How could unsatisfactory branch shuttles be improved?

[GordonT]

Any nominations for specific branch shuttles you feel are unsatisfactory in their present form? Why are they unsatisfactory and what should happen to improve things. The thought was provoked by reading a short feature on the Bromley North to Grove Park shuttle which seems to be "stuck" in its present form due to the high cost of integrating it with DLR, LU or Tramlink.

 

[Ken H]

Morecambe. Not enough trains to make it turn up and go, and Morecambe station is not near anywhere.

Colne station is pretty remote too. A Burnley - Colne bus would do it - oh there are lots of those.

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

Greenford - West Ealing. A diesel oasis which provides a very poor frequency to the three exclusive stations it serves (Drayton Green, Castle Bar Park and South Greenford). Crossrail has scuppered its chances of ever having a regular service into Ealing Broadway and Paddington, the current direct trains are for operational convenience, so it is left trundling back and forth through suburbia carrying very few passengers.

 

[Horizon22]

Any nominations for specific branch shuttles you feel are unsatisfactory in their present form? Why are they unsatisfactory and what should happen to improve things. The thought was provoked by reading a short feature on the Bromley North to Grove Park shuttle which seems to be "stuck" in its present form due to the high cost of integrating it with DLR, LU or Tramlink.

Yes it's a shame. I personally think the Bakerloo extension should go that way instead of Hayes - you'd still have to try and tunnel under Grove Park somehow but you could do intermediate stations at Catford. As you say high cost. The timetable could integrate a little better though at Grove Park.

Greenford - West Ealing. A diesel oasis which provides a very poor frequency to the three exclusive stations it serves (Drayton Green, Castle Bar Park and South Greenford). Crossrail has scuppered its chances of ever having a regular service into Ealing Broadway and Paddington, the current direct trains are for operational convenience, so it is left trundling back and forth through suburbia carrying very few passengers.

Yes, besides Marylebone must be one of the most central parts of London still unelectrified. Lots of options could be possible, but with the short platforms, old signalling and lack of electrification it's going nowhere fast.

As for others Romford - Upminster has always struck me as an oddity with not fantastic connections.

 

[nw12398]

The Greenford branch line seems less than ideal, especially now its a bit isolated from other GWR local services.

How many shuttle routes are there anyway? Some definitions suggest no intermediate stops, but assuming that we allow a small number of intermediate stops, and also require few/no through services, likely to be only part of most journeys rather than the whole thing, and a short distance, I can think of:

Bromley North-Grove Park
Greenford
Stourbridge
Aylesbury-Princes Risborough
Lymington
Marks Tey-Sudbury
Butetown/Cardiff Bay (but I believe this is supposed to be served by Valleys through services in the future)
GWR Henley, Marlow and Windsor services

I guess the Looe Valley and St Ives lines could count too. I feel that Par-Newquay is too long, although most travellers will use the full route and it will only be part of their journey.

In all cases I'd say they're satisfactory in one respect - they exist! So many similar services no longer do and don't always have good bus services.

 

[dk1]

Aren’t the GEML timetable plans expected to see the Witham-Braintree revert predominately to a branch shuttle? Will be far more sensible & reliable if it does.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Does the Lancaster to Morecambe line count as a shuttle?

 

[BeijingDave]

Helsby - Ellesmere Port.

Not sure what could be done with it. It's effectively a parliamentary service. Only 18 passengers used Ince & Elton in 2021.

 

[30907]

Any nominations for specific branch shuttles you feel are unsatisfactory in their present form? Why are they unsatisfactory and what should happen to improve things. The thought was provoked by reading a short feature on the Bromley North to Grove Park shuttle which seems to be "stuck" in its present form due to the high cost of integrating it with DLR, LU or Tramlink.

OTOH it does its job reasonably well - apart from not being able to connect to both Lewisham-Cannon St and Charing Cross in the offpeak timetable.
The problem with integrating it with the Bakerloo or DLR is that it duplicates. the rail route - and Tramlink from Beckenham either has to do the same or climb very steeply up from Shortlands.

Marlow might be another contender - but that has been discussed many times and there is no obvious solution without significant expense.

 

[Essexman]

As for others Romford - Upminster has always struck me as an oddity with not fantastic connections.

It's a very useful link between the lines into Essex from Liverpool Street and Fenchurch Street. Usage has increased in recent years, partly due to people using it to get to Lakeside Shopping Centre, changing at Upminster for Chafford Hundred. I often use it to travel from Upminster towards Chelmsford & Colchester. It's also a useful alternative route into London from Upminster, which I will be using today as C2C are only running as far as Barking. I suspect that when Crossrail fully opens more people will use it to access this from Upminster.

It would be even more useful if it still ran through to Grays but that was severed by the District Line a long time ago. The line was one of only a few to be twice reprieved from closure in the 1960s & early 70s after a strong local campaign which my father was heavily involved in. Electrification couldn't see foreseen then but now under TFL we have longer operating hours and a Sunday service.

It's a shame that neither a 20 minute service or extra halts, both of which have been considered, have been introduced. There was (and still is) a good case for a halt to serve Havering Sixth Form College.

 

[GordonT]

Does the Lancaster to Morecambe line count as a shuttle?

For the purposes of my original post please include the widest possible definition of "shuttle" operations. This would include services where the greater proportion of the timetable is run on a "shuttle" basis interspersed with occasional "through" trains. The Oxenholme-Windermere line might be such an example as well as Lancaster to Morecambe. Do London Underground have any shuttle operations left at its extremities? The Waterloo-Bank line would fit my intended criteria as a shuttle operation.

 

[swt_passenger]

St Albans Abbey. Non-memorable timetable due to length of the route and time taken for a return trip.

But I always think that a true “shuttle service” implies only one train going back and forth, once you have two or more trains and passing on a branch then it’s no longer really a shuttle service. So Waterloo & City meets the two stations requirement, but its double track and higher frequency rules it out.

 

[ainsworth74]

Helsby - Ellesmere Port.

Not sure what could be done with it. It's effectively a parliamentary service. Only 18 passengers used Ince & Elton in 2021.

They just need a few more battery powered 777s. Then you'd just extend Merseyrail 2tph service to Helsby and withdraw the Northern service entirely.

 

[The DJ]

Only thing wrong with the Greenford shuttle is that it should be extended to Ealing Broadway as it once was. Half hourly service, local passengers know when trains are due, no reason for increased frequency. 20mph speed limit makes the journey to/from Greenford seem like a drag

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

Only thing wrong with the Greenford shuttle is that it should be extended to Ealing Broadway as it once was. Half hourly service, local passengers know when trains are due, no reason for increased frequency. 20mph speed limit makes the journey to/from Greenford seem like a drag

The full Crossrail timetable (whenever it finally starts) precludes this. There is also the problem of turning it at Ealing Broadway without getting in the way of other services. Theoretically it could use Acton Yard.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

As well as the Greenford branch, the lines out of Paddington also featute

Slough - Windsor
Maidenhead - Marlow
Twyford - Henley
Reading - Basingstoke
Didcot- Oxford

All are well used.

 

[swt_passenger]

As well as the Greenford branch, the lines out of Paddington also featute

Slough - Windsor
Maidenhead - Marlow
Twyford - Henley
Reading - Basingstoke
Didcot- Oxford

All are well used.

The first three were already mentioned, post #5, I don’t think the others are purely shuttle services...

 

[142blue]

Blackpool South. Fir the areas it serves its rotten and needs double tracking or loops at least

 

[Essexman]

Didcot- Oxford

I would suggest that this is unsatisfactory in that it as mainly a result of electrification not being continued to Oxford, so the through stopping train from Oxford to London no longer run.

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

As well as the Greenford branch, the lines out of Paddington also featute

Slough - Windsor
Maidenhead - Marlow
Twyford - Henley
Reading - Basingstoke
Didcot- Oxford

All are well used.

If they are 'well used' do they meet the parameters of this thread which is about "unsatisfactory" shuttles? Sometimes a branch line is best served by a self contained shuttle with passengers making an easy connection, i.e. not too long a wait and provision of lifts etc so that all passengers can access the connection.

 

[D821]

They just need a few more battery powered 777s. Then you'd just extend Merseyrail 2tph service to Helsby and withdraw the Northern service entirely.

Didn't Merseyrail use Ellesmere Port to Helsby as the location for trailing the battery 777?

 

[Wychwood93]

The Lymington branch - a one unit shuttle from Brockenhurst to Lymington Pier twice an hour.

 

[zwk500]

The Lymington branch - a one unit shuttle from Brockenhurst to Lymington Pier twice an hour.

What should it be and why?

 

[swt_passenger]

The Lymington branch - a one unit shuttle from Brockenhurst to Lymington Pier twice an hour.

Why is it unsatisfactory though? Also it was already mentioned?

 

[Llandudno]

Morecambe. Not enough trains to make it turn up and go, and Morecambe station is not near anywhere.

Colne station is pretty remote too. A Burnley - Colne bus would do it - oh there are lots of those.

Perhaps Morecambe would be better served by a clock face 30 min shuttle to/from Lancaster and don’t worry about trying to connect with the mainline?

 

[oddiesjack]

I would suggest stockport - stalybridge as the ultimate unsatisfactory shuttle!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Marston Vale needs to run to MKC to be really useful.

 

[Horizon22]

Only thing wrong with the Greenford shuttle is that it should be extended to Ealing Broadway as it once was. Half hourly service, local passengers know when trains are due, no reason for increased frequency. 20mph speed limit makes the journey to/from Greenford seem like a drag

Absolutely nowhere to turn that around at Ealing Broadway - that's why P5 was created at W. Ealing.

 

[nickswift99]

As well as the Greenford branch, the lines out of Paddington also featute

Slough - Windsor
Maidenhead - Marlow
Twyford - Henley
Reading - Basingstoke
Didcot- Oxford

All are well used.

Didcot Oxford is only temporarily a shuttle service due to the delay in electrification and the 769s.

These services didn’t exist prior to the introduction of the Electrostars.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Do London Underground have any shuttle operations left at its extremities?

The Ongar, Aldwych and South Acton shuttles are long gone, and the Wembley/Stanmore shuttle incorporated into a longer line since 1938. Woodford Hainault was to have been reinstated as a shuttle (using 4-car trains) to release some rolling stock for life-extension work on the fleet, but seems not to have happened. Not sure of the reasons, but gapping has been suggested, as has the small number of spare cabbed (A-B) units - the fleet was delivered with a small surplus of (single-ended) cabbed units over the (non-cabbed) intermediate units (B-C or B-D), but over time some of the spare cabs had been robbed of parts to repair others.