How would you refurbish a Pendolino?

[aylesbury]

Friday I traveled from Milton Keynes to Glasgow Central (in 1st class). Whilst the interior was clean and tidy, it could obviously do with a refurbishment.

Any ideas on what form this could take?

 

[O L Leigh]

With a gas axe.

O L Leigh

 

[najaB]

Any ideas on what form this could take?

I'd love it if the overhead storage racks could be made a bit bigger. They are just way too small.

 

[Harpers Tate]

That problem (an artefact of the interior roof profile) is true of the Voyager" (etc) trains as well. Unfortunately on most rolling stock there is woefully insufficient alternative space for larger items as well. They are quite unsuited to their purpose when busy.

So - FEWER seats (controversial!), greater legroom, and far, far more space for luggage. In Standard Class a far greater proportion of table seating with attendant luggage space between seat backs might be a good start.

Oh, and Pendos need windows to replace the portholes.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I'd rip out first class, and replace ALL seating with 2+3 bus benches as fitted to the pacers when new- with only the centre pair facing, with no tables.

 

[Techniquest]

Serious question, how do they need a refurbishment? I've not noticed this on my travels on 390s, Standard or First, so what's clearly so wrong I'm missing?

As for the windows, I don't find them too small, although I have noticed they're smaller than on a MK3 of course.

 

[jopsuk]

If you were to fit them with fewer seats (for more luggage and leg room), you'd need to extend every set 11 cars and buy enough such that there were no more "under the wires" Voyager workings. And possibly a few more, with extra peak time paths conjured out of thin air.

 

[najaB]

If you were to fit them with fewer seats (for more luggage and leg room), you'd need to extend every set 11 cars and buy enough such that there were no more "under the wires" Voyager workings. And possibly a few more, with extra peak time paths conjured out of thin air.

That depends on how many fewer seats you were providing. Convert one first class carriage to standard class and take a row or two of seats out of each of the existing standard carriages. It wouldn't have a massive impact on the total number of standard class seats and would give you space to play with in the standard carriages. And it's not like first-class is regularly packed to the rafters as is.

 

[zn1]

a half first class coach at each end. seating to the standard Mk3 layout...so that the Pack em in tight is eliminated...at seat lighting, better luggage stowage....but there are constraints due to the tilt coach profiling...reactolite windows...and an end to the endless automated announcements telling the same thing....all you need to hear is when u get on is where its going, what time its due to get in, and what the next stop is...and the stewards spiel

 

[Aictos]

I would firstly extend all existing 9 car sets to 11 car sets before then placing a order for 18 Class 390s as 9 car sets which would cascade the Class 221s to another operator likely Cross Country so they can double up more services which need it.

I believe Coach G sometimes can be declassified, I would make it a permanent fixture providing more Standard Class seating then is currently provided.

Other then that, I wouldn't touch them at all with regards to a refurbishment.

 

[Jones]

With a gas axe.

Beat me to it

 

[455driver]

With a gas axe.

O L Leigh

Exactly what I thought when I read the title!

 

[gordonthemoron]

more power sockets, convert 1 first class coach to standard, have a proper restaurant available to all customers more luggage space

 

[DarloRich]

With a gas axe.

O L Leigh

This - or explosive redevelopment!

 

[Dave1987]

With a gas axe.

O L Leigh

Well said!! The most claustrophobic trains ever, tiny overhead storage.

Travelled one one the other day from New St to Euston and was actually surprised I managed to get a seat with a window.

 

[dk1]

We all sit there looking a iPads etc nowadays so who cares about windows. Less seats mean less profit means higher fares. Few niggles with rack sizes but as they need to tilt space has to be compromised. They're fast though so that's good for me.

 

[DarloRich]

As i doubt the leasing company will want to let me loose with some cutting torches thinking sensibly what can be done to make the trains better:

1) Lighting and internal decoration. The current colours and lighting make the train feel dank and cave like. Surely you need to have uplifting lighting and light airy colours

2) Better seats - the current ones are thin, cheap and nasty and padded with yesterdays paper. Get better ones.

3) Remove the guards office to the dead space at the coach A end

4) Reduce the number of first class carriages by at least 1

5) make them all 11 cars

6) more plug sockets - one for every seat

7) Try and provide more luggage racks and make the overhead bins bigger

8) Try and aline the seats with the windows (as far as possible)

9) Get a more sensible internal door opening button and put a sensitive edge on the door so it doesn't shut on people!

10) The shop seems to take up a lot of space - make it smaller

 

[cjmillsnun]

We all sit there looking a iPads etc nowadays so who cares about windows. Less seats mean less profit means higher fares. Few niggles with rack sizes but as they need to tilt space has to be compromised. They're fast though so that's good for me.

I care about windows as do many others. I like to see outside when I travel and get quite miffed when I get on a train where I get a bodyside view rather than a window view.

I also care about the size of the windows, and would rather be a few minutes later, having had a more comfortable ride, with a nice big window and more space to stretch out than in a cramped box with maybe just a bit of a tiny window.

Fact, the Mk3s loco and DVT held more pax than the 9 coach pendos. The Mk2 sets did as well.

The Mk4s show how it should be done with a tilt profile. Slightly cramped but the window size is decent.

 

[route:oxford]

Surely, in Standard Class, at least half of all seats will be aisle seats anyway?

I appreciate, for those who do like to watch the world go by, it must be more difficult if they weren't blessed with a decent set of genes by their parents and can't see over the seat in front.

 

[455driver]

Travelled one one the other day from New St to Euston and was actually surprised I managed to get a seat with a window.

Come on be honest, you drove it didnt you!

 

[edwin_m]

I think the body profile is a bit of a red herring. Class 222s manage a much more spacious interior in a body that is also dimensioned for tilt*. However the structure of the Pendolino seems to require some rather obtrusive partitions as well as the small windows, limited overhead rack space (though this isn't great on a 222 either) and very thick side walls.

Given that these probably can't be changed, I would look at changing the colour of the interior panelling which reminds me so much of a pub before the smoking ban. Also there is probably some scope to rearrange the seating and luggage racks to improve the luggage space and align seats better with windows. And as mentioned a power socket at each seat, or at least for each pair of seats not just the tables.

*for the avoidance of spurious corrections 222s don't themselves tilt but have the same profile as 221s that do

 

[Techniquest]

I must concur with everyone saying the 390s need more power sockets, most frustrating when you're in dire need of charging your phone and you can't get to one.

I don't know whether I was just stood in the right manner or not, but I didn't have that problem of vestibule doors closing on me on Monday. Might help I'm a little larger than most people

Definitely would be easier to have all 390s with 11 coaches to avoid the annoying situation of a 9-car set turning up vice 11-car 390s. As for the member who claimed to be lucky to get a table seat next to a window on a New Street to Euston 390, that's not difficult if you (a) get on one which starts at BHM and (b) if you arrive at the right time. Leave it until a few minutes before departure and you've no hope.

 

[Bob Ames]

Would USB charging sockets be any use (would be easier to incorporate between the seats than standard power sockets)?

 

[Techniquest]

With more and more phones in use with USB charger cables coming into use every day, that does seem sensible. Not sure exactly if mine's USB or not, but ought to be

 

[starrymarkb]

The only Pendolino I've experienced is the Swiss Bombardier RABDe500 (a locally built Pendolino under licence from Alstom)

The Windows seemed a decent size but was surprised that there were only small tables!

 

[Dave1987]

I do understand they they are fast, but I really dont think they were designed well at all. Like other people have said the storage is lousy unless you luggage consists of a bag of crisps. The seats are comfortable but the lack of windows and the fact if you stand up there is no chance of seeing where you are is a real bug bear. I've heard that Mr Branson told Alstom he want them to look like an aeroplane so specified small windows. Also they do have too many first class coaches and the shop does take up too much room. If they could modify them properly they could be nice trains but at the moment I agree a gas axe would offer the best improvement.

At least they don't have a disabled loo in every coach.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Come on be honest, you drove it didnt you!

Ow that's why I had such a good view was it?

 

[iguana]

With a gas axe.

As a constructive way of refurbishing a Pendo, that's hard to beat.

My suggestion:

Plate over all the windows. Cut large access doors. Rip out the interior and refit to take BRUTEs (or whatever the modern equivalent is). Repaint in Royal Mail livery. Use for express parcels/letters. Buy something better.

What, using them for parcels won't deliver enough profit? So sorry about that - the ROSCO concerned will just have the take the hit like a grownup, for having invested in such passenger-unfriendly trains. I mean, this is what would actually happen if there was actually any passenger choice between a Pendo and something less horrible to travel in.

 

[Wolfie]

I think many of the responses to this thread take the award for the moist pathetic load of bilge I have ever read! The very same people who defend Northern Rail and their clapped out heaps of junk (yes, I know about the no growth franchise!) - they must be good because they were built by BR! - slag off some of the most modern and efficient stock on the network.

Sorry but try asking the individuals who use the trains regularly rather than a few opinionated "enthusiasts". Opinions are like bumholes.....

Your precious Mk3s (particularly with the original awful seats with the damn irritating fixed armrest) do not meet modern safety standards - fact! Mk4s do not meet modern safety standards and for a long time the aircon was rubbish, failing constantly and repeatedly sucking in brake fumes, and the seats were and still remain dire...

 

[talltim]

Yeah, but they have windows...

 

[Dave1987]

I think many of the responses to this thread take the award for the moist pathetic load of bilge I have ever read! The very same people who defend Northern Rail and their clapped out heaps of junk (yes, I know about the no growth franchise!) - they must be good because they were built by BR! - slag off some of the most modern and efficient stock on the network.

Sorry but try asking the individuals who use the trains regularly rather than a few opinionated "enthusiasts". Opinions are like bumholes.....

Your precious Mk3s (particularly with the original awful seats with the damn irritating fixed armrest) do not meet modern safety standards - fact! Mk4s do not meet modern safety standards and for a long time the aircon was rubbish, failing constantly and repeatedly sucking in brake fumes, and the seats were and still remain dire...

So I gather because they are "modern and shiny" and come with wifi and plug sockets you love them. Isn't the MK3 coach hailed as being the best design in history.

Like I said before they would be fine if they decent luggage space and decent sized windows, or would you rather travel in a metal tube with no natural light? Other modern trains manage to be efficient and well designed, but with the pendo's they failed miserably in my opinion.