HS1 domestic trains: why do some HS1 trains skip Ebbsfleet and/or Stratford? Also, could Highspeed could call at fewer stations?

[NorthKent1989]

I’d have thought these would have been consistent stops, I now domestic hs1 trains don’t skip Ashford but I did notice that some trains do miss out Ebbsfleet and/or Stratford.

 

[CarrotPie]

I’d have thought these would have been consistent stops, I now domestic hs1 trains don’t skip Ashford but I did notice that some trains do miss out Ebbsfleet and/or Stratford.

The only ones I can see skipping stations are 1J11/1J15 MAR-STP and 1J92/1J94 STP-MAR, which skip Ebbsfleet (but not Stratford). Ebbsfleet is still sort of in the middle of nowhere, and it's not used nearly as much as Stratford (1.6m vs. 2.5m). The main reason I can think of, however, is the journey time penalty of stopping there: TVM likes to get you down in lots of time, then there's a 90-second dwell, then you have to get back up to line speed again. I remember pre-COVID, some peak services used to run non-stop Ebbsfleet to Rochester and there were many STP-AFK fast services too, but SE seems intent on running down their Highspeed offering as much as possible...

 

[NorthKent1989]

The only ones I can see skipping stations are 1J11/1J15 MAR-STP and 1J92/1J94 STP-MAR, which skip Ebbsfleet (but not Stratford). Ebbsfleet is still sort of in the middle of nowhere, and it's not used nearly as much as Stratford (1.6m vs. 2.5m). The main reason I can think of, however, is the journey time penalty of stopping there: TVM likes to get you down in lots of time, then there's a 90-second dwell, then you have to get back up to line speed again. I remember pre-COVID, some peak services used to run non-stop Ebbsfleet to Rochester and there were many STP-AFK fast services too, but SE seems intent on running down their Highspeed offering as much as possible...

So Margate via Canterbury trains are the ones that generally skip Ebbsfleet them.

I actually think the Highspeed could call at fewer stations on its Medway-Thanet run, after Gillingham perhaps calling only at Faversham, Whitstable, Herne Bay and Westgate?

 

[CarrotPie]

I actually think the Highspeed could call at fewer stations on its Medway-Thanet run, after Gillingham perhaps calling only at Faversham, Whitstable, Herne Bay and Westgate?

The problem there is connections: while Rainham could be skipped (much to the chagrin of Rainhamians, I expect), Sittingbourne provides connections to the Isle of Sheppey. Margate and Broadstairs are also must-calls.

 

[NorthKent1989]

The problem there is connections: while Rainham could be skipped (much to the chagrin on Rainhamians, I expect), Sittingbourne provides connections to the Isle of Sheppey. Margate and Broadstairs are also must-calls.

Oh absolutely Margate and Broadstairs are must calls, they’re the Thanet Towns I grouped together with Ramsgate.

Rainham could be missed for sure, but Sittingborne can’t be missed as you say

 

[CarrotPie]

Oh absolutely Margate and Broadstairs are must calls, they’re the Thanet Towns I grouped together with Ramsgate.

Rainham could be missed for sure, but Sittingborne can’t be missed as you say

An argument could be made for skipping Strood and Gravesend too, with those calls made up by, say, a Rochester terminator (perhaps Saturdays only).

 

[Jimini]

I'm no expert (far from it!!) -- maybe they skip Stratford and Ebbsfleet so the driver can do route retention bits and bobs as the non-stop services use lines that stopping services don't, particularly at Ebbsfleet? Just a loose theory

 

[CarrotPie]

I'm no expert (far from it!!) -- maybe they skip Stratford and Ebbsfleet so the driver can do route retention bits and bobs as the non-stop services use lines that stopping services don't, particularly at Ebbsfleet? Just a loose theory

It's almost certainly solely for peak purposes - there are umpteen ECS movements weekly that run fast through the stations which would enable route retention. TVM also aids route knowledge with the way it works.

 

[NorthKent1989]

An argument could be made for skipping Strood and Gravesend too, with those calls made up by, say, a Rochester terminator (perhaps Saturdays only).

Strood would be a hard on to skip unless they made the Maidstone service an all day service.

Gravesend might be hard to skip as well even with the additional Maidstone service, not least because Gravesend provides a useful connection from South East London to the Thanet Towns

 

[CarrotPie]

Strood would be a hard on to skip unless they made the Maidstone service an all day service.

Gravesend might be hard to skip as well even with the additional Maidstone service, not least because Gravesend provides a useful connection from South East London to the Thanet Towns

Hence an additional Rochester service!

• St Pancras-Stratford-Ebbsfleet-Gravesend(-Higham?)-Strood-Rochester (1tph)
• St Pancras-Stratford-Ebbsfleet-Gravesend-Strood-Rochester-Chatham-Gillingham-Rainham-Sittingbourne-Faversham-Whitstable-Herne Bay-Westgate-on-Sea-Birchington-on-Sea-Margate-Broadstairs-Ramsgate (1tph)
• St Pancras-Stratford-Ebbsfleet-Rochester-Chatham-Gillingham-Sittingbourne-Faversham-Whitstable-Herne Bay-Westgate-on-Sea-Margate-Broadstairs-Ramsgate-Thanet Parkway-Canterbury West-Ashford-Ebbsfleet-Stratford-St Pancras (1tph)