How were track gauges chosen?

[AndrewE]

I wonder if your source is also responsible for the myth that the word vokzal entered Russian railway vocabulary after this 1842 visit to the LSWR.

That is certainly what I was taught when I did Russian 'O' level. Do you know of a more plausible explanantion?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

That is certainly what I was taught when I did Russian 'O' level. Do you know of a more plausible explanantion?

I'd always thought that the Russian word вокзал (= 'Vokzal') was derived from the word / London place name 'Vauxhall' which location, in turn, was once known as 'Fox Hall' and, before that, 'Faulke's Hall', this after a supporter of King John.

In that area of South London, there was once a large pleasure garden known as Vauxhall Gardens (1785 - 1859), long since built over.

When a similar pleasure garden was established in St. Petersburg in the late 18th century, it was also called 'Vokzal' in homage to the existing one in London, and subsequently, when a connecting rail line from St. Petersburg to the Russian garden was built, the terminus station was also called 'Vokzal', which eventually became the generic word for all substantially built Russian railway stations, as well as, I believe, amusement parks.

 

[AndrewE]

That sounds equally or more plausible. My version was probably the one dumbed down for school consumption - although it came from an ex-Eastern bloc interpreter (later language teacher in the UK) and was passed on at evening class about 20 years ago.

 

[Calthrop]

I'd always thought that the Russian word вокзал (= 'Vokzal') was derived from the word / London place name 'Vauxhall' which location, in turn, was once known as 'Fox Hall' and, before that, 'Faulke's Hall', this after a supporter of King John.

In that area of South London, there was once a large pleasure garden known as Vauxhall Gardens (1785 - 1859), long since built over.

When a similar pleasure garden was established in St. Petersburg in the late 18th century, it was also called 'Vokzal' in homage to the existing one in London, and subsequently, when a connecting rail line from St. Petersburg to the Russian garden was built, the terminus station was also called 'Vokzal', which eventually became the generic word for all substantially built Russian railway stations, as well as, I believe, amusement parks.

The two rival explanations (St. Petersburg joint; and Russian fact-finders and 1840s London temporary terminus) for Russian "vokzal = station"; would seem to be the two top "correct derivation" contenders. I'm apt to favour the "St. Petersburg Vokzal Gardens" one -- but tend to think, "who knows? -- and this long after, it will never be known for sure".

The "why 'vokzal'?" question, has been discussed on various threads in the Forums, over the years. In one, a few years ago, someone came up with yet another suggested explanation -- generally reckoned there, a "rank outsider" -- the idea advanced, that the word was from the Dutch wacht zaal = [railway] waiting room. Overall view was, "10 for ingenuity -- 0 for common sense".

Getting ever further from history of choosing of gauges; but -- another Russian-language-borrowing matter: it would seem that at least for a spell in relatively recent history, a Russian-language colloquialism for "railway station", was "bahn" -- part of the German word Bahnhof = railway station. I think I came upon this, in reading Solzhenitsyn's Gulag Archipelago -- for me at any rate; while harrowing -- not a non-stop nothing-but-misery-and-horror-fest: horror in abundance; but Solzhenitsyn seems to have been a positive kind of guy, and "a lover of all things" -- Gulag contains, "as well as", lots of humour and interestingly crazy "trivia" stuff. In even the most hideous wars, some vocabulary-swapping tends to happen between the opposing sides and their different languages: in the World-War-II-and-after era, the USSR's -- lively and flourishing -- criminal underworld, seized on "bahn" for railway station: big rail stations tending then, to be places where the bad lads congregated and did their stuff. Hence a ditty, popular among those "gentry" in the 1940s / 50s -- English translation: "Oh, yes, at the Bahn; I was there at the Bahn; I ate and drank well and..." [there follows a patch of extreme obscenity].

 

[Ken H]

Ukraine and Russia both use 1520mm. When they write the histories of the current war, it will be interesting to see the role of the railways, and also what countermeasures were employed to thwart their use.

 

[edwin_m]

Ukraine and Russia both use 1520mm. When they write the histories of the current war, it will be interesting to see the role of the railways, and also what countermeasures were employed to thwart their use.

The break of gauge at Ukraine's western borders is one of the obstacles to getting grain and other exports out by land, and may also be hindering imports of armaments but people probably keep quiet about that part.

The former Soviet Union uses 1520mm, although a Latvian official once corrected me when I mentioned "Russian gauge" and apparently they still use the pre-1970 1524mm (a case where the difference is within tolerances so has no practical effect on interworking). Much re-gauging took place in those central European territories that swung between domination by Russia and by other powers during the 20th century. This continues in the way the EU is funding the Rail Baltica project to link Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia (and perhaps ultimately Finland via a long undersea tunnel) into the 1435mm network in Poland.

 

[oldman]

The two rival explanations (St. Petersburg joint; and Russian fact-finders and 1840s London temporary terminus) for Russian "vokzal = station"; would seem to be the two top "correct derivation" contenders. I'm apt to favour the "St. Petersburg Vokzal Gardens" one -- but tend to think, "who knows? -- and this long after, it will never be known for sure".

There really is no doubt.

1 The word voksal (for an entertainment venue) existed in Russian long before railways, and there were a number of voksals in SPB.
2 The promoter of the first passenger railway included a voksal at Pavlovsk in his plan, to generate traffic.
3 In 1836 newspapers were announcing trial trips on the incomplete railway 'from the voksal at Pavlovsk'. There would be heated rooms at the voksal serving wine and snacks at reasonable prices.
4 In 1837 a progress report used voksal for the building at Pavlovsk but stantsiya for the buildings at Tsarskoy Selo and the city terminus. There is no distinction between railway and entertainment facilities at Pavlovsk - it's all the voksal.
5 Anyone involved in railway development in Russia would know all about the Pavlovsk voksal and would not be hearing the word for the first time in 1842.
6 In 1851 official documents are still using stantsiya for the terminuses of the Moscow-SPB line.

I suspect the originator of the myth didn't know any of the above, or maybe even about the Vauxhall Gardens, so they invented something to fit what they did know.