How about Sprinter Replacement Engines and Transmissions?

[ic31420]

Not sure if this should go here or in the speculative ideas section.

Anyway I was reading the 195/196/197 are 'orrible thread and a thought struck me that while it seems to be dawning on those in power that electrification is needed. It isn't going to happen over night. We are going to need significant numbers of DMUs for some years to come.

It seems the 150s/156s/158s are well liked and going well. But they're getting on a bit now, engine technology, transmission technology and emission tech has moved on significantly. Even the 170s are now 20 odd years old.

How long can we keep on maintaining the Cummins / Perkins units under the fleets? Are we seeing parts shortages or can parts down to pistons and blocks and control gubbins still be obtained? How many spare engines and transmissions are available?

Would there be any appetite in a straight re-engining programme to replace the older units with presumably more modern, cleaner, more efficient power-trains?

I know there have been several trials of hybrid units (chiltern / GWR) and whatnot which seem to have been met with success but there has been no fleet deployments.

Surely if it is going to be done, its going to have to be soon else they'll not get the life out of them to make it cost effective.

Sticking the 195 powerpack under the 150/156 would make them a much nicer unit without the noise and thrash from a stop, it would give the 158 a bit more poke and make the 170 a bit more sprightly around town. Other than the bill.... whats not to like?

 

[12C]

The main problem with 150/156 units now is body corrosion, rather than engine reliability or parts availablity. Even with significant corrosion repair after the last C6 overhaul it’s getting noticeably worse again.

158s are in better condition being aluminium bodied, but at the end of the day they’re all approaching 35 years old and near the end of their design life, I don’t think it would be cost effective for the time they will be around for.

 

[Irascible]

Yes, 'I've brought the idea up in the past too - fairly sure Cummins are still producing that line of engines, but it's not just the engine that'd need replacing, all the ancillaries too plus the aircon. Might just about be worth it for the 159s & Turbos to add a decade ( hah. With the turbos in Devon they'll last longer than me ), but eventually they'll just be too creaky to keep going.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

With the 150s, would there be room for all the extra gubbins required for exhaust treatment that a modern engine would need in order to meet the emissions standards? IIRC that's one of the reasons Adtranz/Bombardier didn't offer the Turbostar as a 20m version.

 

[skyhigh]

With the 150s, would there be room for all the extra gubbins required for exhaust treatment that a modern engine would need in order to meet the emissions standards?

No chance. It's pretty tightly packed under a 150 as it is. No way you'd fit in the associated gubbins from a 195.

Sticking the 195 powerpack under the 150/156 would make them a much nicer unit without the noise and thrash from a stop

I can't imagine it'd make that much difference. 195s are much better sound insulated than a 150. They're pretty much as loud from the outside.

Other than the bill....

To re-engine the whole 15x fleet would likely cost millions. Who's paying for that at this stage in their lives?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

No chance. It's pretty tightly packed under a 150 as it is. No way you'd fit in the associated gubbins from a 195.

Thought so, hence the query. The time to do something like this was probably twenty years ago, assuming that the lower-tier emissions standards of the time would at least make it feasible.

 

[Snow1964]

The problem is that even if you could get a new modern engine to fit, it is basically being attached to a 30-37 year old train (classes 150-166).

The bodywork, and the interior saloons are unlikely to survive the ideal timeframe of the new engines, so will have to depreciate them over shorter period. Or spend to make these fit for say another 25 years service. So now have a bad financial case to add to difficult engineering.

A good way to think about it is a train of 4 parts (body, engines, bogies and customer saloons), so still got to sort corrosion of body, and make customer equipment suitable for operating into 2030s (new seats, replacement aircon, possibly door motors etc). And to put it bluntly by the time try and tackle all this, almost certainly going to cost more than a new train where all of it is expected to last 30+ years.