How are the Chinese getting hold of BR1B keys.

[Dai Corner]

I wonder how much Pakex UK charge the train-operating-companies for these keys after their inevitable mark up? These "out of the factory back door" versions could be a way for them to save money on their next order.

This genuine supplier to the heritage railways charges £5.83+VAT retail. I'd imagine the TOCs pay much less for larger quantities.

BR 1 Key | HOPS

Operations support, data processing, tools and consumables for heritage steam railways and preserved locomotive owners.

www.heritage-ops.org.uk

 

[randyrippley]

So that Etsy listing offers them in packets of five, and there were 46,946 "reviews" i.e. presumably completed sales. In other words around 234,730 bootleg copies of that key in circulation just through that one sales route.

How many staff are employed on the UK rail network?

Somewhat a worry if any foreign actor decided it was necessary to disable our rail system

 

[The Puddock]

So that Etsy listing offers them in packets of five, and there were 46,946 "reviews" i.e. presumably completed sales. In other words around 234,730 bootleg copies of that key in circulation just through that one sales route.

The vast majority - if not all - of those reviews will certainly be fakes written by bots, having been paid for by the seller. Most Chinese knock-off suppliers with vast numbers of positive reviews, even on Amazon, simply buy them.

As for BR1B keys, I find the best use for mine is fishing the teabag out.

 

[PG]

I wonder how much Pakex UK charge the train-operating-companies for these keys after their inevitable mark up? These "out of the factory back door" versions could be a way for them to save money on their next order.

Then you'll have no comeback when one snaps in the lock whereas Pakex will, I assume, have their own quality assurance so as to uphold their reputation.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Somewhat a worry if any foreign actor decided it was necessary to disable our rail system

There's much easier and more certain ways of disabling the rail network than using any of these keys ( but let's not say what those methods would be! ).

No it isn't. Antique means 100+ years old. However vintage can be used for 20-99 years old so 1995 precisely only needs to wait another year for that - 1995 design made later doesn't count.

Umm... 1995 has already been vintage for nine years... ( which is certainly frightening how quickly time passes!! )

 

[MotCO]

I must admit, if I ever saw one of these keys, I would never have known what they were used for.

Now if I had seen a T-key, I would have known, because I remember seeing bus conductors carry them to open the bus locker or blind boxes, but am not sure if they are still used.

 

[Darandio]

So that Etsy listing offers them in packets of five, and there were 46,946 "reviews" i.e. presumably completed sales. In other words around 234,730 bootleg copies of that key in circulation just through that one sales route.

It's 46,946 reviews for the vendor. The vendor sells over 5000 different products.

 

[randyrippley]

It's 46,946 reviews for the vendor. The vendor sells over 5000 different products.

Thank you for explaining that, makes much more sense.
I'll now go and sit in the corner wearing the pointy hat with a D on it

 

[dosxuk]

Somewhat a worry if any foreign actor decided it was necessary to disable our rail system

If a foreign actor decided to disable our rail system, it's highly unlikely that they would be enabled by knock off BR1B keys on Etsy. They would be trivial a foreign state to copy and manufacture themselves.

 

[Trackman]

I see two have been bought in the last 24 hours, not saying they are from RUKF lol etc..
I wonder if they open other things? - non-railway related.

 

[weastebusdepot]

I wonder if they open other things? - non-railway related.

Probably a fair few garden sheds.

At one time a BR1 key opened many staff toilet blocks and mess rooms. Most have new been replaced with numeric keypads, which are all different and the codes changed at frequent intervals. Which then means anyone whose job takes them to lots of places on the network has to keep a notebook or something to remember which is the code for each location.

 

[Blackpool boy]

How much of a security and safety risk does the unauthorised use of these keys pose? Is it high, medium or low?

NOTE - please don't provide any specific details of how and where the risks might occur (for obvious security reasons).

Bit late for that considering the OP listed quite a few of the operations these keys perform to get in places.

With lots of modern stock on the railway now is this as big of a problem as has been made out in this thread - I'm guessing modern stock doesnt use them and all the various rooms and offices on stations have moved away from a uniform key too something a bit more secure like a keypad >?

 

[dangie]

Out of curiosity, do railway companies ensure that all keys issued to staff are returned when they leave? Wherever I've worked a note was kept of the keys I was issued with and a senior member of staff ensured they were returned on my last day (sometimes ceremoniously in exchange for a memento at my leaving do!).

As a side issue when I retired from 40 years in the power station I had to return items such as overalls, safety helmet plus other personal equipment. All of these items would be scrapped as they couldn’t be issued to anyone else. There was no mention of the bunch of keys I had acquired over the years which gave me access to every switch room, control boxes, emergency equipment etc etc. I would have much preferred it if they had asked for the keys but let me keep the rest.

The daft thing is, each year we were issued with new overalls & safety boots etc. We could keep the old ones..!!

Edit: I did keep the keys as a bit of a memento, but they are of no use as the power station is now being turned into a housing estate. I don’t think the keys will open any doors

 

[Prime586]

Pakex are a small distribution company, mainly dealing in packaging and janitorial supplies - their registered office is an accountants' office in St. Albans, and their distribution centre in Welwyn is a small warehouse. The other approved suppliers of BR1B keys (DJM, Unipart Rail/Railpart and CrewKit) had their keys made in the UK. Pakex presumably decided to outsource the manufacture of their keys to China to cut costs (VeryCharms are seling a pack of 5 for £3.45, HOPS sell one for £7, so how much are Pakex making on them?), which has exposed them to the usual 'one for you, two for us' issue that comes with outsourcing to China and means these keys are now everywhere, being sold for buttons.

The items being sold on Etsy in the OP are from a US company called VeryCharms based in Louisville, who sell cast metal jewellery supplies (presumably sourced from China). There is another seller on Etsy in Florida sellng them as shower curtain hooks. The ones sold on ebay/Amazon/Aliexpress etc. are coming direct from Chinese sellers in Shenzhen and Shanghai.

All the BR1B keys I can find pictures from other approved suppliers are chromed steel. The Pakex ones (and the ones sold by HOPS, who presumably are sourcing theirs from Pakex) appear to be made from cast brass or 'bronze' - in fact, from the very visible seams around the edges it would not surprise me if the manufacturer recast a key Pakex had obtained from another supplier (the oval shape of the bow and the 'BR1B' engraving look identical to this style of DJM-supplied key).

 

[wilbers]

There's much easier and more certain ways of disabling the rail network than using any of these keys ( but let's not say what those methods would be! ).




Umm... 1995 has already been vintage for nine years... ( which is certainly frightening how quickly time passes!! )

So it is. My brain knows that 2024-1995 = 29, but it also knows (and is wrong) that things bought in adulthood aren't really vintage even if facts say some of them are.

 

[jon0844]

Pakex also seems to manage lost property for Greater Anglia. Seems very random what they do.

 

[Prime586]

Pakex also seems to manage lost property for Greater Anglia. Seems very random what they do.

They also used to handle Virgin Trains' lost property storage too. I assume that came from them already being on the NR approved supplier list to TOCs and having spare space in their warehouse.

 

[Ducatist4]

So for purely scientific interest I bought one which arrived yesterday. I‘ve never see a real one to compare it with but the one I received seems very small and thin. It’s nicely made though and feels strong. Just doesn’t feel like a functional key.

 

[Ashley Hill]

It looks quite nice in brass.

 

[Roger1973]

Now if I had seen a T-key, I would have known, because I remember seeing bus conductors carry them to open the bus locker or blind boxes, but am not sure if they are still used.

increasingly rare for operating staff - needing actually to open anything to change blinds (or even having blinds rather than electronic displays) is quite a rarity now, drivers on OPO buses don't always have or even more rarely use lockers on the bus, and access to premises is now usually electronically activated with a card or a 'key fob' sort of thing, or with a kepyad that needs a number code.

Some operators (particularly London Transport) issued them (in my part of London at least they were known as 'budget' or 'budgie' keys not T Keys) to conductors and OPO drivers (although not crew drivers - who had to borrow their conductor's key to use the 'facilities' at some points) but this wasn't all that universal around the country, and I'm not sure if they are still issued to London bus drivers.

There are some things on some buses where engineering staff still need them.

 

[MP33]

When I first started work in Central London, in the early 1980s. I worked with a couple of people from the Medway towns. Due to overcrowding issues, they used to enter an unused guards' compartment. A friend that they travelled with worked out that the end of a teaspoon would unlock the door.

 

[jon0844]

When I first started work in Central London, in the early 1980s. I worked with a couple of people from the Medway towns. Due to overcrowding issues, they used to enter an unused guards' compartment. A friend that they travelled with worked out that the end of a teaspoon would unlock the door.

FCC had that with the 317s and other similar stock. They used to have dedicated staff to check at places like Finsbury Park.