How smart are gateline e-ticket readers?

[Adam Williams]

One of the issues was that certain parts of the industry were against the introduction of smart ticketing and did the bare minimum in terms of cost/funding to achieve compliance.

I'd have thought that the levy retailers are required to pay for each and every UTN went reasonably far towards funding these sorts of things.

The other development that the industry is slowly digesting is that smart ticketing is moving a lot of the revenue protection activity to the back office and data based. Less conflict, violence and interruptions to the customer experience than sending heavies through a carriage or blocking an exit, especially when the vast majority of journeys are completely fine.

Data analysis/anomaly detection definitely has its place, but I fear people (who aren't software engineers) get a bit too excited about "big data", "AI" and other buzzwords here.

 

[Sonic1234]

One of the issues was that certain parts of the industry were against the introduction of smart ticketing and did the bare minimum in terms of cost/funding to achieve compliance.

You'll still find a decent number of GTR and SE tickets where you can't buy an e-ticket.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

I'd have thought that the levy retailers are required to pay for each and every UTN went reasonably far towards funding these sorts of things.


Data analysis/anomaly detection definitely has its place, but I fear people (who aren't software engineers) get a bit too excited about "big data", "AI" and other buzzwords here.

The gatelines are a money pit because of Cubic, even to the point that ORR got concerned, which is why the industry now has to find workarounds using additional technology/hardware.

Until the existing gates are completely removed or replaced by an alternative manufacturer that doesn't seemingly abuse their dominant market position, improvements will have to be focused elsewhere.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Sure sounds to me like a useless gateline if it can't do anything with the discount status code in the barcode payload

I can't say I've ever worked on a gateline but being able to do a revenue block and check for people's railcards / discount entitlements sounds like a fairly fundamental requirement for revenue protection.

I assume the LNER S&B gates can do it?

Indeed they can. S&B work. Dry differently to Cubic gates, they see a ticket either ITSO Barcode or CCST and compare it against the tariff. I believe there is a different tariff for each fulfilment method with Cubic

 

[Haywain]

I can't say I've ever worked on a gateline but being able to do a revenue block and check for people's railcards / discount entitlements sounds like a fairly fundamental requirement for revenue protection.

Can't argue that the functionality should be there.

You'll still find a decent number of GTR and SE tickets where you can't buy an e-ticket.

That's because Southeastern are late adopters and GTR wanted their gatelines equipped before adding eTickets for the stations..

 

[jnjkerbin]

Southeastern, as of a couple of weeks ago, now offer eTickets between all their stations (and about time too!)

 

[johntea]

Indeed they can. S&B work. Dry differently to Cubic gates, they see a ticket either ITSO Barcode or CCST and compare it against the tariff. I believe there is a different tariff for each fulfilment method with Cubic

Slightly off topic but relating to gate logic, I was surprised yesterday when I had a (magstripe) advance LNER single from Doncaster to Wakefield Westgate, put it through the barriers at Westgate expecting them to swallow it but they kindly returned it to me!

There would be no reason for me to require it after that point other than perhaps a transfer to Wakefield Kirkgate (curiously the ticket does state 'Wakefield Stations' rather than Westgate specifically but I'm not actually sure if it would then be valid to make the transfer via a Northern service)

 

[Alex365Dash]

There would be no reason for me to require it after that point other than perhaps a transfer to Wakefield Kirkgate (curiously the ticket does state 'Wakefield Stations' rather than Westgate specifically but I'm not actually sure if it would then be valid to make the transfer via a Northern service)

Not on Northern - the ticket would be valid on a non-reservable LNER service to Kirkgate, but that doesn’t exist.

 

[crablab]

Not on Northern - the ticket would be valid on a non-reservable LNER service to Kirkgate, but that doesn’t exist.

Unless it has a specific itinerary for that leg it would be valid on any Northern service for interchange purposes.
And "reservable" or otherwise has no bearing on validity.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Slightly off topic but relating to gate logic, I was surprised yesterday when I had a (magstripe) advance LNER single from Doncaster to Wakefield Westgate, put it through the barriers at Westgate expecting them to swallow it but they kindly returned it to me!

There would be no reason for me to require it after that point other than perhaps a transfer to Wakefield Kirkgate (curiously the ticket does state 'Wakefield Stations' rather than Westgate specifically but I'm not actually sure if it would then be valid to make the transfer via a Northern service)

LNER don't keep tickets, theres no reason to and it just makes work, plus you may need it for delay repay.

 

[OscarH]

Unless it has a specific itinerary for that leg it would be valid on any Northern service for interchange purposes.
And "reservable" or otherwise has no bearing on validity.

I'm not sure that's true if the ticket was AP LNER rather than AP LNER&CONNECTIONS

 

[Alex365Dash]

Unless it has a specific itinerary for that leg it would be valid on any Northern service for interchange purposes.
And "reservable" or otherwise has no bearing on validity.

I'm not sure that's true if the ticket was AP LNER rather than AP LNER&CONNECTIONS

All LNER Advances for that flow have the route code 00481 LNER TRAINS ONLY, so you can’t use Northern anyway on that ticket.

I thought you can only use Advance tickets on reservable services if it’s one of your booked trains?

 

[crablab]

I'm referring to the Routeing Guide here, which allows for interchange between group stations - as Wakefield Westgate/Kirkgate are.

Because the ticket is valid to all stations in the group for interchange purposes, the OP would be able to turn up at Kirkgate and expect to be able to travel to Westgate to use the rest of their itinerary - that's the point of Group Stations.

 

[Haywain]

I'm referring to the Routeing Guide here, which allows for interchange between group stations - as Wakefield Westgate/Kirkgate are.

Because the ticket is valid to all stations in the group for interchange purposes, the OP would be able to turn up at Kirkgate and expect to be able to travel to Westgate to use the rest of their itinerary - that's the point of Group Stations.

The Routeing Guide does not override the TOC restriction on the tickets though, so while one could turn up at Kirkgate to commence an LNER journey there is likely to be an extremely long wait for a suitable train.