HS2 construction updates

[swt_passenger]

I don't remember such detail on the HS2 website, but there were more detailed maps on the government website which included the full track layout.

The very detailed OS linear route maps on the DfT site are not that easy to navigate to, but Google usually finds them still. I agree the layout has always been as described.

This link shows the 2012 situation for what was then known as the Leeds Spur:

HS2 plan and profile maps: North chord and Leeds spur

These are the plan and profile maps for Phase One of HS2 between London and the West Midlands.

www.gov.uk

 

[Nottingham59]

I agree the layout has always been as described.

Back in November 2009 (at the HS2 Feasibiity Study stage) the indicative track layout had a short stretch of only four tracks that did not allow Birmingham-Manchester and London-Leeds trains to run in parallel.


Taken from:

https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ukgwa/20100513093511mp_/http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/pi/highspeedrail/hs2ltd/route/westmidmap03.pdf

That was corrected by 2013, by having six tracks over that short section between junctions off to Leeds and to Birmingham.

 

[swt_passenger]

Back in November 2009 (at the HS2 Feasibiity Study stage) the indicative track layout had a short stretch of only four tracks that did not allow Birmingham-Manchester and London-Leeds trains to run in parallel.
View attachment 115842

Taken from:

https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ukgwa/20100513093511mp_/http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/pi/highspeedrail/hs2ltd/route/westmidmap03.pdf

That was corrected by 2013, by having six tracks over that short section between junctions off to Leeds and to Birmingham.

I must have meant “always” as ever since I first checked…

 

[Nottingham59]

I must have meant “always” as ever since I first checked…

2009 was a long time ago! So long ago, in fact, that almost any other country would have built it by now. Such is the insane planning regime we have in the UK.

What does intrigue me about the latest track layouts, is that there is no provision for simultaneous moves at the platforms at Birmingham Interchange. Trains which need to call there must all share one track north of the station. There are missing crossovers from the fast lines to the "stopping" lines.

Northbound, it doesn't matter, because trains will only ever arrive one at a time.

But southbound, trains from Birmingham, Nottingham and Manchester/Glasgow are all funnelling into one track south of Interchange. If two of these trains are are calling at Interchange, one of them will have to wait for the other. This strikes me as an unnecessary loss of flexibility at times of disruption or late running.

Maybe they've modelled it, and using the through lines to decelerate a second stopping train would use up too much capacity and they wouldn't ever want to do that?

 

[BRX]

Does anyone know when work on the north London tunnels is supposed to start - and when they'll start delivering the tunnel segments that i believe are being fabricated at Grain?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Does anyone know when work on the north London tunnels is supposed to start - and when they'll start delivering the tunnel segments that i believe are being fabricated at Grain?

For the Euston tunnel they have to finish the access shaft at OOC first, and I think they start boring around April next year, towards both Northolt and Euston.
The next tunnel to start is from the western end of the Northolt tunnel at West Ruislip towards OOC.
The TBMs are being assembled at West Ruislip now, and boring starts soon.
Segments for all these tunnels will be supplied by rail from Grain and Hartlepool, I'm not entirely clear who supplies which TBM site.

 

[Geogregor]

For the Euston tunnel they have to finish the access shaft at OOC first, and I think they start boring around April next year, towards both Northolt and Euston.
The next tunnel to start is from the western end of the Northolt tunnel at West Ruislip towards OOC.
The TBMs are being assembled at West Ruislip now, and boring starts soon.
Segments for all these tunnels will be supplied by rail from Grain and Hartlepool, I'm not entirely clear who supplies which TBM site.

Isle of Grain will be supplying rings to the TBMs starting at West Ruislip:

https://tunnellingjournal.com/first-segment-contract-hs2s-london-tunnels-awarded/

HS2’s contractor delivering the London tunnels, Skanska-Costain-STRABAG Joint Venture (SCS JV), has signed the first of two contracts for the production of concrete precast tunnel segments that will be used to construct HS2’s London tunnels. Pacadar UK will be manufacturing the tunnel lining at their factory in the Isle of Grain, Kent. It will be the largest contract the company has ever delivered in the UK.

The segments will be used in the first TBM drives in London, when two machines will be launched in early 2022. The production will begin in January next year at the factory and the materials will then be delivered to HS2’s TBM launch site in West Ruislip by rail, reducing HGV movements on the road, where the construction of the twin bored, 8km long, Northolt Tunnel West will begin...

 

[BRX]

Yes, there are already paths in the system for trains from grain to ruislip ... Not used yet but it sounds like they might start quite soon.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Isle of Grain will be supplying rings to the TBMs starting at West Ruislip:
https://tunnellingjournal.com/first-segment-contract-hs2s-london-tunnels-awarded/

So Hartlepool will supply the TBMs starting on the Northolt tunnels from Old Oak.
I'm not sure if the supply for the Euston tunnels has been contracted yet, but you'd think Hartlepool would be in pole position.

 

[Dave_Cardboard]

Apologies if this is inappropriate for this thread, but the Phase2B (Crewe to Manchester) Bill sailed through 2nd Reading in the House of Commons on 20th June 2022 with a vote of [Correction] 205 MP's For and only 6 Against.

 

[snowball]

Apologies if this is inappropriate for this thread, but the Phase2B (Crewe to Manchester) Bill sailed through 2nd Reading in the House of Commons on 20th June 2022 with a vote of 200 MP's For and only 6 Against.

As there are 650 MPs, that sounds like a mass abstention.

Meanwhile, both Rail and Modern Railways have carried pictures of the immense launching girder that will be used to build the Colne Valley viaduct.

 

[Dave_Cardboard]

I'd say not really - for a vote that the opposition supports and the Govt. will easily win with it's own majority, there's just no need for the opposition to turn up and vote with the Govt. Especially if they've "done a deal" in advance.

HS2's opponents may try and spin it a such I suppose.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Apologies if this is inappropriate for this thread, but the Phase2B (Crewe to Manchester) Bill sailed through 2nd Reading in the House of Commons on 20th June 2022 with a vote of [Correction] 205 MP's For and only 6 Against.

Presumably with the Golborne section removed?
It's Committee stage and 3rd reading that are important.
That will bring the Nimbys out for their final battle.

Was in Italy last week and noticed a big sign on a mountain slope near Susa, west of Turin, reading "NO TAV".
Meaning "No Treno Alta Velocita" - high speed train, on the Lyon-Turin route.
While contracts have been let for the central 57km Mont d'Ambin tunnel (St Jean du Maurienne-Susa), and plans are well advanced in France for the connecting lines, the residents of the Susa valley are putting up a big fight to keep the new line out.
It looks like nearly all of the route to Turin will be in tunnel as a result (if the government can afford it).

Meanwhile they allowed the existing motorway route to despoil the landscape with massive piers in the Susa gorge.

 

[Bald Rick]

Was in Italy last week and noticed a big sign on a mountain slope near Susa, west of Turin, reading "NO TAV".
Meaning "No Treno Alta Velocita" - high speed train, on the Lyon-Turin route.

Similar signs along the A62 SE of Bordeaux “LGV NON!”. Albeit that was 12 years ago, a few years after the Public Inquiry (roughly the equivalent process of the Parliamentary committee stage).

And people say it take us along time to deliver projects…

 

[snowball]

If I've counted correctly, 146 Tories didn't vote. Was it unwhipped?

https://votes.parliament.uk/Votes/Commons/Division/1322

 

[Mikey C]

If I've counted correctly, 146 Tories didn't vote. Was it unwhipped?

https://votes.parliament.uk/Votes/Commons/Division/1322

They probably paired off with opposition MPs, agreeing that neither would vote

 

[snowball]

I thought pairing was only used for small numbers of MPs who can't attend an important vote, and to pair someone who would who would have voted one way with someone who would have voted the other way.

 

[vic-rijrode]

Who were the 6 MPs that voted against? Surely HS2 phase 2B passes through more than 6 constituencies.

 

[SynthD]

It may do, but it’s not worth fighting any more.

Seeing the names below, I think they’re anti government spending votes.

 

[Winthorpe]

Who were the 6 MPs that voted against? Surely HS2 phase 2B passes through more than 6 constituencies.

All of the details of the vote can be seen via the link posted above. The five noes (plus two tellers) are:

Tellers
==========
Noes: Philip Davies (Conservative - Shipley) and Peter Bone (Conservative - Wellingborough)

Noes
==========
William Cash (Conservative - Stone)
Philip Hollobone (Conservative - Kettering)
Esther McVey (Conservative - Tatton)
Greg Smith (Conservative - Buckingham)
Desmond Swayne (Conservative - New Forest West)

 

[59CosG95]

All of the details of the vote can be seen via the link posted above. The five noes (plus two tellers) are:

Tellers
==========
Noes: Philip Davies (Conservative - Shipley) and Peter Bone (Conservative - Wellingborough)

Noes
==========
William Cash (Conservative - Stone)
Philip Hollobone (Conservative - Kettering)
Esther McVey (Conservative - Tatton)
Greg Smith (Conservative - Buckingham)
Desmond Swayne (Conservative - New Forest West)

It looks as if Esther McVey might be the only one whose constituency is actually affected, or close to being affected, by HS2. What the other MPs might want to gain from the vote, I honestly don't know

 

[snowball]

It looks as if Esther McVey might be the only one whose constituency is actually affected, or close to being affected, by HS2. What the other MPs might want to gain from the vote, I honestly don't know

Most, probably all of them are notorious right-wingers. Probably believe planning and building railways should be left to the private sector.

 

[vic-rijrode]

It looks as if Esther McVey might be the only one whose constituency is actually affected, or close to being affected, by HS2. What the other MPs might want to gain from the vote, I honestly don't know

Probably professional naysayers or members of the "Bring Back Stagecoaches" Society - Bone and Cash's political leanings are just to the right of Attila the Hun (who maybe would have supported HS2 - to get his hordes more quickly to rape and pillage?).

 

[Bald Rick]

Bill Cash and Greg Smith are vehement anti HS2ers, as it runs through their constituency and they had lots of local representation, particularly Smith.

 

[Winthorpe]

It looks as if Esther McVey might be the only one whose constituency is actually affected, or close to being affected, by HS2. What the other MPs might want to gain from the vote, I honestly don't know

They are the low tax, low spend group of MPs. They would vote against a high cost project like HS2 in pretty much any set of circumstances.

 

[swt_passenger]

Bill Cash and Greg Smith are vehement anti HS2ers, as it runs through their constituency and they had lots of local representation, particularly Smith.

Smith‘s obviously been highly successful in preventing Phase 1 going anywhere near Buckinghamshire.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Esther McVey took over from George Osborne at Tatton, who more than anyone turned HS2 into reality.
Bill Cash treats HS2 as another Brexit battle he will eventually win.

 

[camflyer]

I thought pairing was only used for small numbers of MPs who can't attend an important vote, and to pair someone who would who would have voted one way with someone who would have voted the other way.

Presumably a lot of MPs not in London now because of the rail strikes.

 

[Jozhua]

Most, probably all of them are notorious right-wingers. Probably believe planning and building railways should be left to the private sector.

Ah yes! With how bad UK planning laws are, not surprised the private sector avoids building infrastructure here with a bargepole...

Plus, pretty much no contemporary country sees fully private railway construction anymore.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Plus, pretty much no contemporary country sees fully private railway construction anymore.

How about these?

Railways in the Pilbara - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I think you could reasonably argue that the Eurotunnel system and the Heathrow Express branch are "fully private construction".
They were not funded by public money, although they do rely on some public funds for their operation (the government bought or guaranteed to use some of their capacity).