad Sprinter

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Well yesterday I prayed for more Southern Region stock, and today that is exactly what I got. Whilst I'm happy to see 4VEPs again, the livery choice is questionable; SWT and SouthCentral green? I'm surprised they didn't bring back the NSE livery, which is what I really wanted.

The SWT 4VEP suggests the model could be aiming at those who brought Bachmann's 450 that came out a few years ago. If that is the case, could the SouthCentral 4VEP suggest Bachmann is planning to bring out a class 377 model? Seeing as they already have the Electrostar body mould for the class 168 it's perfectly possible.

Although, as I recall, the SouthCentral livery did not last long on slam door stock. I'm pretty sure it was introduced in 2002 and only a few units had it. From my memory, most slam door stock on the Central Division was Connex yellow until they were scrapped. You would have thought a Connex yellow 4VEP, which could appeal to both SouthCentral and SouthEastern users would have been better.

Anyway, lets hope the NSE 4VEP might be back next year!
 

reddragon

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Well yesterday I prayed for more Southern Region stock, and today that is exactly what I got. Whilst I'm happy to see 4VEPs again, the livery choice is questionable; SWT and SouthCentral green? I'm surprised they didn't bring back the NSE livery, which is what I really wanted.

The SWT 4VEP suggests the model could be aiming at those who brought Bachmann's 450 that came out a few years ago. If that is the case, could the SouthCentral 4VEP suggest Bachmann is planning to bring out a class 377 model? Seeing as they already have the Electrostar body mould for the class 168 it's perfectly possible.

Although, as I recall, the SouthCentral livery did not last long on slam door stock. I'm pretty sure it was introduced in 2002 and only a few units had it. From my memory, most slam door stock on the Central Division was Connex yellow until they were scrapped. You would have thought a Connex yellow 4VEP, which could appeal to both SouthCentral and SouthEastern users would have been better.

Anyway, lets hope the NSE 4VEP might be back next year!
I might sell my old NSE Class 423 this year on eBay & get the SWT version.
 

pdeaves

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There just doesn't seem to be a desire from the manufacturers to make modern image stuff

Whilst I'm happy to see 4VEPs again, the livery choice is questionable; SWT and SouthCentral green?
Two representative comments (not personal digs at the individuals concerned) show the very fine line Hornby (and all their competitors) walk. Not enough modern? - here's some modern. But now it's too modern! (and that is aside from the debate about how modern a train has to be to count it as 'modern'). You can't please all of the people all of the time.
 

Ted633

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Although, as I recall, the SouthCentral livery did not last long on slam door stock. I'm pretty sure it was introduced in 2002 and only a few units had it. From my memory, most slam door stock on the Central Division was Connex yellow until they were scrapped. You would have thought a Connex yellow 4VEP, which could appeal to both SouthCentral and SouthEastern users would have been better.
A fair few CIG's had the green livery (although shortlived), however only one VEP was repainted green. 3514 if I remember correctly, so hopefully Hornby will get it right!
 

TheEdge

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Not enough modern? - here's some modern. But now it's too modern! (and that is aside from the debate about how modern a train has to be to count it as 'modern'). You can't please all of the people all of the time.

I would very much argue units introduced in the late 1960s and withdrawn almost 20 years ago is barely modern. But then people often tout BR Blue as modern.
 

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