How much has through running pushed up Elizabeth Line Ridership?

[Taunton]

Canada Water is no longer the overloaded point it once was, because those from the Overground can now pretty much always get in the next Jubilee train; previously the issue was these trains coming in completely full and people being unable to board. Outside the peaks, I have always found it one of the best interchanges along the JLE; it's far quicker and shorter between trains than Whitechapel is.

One of the benefits of doing the Whitechapel Shuffle to get from Canary Wharf to the Central Line, however, is they are both cross-platform interchanges - in fact, the only ones on the Elizabeth line overall!

 

[Horizon22]

Canada Water is no longer the overloaded point it once was, because those from the Overground can now pretty much always get in the next Jubilee train; previously the issue was these trains coming in completely full and people being unable to board. Outside the peaks, I have always found it one of the best interchanges along the JLE; it's far quicker and shorter between trains than Whitechapel is.

It can certainly be quicker, but as you say it was often so overloaded that that speed element was negated by the sheer number of people.

 

[Thirteen]

I would imagine that once they build the connection to Poplar DLR Station, that'll open a number of connections to Canary Wharf EL Station.

 

[bicbasher]

It can certainly be quicker, but as you say it was often so overloaded that that speed element was negated by the sheer number of people.

I'd always end up going from the northbound ELL up to the ticket office level and then down the two sets of escalators to the Jubilee due to the sheer wait of passengers waiting to go down the single escalator to the Jubilee.

The interchange was designed for the old LU East London Line which wouldn't have been crush loaded from New Cross/New Cross Gate rather than serving passengers from West Croydon or Clapham Junction on London Overground.

 

[Acton1991]

My local station, Acton Main Line is significantly busier now through-running has occurred. It's astonishing really - only a few years ago, it was a ghost town most of the time. This will only increase as there is significant housing development occurring opposite the station.

My only guess is that customers are now using the Elizabeth line vs Central at North/West Acton. Some days in the morning peak it's difficult to get on at Acton Main Line (the design of the interior door open button not helping things either - when someone is leaning against it, the door cannot be opened from the platform).

 

[danielcanning]

View attachment 127537
With times like these (google maps) I doubt many people are doing the whole journey,
I think through running probably benefits people for Heathrow and closer towns than from Reading

There's still a lot less demand going towards or from Eastern stations which isn't that surprising, considering that people have never really gone that way and also that Liverpool Street / The City is more of a hub than Paddington is. A lot of people who were previously going towards Paddington were changing for the tube anyway to get deeper into Central London and/or Canary Wharf the City which I think explains some of that.

Canary Wharf seems pretty "peaky" to me and dies down significantly after 09:30. That being said its becoming a lot more of a destination in its own right, so I think give it 18-24 months and off-peak will increase more. I'm not sure whether the double change at Stratford/Whitechapel is a bit off-putting still. As for Whitechapel I only think its busier because a) that's the agreed interchange point and b) more shifting of the Overground interchange further north rather than Canada Water (which is a bit of a nightmare).

I'd disagree on the busiest core station - would suggest it is probably TCR.



Yeah Reading & Slough are obvious trains to catch a fast (or semi-fast) GWR and change, Maidenhead is more marginal and then anything inner isn't served by GWR very frequently anyway so makes sense to just remain on the train.

Might be interesting if the GWR semi-fast train to Didcot Parkway goes fast to Slough in May '23 as has been mooted as to whether that changes anything.

I travel quite regularly to Reading and Oxford, the only reason I use the Elizabeth Line is because my Freedom Pass is valid on the entire length of the line, to be honest I'm surprised TfL haven't withdrawn validity west of West Drayton.

 

[LiftFan]

Yeah Reading & Slough are obvious trains to catch a fast (or semi-fast) GWR and change, Maidenhead is more marginal and then anything inner isn't served by GWR very frequently anyway so makes sense to just remain on the train.

Might be interesting if the GWR semi-fast train to Didcot Parkway goes fast to Slough in May '23 as has been mooted as to whether that changes anything

I'd say it'll be interesting in a few year's time when they've built and opened Old Oak Common. If they stop the GWR high speed services there people might find it quicker than going to Paddington and having to make the relatively long walk to the EL from the main concourse.

 

[gazzaa2]

With such long trains and entry / exit at platform ends in many cases I think there are some issues with passenger distribution. For example, I travelled from Tottenham Court Road to Stratford around 0840 on Thursday towards the front of the train and noted that the platform at Farringdon was decidedly busier at the west end than the east end as we went through, as would be expected given the entry point.

Same on most trains

 

[AlastairFraser]

I'd say it'll be interesting in a few year's time when they've built and opened Old Oak Common. If they stop the GWR high speed services there people might find it quicker than going to Paddington and having to make the relatively long walk to the EL from the main concourse.

Remember there is also the facility with a moderately sized investment to extend trains currently turning back at Westbourne Park to Old Oak Common in any case, if it gets a little busy.

 

[stuu]

Whitechapel seems surprisingly busy, while Canary Wharf always seems surprisingly quiet. The retail units in Canary Wharf station, open for some years, tell me they have not seen much of an uptick since the trains started running. Having waited for ever for the station to open, they are now resigned to waiting further until the big commercial development on the north side of the station, where construction work has now started, is finished. It is however a lot easier to get into Jubilee Line trains on the east end now, where various routing combinations are now handled better. From Canary Wharf, unless going to Waterloo itself, we never seem to use it much any more.

I was at CW before Christmas at ~530 and there was a delay heading west so no train for about 9 minutes. The platform was rammed, like the Jubilee used to get pre-pandemic. When the train came in, anyone who wanted to get on could, which is a big difference with the Jubilee, although some must have chosen to wait for the next one a minute behind

Off peak it is eerily quiet though

 

[davetheguard]

It hardly matters does it?

Despite the stupid name, it's not a tube line.

It most certainly DOES matter if you're travelling on a ticket valid on National Rail (& therefore Elizabeth Line), but not valid on the Tube!

 

[Railwaysceptic]

Remember there is also the facility with a moderately sized investment to extend trains currently turning back at Westbourne Park to Old Oak Common in any case, if it gets a little busy.

I thought that was the basic idea; that trains would no longer terminate at Westbourne Park.

 

[Ralph Ayres]

Politicians out west in Hillingdon are now pushing for express bus routes to feed in to Elizabeth line stations. The exact aim is unclear (and it's partly a way of having a dig at TfL and the Mayor) but it seems they think that's a better way to reach central London than using a nearby Met or Central line station.

 

[Taunton]

Politicians out west in Hillingdon are now pushing for express bus routes to feed in to Elizabeth line stations. The exact aim is unclear (and it's partly a way of having a dig at TfL and the Mayor) but it seems they think that's a better way to reach central London than using a nearby Met or Central line station.

Much of urban Hillingdon, along the Uxbridge Road, is nowhere near railway or Underground, and there was a longstanding express bus along this road that went all the way to Shepherds Bush and the Central Line. It does seem reasonable to realign routes to feed into the Elizabeth stations.

 

[Benjwri]

to be honest I'm surprised TfL haven't withdrawn validity west of West Drayton.

I highly doubt TfL is allowed to deny the use of the Freedom Pass on any of their services, I believe it's allowed on all their services at the moment.

 

[Taunton]

I highly doubt TfL is allowed to deny the use of the Freedom Pass on any of their services, I believe it's allowed on all their services at the moment.

An interesting detail. Neither the 60+ card nor Oyster are valid beyond London limits at West Drayton, so not apparent why this pass is an outlier. One would expect all or nothing. The gates beyond London do not recognise the Freedom Pass either, it is necessary to be manually let through, which among other things must lose the record of what usage is being made.

 

[Horizon22]

I travel quite regularly to Reading and Oxford, the only reason I use the Elizabeth Line is because my Freedom Pass is valid on the entire length of the line, to be honest I'm surprised TfL haven't withdrawn validity west of West Drayton.

TFL could hardly do that when a TfL branded service runs beyond the Greater London boundary. Would be very weird communications.

I thought that was the basic idea; that trains would no longer terminate at Westbourne Park.

It is.

Much of urban Hillingdon, along the Uxbridge Road, is nowhere near railway or Underground, and there was a longstanding express bus along this road that went all the way to Shepherds Bush and the Central Line. It does seem reasonable to realign routes to feed into the Elizabeth stations.

Does the 607 bus get relatively close to these areas?

 

[Acton1991]

Does the 607 bus get relatively close to these areas?

It passes directly past Ealing Broadway station, but could definitely be re-routed further out to service other EL stations.

 

[Benjwri]

Neither the 60+ card nor Oyster are valid beyond London limits at West Drayton, so not apparent why this pass is an outlier. One would expect all or nothing.

At a guess the Freedom Pass is not something TfL willingly implemented, and the terms under which they operate make them accept it on all their services, therefore as the Elizabeth Line is a TfL service they have to accept it. Oyster is a technical limitation, and 60+ Oyster cards are a TfL creation so they have more control.

 

[Horizon22]

It passes directly past Ealing Broadway station, but could definitely be re-routed further out to service other EL stations.

I meant towards Uxbridge where it terminates in reference to the "longstanding express bus" which I'm pretty sure is the service the person I was quoting was refering to, and still exists.

 

[AlastairFraser]

I thought that was the basic idea; that trains would no longer terminate at Westbourne Park.

It will stretch capacity on the GWML reliefs though.

 

[Basil Jet]

Politicians out west in Hillingdon are now pushing for express bus routes to feed in to Elizabeth line stations. The exact aim is unclear (and it's partly a way of having a dig at TfL and the Mayor) but it seems they think that's a better way to reach central London than using a nearby Met or Central line station.

Even back in the late 1990s all of Hillingdon's transport documents were obsessed with improved north-south links within the borough (but never to neighbouring boroughs). I think Hillingdon would rather build an impenetrable wall around itself than help anyone get to the Elizabeth Line, but if they can get TfL to fund improved north-south links within the borough, they'll have a piece of that.

 

[Taunton]

I was at CW before Christmas at ~530 and there was a delay heading west so no train for about 9 minutes. The platform was rammed, like the Jubilee used to get pre-pandemic. When the train came in, anyone who wanted to get on could, which is a big difference with the Jubilee, although some must have chosen to wait for the next one a minute behind

Off peak it is eerily quiet though

Came through Canary Wharf at 1715 yesterday, so paid a bit of attention to the platform, Tuesday being one of the current "busier days" in offices. There was quite a significant flow for the westbound, though nothing like the old Jubilee crush. Notable that the platform was completely cleared by each train, with no hold up to dwell time. Meanwhile few users for the eastbound (surprising), and very few alighting - some Up escalators to the surface even at this time were often completely empty. The dual entrances at east and west ends certainly help the flow.

 

[absolutelymilk]

BBC News - Elizabeth line: Commuters say service 'not what was promised'
BBC are now picking up on the overcrowding.

Anyone know what Westbound destination the extra 2tph from May will serve? (When it goes up from 22 to 24tph)

 

[stuu]

BBC News - Elizabeth line: Commuters say service 'not what was promised'
BBC are now picking up on the overcrowding.

Anyone know what Westbound destination the extra 2tph from May will serve? (When it goes up from 22 to 24tph)

I wonder if this is because people got the impression they would be getting tube frequencies on the GWML? When the reality is every ~6 minutes at best, and not for every station

 

[danielcanning]

I wonder if this is because people got the impression they would be getting tube frequencies on the GWML? When the reality is every ~6 minutes at best, and not for every station

All the publicity for Crossrail stressed the commonalities between the Elizabeth Line and the Tube so is it any surprise that passengers are disappointed when they don't get what was advertised?

 

[Alfie1014]

Recent complaints on GA‘s Twitter feed that it is difficult to find space Shenfield station car park, EL effect I wonder? My bell weather of GEML commuting is Ingatestone car park which I estimate is now 85-90% full on TWTho.

 

[setdown]

I wonder if this is because people got the impression they would be getting tube frequencies on the GWML? When the reality is every ~6 minutes at best, and not for every station

It feels like most days there's disruption of some sort, speaking from the western side. I've noticed that they've started to skip stations in the morning peak to get to Paddington on time, but when most trains are so busy, remove a train or two and the remaining services are absolutely horrible to use.

 

[Benjwri]

It will stretch capacity on the GWML reliefs though.

I believe the plan is to CTBC up to Old Oak Common, and therefore give it the same capacity as the core section. The Reliefs will be XR only anyways as GWR stoppers are becoming semi fast from May.

 

[FOH]

With almost double the numbers expected on ridership and Aventras still in production I wonder if the extra 2 carriage extensions will get signed off sooner rather than later ...