How feasible is a West Hampstead Interchange station?

[philosopher]

At West Hampstead in Northwest London you have the Thameslink, North London, Jubilee, Metropolitan and Chiltern Lines all in very close proximity, there is probably less than 200 metres between all of them. However currently there are separate stations for Thameslink, the North London and Jubilee Lines, while the Metropolitan Line and Chiltern Main Line pass through without stopping.

Therefore with some reconfiguration you could establish a large single station complex with at least 12 platforms in which all Thameslink trains, North London Line trains, Jubilee Line, Metropolitan tube and Chiltern trains and most East Midland Railway services stop? Such a station seems like it has potential to become west London‘s version of Stratford and could ease pressure on Marylebone and St Pancras stations.

How feasible is such as station and has it ever been considered?

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

Is it really needed?

The street level interchange is not too bad. Probably better to make sure the street furniture / layout is friendly for those with luggage, buggies, wheelchairs etc than spend millions (billions?) acquiring property and rerouting lines.

Compared to Stratford, there is not a lot at West Hampstead, it is a fairly typical suburban shopping street.

 

[zwk500]

It was looked at about 10-15 years ago, but the pace of development in London is such that it's no longer really feasible.

Stations in West Hampstead - Wikipedia

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Camden New Journal - News: Station interchange plans...

https://www.camden.gov.uk/documents/20142/145786127/Site+Allocations+2020+-+09+West+Hampstead+Interchange+Area.pdf/dfc31912-2bb3-d4f3-390f-66a4adf59b4c?t=1581430516086#:~:text=West%20Hampstead%20Interchange%20is%20identified,centre%2C%20commercial%20and%20residential%20uses.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

It was in Chiltern’s franchise as an aspirational project 20 years ago. The sheer cost of the project considering there is no level ground on the Chiltern Lines (is in a cutting which quickly becomes a viaduct and other properties are built right up to the boundary) almost certainly cripples any business case for building it. The station would definitely be useful but there are a hundred other things which would offer more value for money.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Therefore with some reconfiguration you could establish a large single station complex with at least 12 platforms in which all Thameslink trains, North London Line trains, Jubilee Line, Metropolitan tube and Chiltern trains and most East Midland Railway services stop? Such a station seems like it has potential to become west London‘s version of Stratford and could ease pressure on Marylebone and St Pancras stations.

From an operational perspective a very significant difference with Stratford is that all routes through West Hampstead are through services with obvious implications for line capacity, journey times and resource utilisation.

At Stratford the Overground North London Line, Jubilee Line, the two DLR routes and the Lea/Lee Valley services all terminate so there is no 'penalty' for them.

The other comments about lack of land or local business significance are also very relevant of course.

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

At Stratford the Overground North London Line, Jubilee Line, the two DLR routes and the Lea/Lee Valley services all terminate so there is no 'penalty' for them.

Only the DLR route arriving via Pudding Mill Lane terminates at Stratford. The other, arriving via West Ham carries on for one further station to terminate at Stratford International.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Only the DLR route arriving via Pudding Mill Lane terminates at Stratford. The other, arriving via West Ham carries on for one further station to terminate at Stratford International.

The point is that the DLR route isn't going much further (to Brighton, Aldgate, St Pancras or wherever).

Anyway, I had always thought that Stratford International was in, err, y'know "Stratford". There's a bit of a clue in the name.

 

[Meerkat]

It was in Chiltern’s franchise as an aspirational project 20 years ago. The sheer cost of the project considering there is no level ground on the Chiltern Lines (is in a cutting which quickly becomes a viaduct and other properties are built right up to the boundary) almost certainly cripples any business case for building it. The station would definitely be useful but there are a hundred other things which would offer more value for money.

Why can't you 'just' link the existing stations with underground passages and travelators - an in station interchange would be vastly more attractive than wandering down and a London street.
Probably only worth it though if everything stopped (with attendant timetable issues and the land take for new platforms etc) and if there was some kind of rapid people mover from Willesden to Old Oak Common.

 

[JonathanH]

Why can't you 'just' link the existing stations with underground passages and travelators - an in station interchange would be vastly more attractive than wandering down and a London street.

It is just unnecessary because the interchange at street level isn't particularly inconvenient.

To put in underground passages and travelators, it is necessary to go under the three railways which is a lot of excavation to do. All the railways are below street level.

 

[zwk500]

Why can't you 'just' link the existing stations with underground passages and travelators - an in station interchange would be vastly more attractive than wandering down and a London street.
Probably only worth it though if everything stopped (with attendant timetable issues and the land take for new platforms etc) and if there was some kind of rapid people mover from Willesden to Old Oak Common.

Boring underground passages under active railways is going to be expensive, fiddly and ridiculously risky to any building in the surrounding area. How many people are making use of the existing Out of Station Interchange, and what is the likely impact of converting it to an in-station interchange?

 

[MarkyT]

Much more cost effective to make the street level interchange between the three existing stations more user friendly and pleasant, by slowing road traffic at crossings, giving pedestrians more priority on wider pavements, improving lighting and signage and sharing live passenger information between the stations. All these measures would also help to tie in the stations to the local urban fabric and other local transport such as buses and taxis.

 

[zwk500]

Much more cost effective to make the street level interchange between the three existing stations more user friendly and pleasant, by slowing road traffic at crossings, giving pedestrians more priority on wider pavements, improving lighting and signage and sharing live passenger information between the stations. All these measures would also help to tie in the stations to the local urban fabric and other local transport such as buses and taxis.

Tbh a lot of the footpath work has been done, judging by Google Street View. The only big thing that's missing is a Zebra crossing between the Overground and Underground stations, on one side or the other of Heritage Lane.

 

[JonathanH]

It might be noted that both the Thameslink and Overground stations have had major new buildings added in recent years of greater size than before so the railway is more prominent at street level and as noted above this has been combined with streetscape works.

 

[cle]

The Jubilee is the outlier now. And of course, on the other side of the road. The crossing is much improved, as of course, is the Overground station itself.

 

[philosopher]

Is it really needed?

The street level interchange is not too bad. Probably better to make sure the street furniture / layout is friendly for those with luggage, buggies, wheelchairs etc than spend millions (billions?) acquiring property and rerouting lines.

Compared to Stratford, there is not a lot at West Hampstead, it is a fairly typical suburban shopping street.

30 years ago, Stratford was very much a local shopping centre, probably not too different in scale from what the West Hampstead / Finchley Road / Swiss Cottage area is like today. Stratford of course did have loads of derelict land then ripe for development. West Hampstead could probably be developed a bit to make it more of a destination, but I agree it is never going to become a destination like Stratford.

 

[JonathanH]

30 years ago, Stratford was very much a local shopping centre, probably not too different in scale from what the West Hampstead / Finchley Road / Swiss Cottage area is like today. Stratford of course did have loads of derelict land then ripe for development. West Hampstead could probably be developed a bit to make it more of a destination, but I agree it is never going to become a destination like Stratford.

A station situated between the current day Finchley Road and West Hampstead stations could be built, replacing these two and Finchley Road & Frognal. The land currently accommodates a Homebase store and parking for the O2 Centre (which has never become the destination its owners probably hoped it would be) but it isn't well situated for the Overground line and comes at a point where there is a junction on the Midland route. The benefit of the upheaval caused by a replacement single station seems quite limited.

 

[Bald Rick]

It was looked at 35 years ago, and again more recently. It is not at all easy, not least because of several hundred million pounds of real estate that is in the way.

And it’s hardly a difficult interchange. I did it daily for years. It really wasn’t a problem.

Also, one of the largest passenger flows is Thameslink - Jubilee for Canary Wharf. That will disappear in a few weeks.

 

[Meerkat]

Much more cost effective to make the street level interchange between the three existing stations more user friendly and pleasant, by slowing road traffic at crossings, giving pedestrians more priority on wider pavements, improving lighting and signage and sharing live passenger information between the stations. All these measures would also help to tie in the stations to the local urban fabric and other local transport such as buses and taxis.

To most people it’s not an interchange if you have to leave the station, particularly if that means walking the streets of an unfamiliar urban area.

 

[JonathanH]

To most people it’s not an interchange if you have to leave the station, particularly if that means walking the streets of an unfamiliar urban area.

Yet it is arguably less complicated than changing between underground lines at Embankment.

How great is the perceived need for people unfamiliar with the location to change at West Hampstead? Does it really warrant a billion pounds being spent on making it one station just because some people don't see it as an interchange? How do people cope with changing trains in Wigan, connecting in Brixton and many other places where there is a need to exit and enter a station?

One particular memory of the second time I changed trains at West Hampstead (Jubilee line to North London Line on a Saturday morning in 1993) was that a large number of rugby supporters had found their way between the stations there to travel to Twickenham. This gave me the impression that people did use West Hampstead as a useful interchange. Having three separate stations doesn't negate that.

I must admit it takes a few visits to remember the ordering of the three stations but the Overground and Thameslink now have much more prominent entrances.

 

[Bald Rick]

I must admit it takes a few visits to remember the ordering of the three stations but the Overground and Thameslink now have much more prominent entrances.

For those who can’t read a map, maybe (I’m not suggesting you can’t!)

Anyway it’s easy. They are in Alphabetical order, south to north (J, N/O, T)

 

[Mikey C]

A station situated between the current day Finchley Road and West Hampstead stations could be built, replacing these two and Finchley Road & Frognal. The land currently accommodates a Homebase store and parking for the O2 Centre (which has never become the destination its owners probably hoped it would be) but it isn't well situated for the Overground line and comes at a point where there is a junction on the Midland route. The benefit of the upheaval caused by a replacement single station seems quite limited.

That whole development is about to be demolished and covered in flats!

To most people it’s not an interchange if you have to leave the station, particularly if that means walking the streets of an unfamiliar urban area.

It's well signposted, and the actual walk is very short and less "intimidating" than some other out of station interchanges (e.g. Hackney Downs to Central before the connection was built). The new entrance to the Thameslink station is on the right side for the other stations too.

 

[davews]

I did this interchange a while back and was somewhat worried how it would work out. But the walk outside through the streets was very well signposted and quite pleasant. Leave it as it is!

 

[baz962]

To most people it’s not an interchange if you have to leave the station, particularly if that means walking the streets of an unfamiliar urban area.

You make it sound like you need a map and loads of time. Until August I did that change daily. Out of Thameslink and turn right out of one entrance or left and right out of the other. 3 minutes platform to platform for Overground and you can see the sign from Thameslink and about another 30 seconds walk to the underground on the same road and almost opposite Overground.

 

[Meerkat]

That whole development is about to be demolished and covered in flats!


It's well signposted, and the actual walk is very short and less "intimidating" than some other out of station interchanges (e.g. Hackney Downs to Central before the connection was built). The new entrance to the Thameslink station is on the right side for the other stations too.

But inexperienced and more vulnerable passengers will just see it as walking the streets of outer London, that London that has all the stabbing in the papers.
But as someone pointed out that is more relevant if the interchange is for more infrequent and/or long distance passengers, which isn't hugely likely without a link to OOC.

 

[JonathanH]

But inexperienced and more vulnerable passengers will just see it as walking the streets of outer London, that London that has all the stabbing in the papers.

The streets of West Hampstead are no more dangerous with that regard than the underpasses or platforms at Stratford.

 

[baz962]

The streets of West Hampstead are no more dangerous with that regard than the underpasses or platforms at Stratford.

Glad you posted this. As an ex Overground driver and living in Bedfordshire , I made the change daily. Sometimes at around five am and also around midnight. I sometimes would get out of a taxi there in the early hours. Never once had a problem , but had a few at Stratford over the years. Actually at Willesden where I was based and the DC as well as the North London line and the underground interchange I had or saw more problems.

 

[Meerkat]

The streets of West Hampstead are no more dangerous with that regard than the underpasses or platforms at Stratford.

You know that, but to out of towners it is wandering down the streets of outer London, and nothing like as acceptable as an in station interchange.
Does it come up as an interchange on journey planners?

 

[Railwaysceptic]

You know that, but to out of towners it is wandering down the streets of outer London, and nothing like as acceptable as an in station interchange.
Does it come up as an interchange on journey planners?

One street, West End Lane, not several. The distances involved are yards, not miles. West Hampstead is a civilised area and is not in outer London.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Large numbers of people change trains at West Hampstead every day. How many people complain about it?

 

[Meerkat]

One street, West End Lane, not several. The distances involved are yards, not miles. West Hampstead is a civilised area and is not in outer London.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Large numbers of people change trains at West Hampstead every day. How many people complain about it?

You know that, the infrequent traveller from out of town is just going to see "you have to walk through the streets of outer London" and not be all that keen.
The question would be how many more would change if it was effectively one station and advertised as such.

But I admit it is unlikely to make sense except as part of a much bigger London Ring project (fast stops at Clapham Junction, Willesden, and West Hampstead, a people mover between Willesden and OOC), and that project would be too big to get past the moaning from the north about spending on London (even if it made their journeys south better).

 

[ChiefPlanner]

One street, West End Lane, not several. The distances involved are yards, not miles. West Hampstead is a civilised area and is not in outer London.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Large numbers of people change trains at West Hampstead every day. How many people complain about it?

Exactly - WHT to WH North London is one minor road to cross , a few yards further to cross the road to the Jubilee line. There are also good bus connections to many parts of London.

I have done this interchange very many times over the last 40 years and never , ever had any problem whatsoever. West Hampstead is a very desirable place to live , one I used to aspire to live in. If anything it is even more desirable these days , though one misses the "interesting" evenings in what used to be an excellent music pub called "The Railway".

(in passing - quite good interchanges done onto the North London line towards Richmond and beyond. Cheaper too avoiding Z1)