HS2 from Clapham Junction?

[DynamicSpirit]

The Government's announcement yesterday that the HS2 will review whether HS2 could start from Old Oak Common instead of Euston got me thinking. I think most of us here would accept that starting from OOC is an absurd non-starter because the transport links at OOC just wouldn't by themselves be able to handle the number of passengers that would be getting on/off HS2 trains.

But... how feasible would it be if HS2 called at OOC and then tunnelled through to terminate not at Euston, but at new underground platforms at Clapham Junction? Could that work?

The advantages I can see are:

• At a stroke gives direct HS2 connections to all of South and SouthWest London, Sussex, Hampshire and Dorset.
• (I assume) fewer competing underground structures then Euston has, perhaps making building the underground station easier than at Euston
• The option later on to extend HS2 in tunnels either to East Croydon (and then to Brighton) or to Bromley South (and on to Kent destinations), giving another step change in connectivity to millions of people - in contrast to Euston, where other underground structures mean that further HS2 extension to the East/South is essentially impossible.
• Keeps the same Crossrail2 connectivity that Euston would have, if/when CR2 gets built
• Avoids overloading Euston underground station - which is already pretty much at capacity. Of course Clapham Junction is also pretty much at capacity, but probably rather easier to improve than Euston would be.

Set against that is the much smaller disadvantage of losing connections to destinations in North London and places on the Northern/Victoria lines.

Thoughts? (And yes I do know this is purely speculative, and the likelihood of actually changing HS2's destination at this stage is virtually zero. I'm just curious about whether, in principle, it could have been a good idea).

 

[mmh]

But... how feasibly would it be if HS2 stopped at OOC and then tunnelled through to terminate not at Euston, but at Clapham Junction? Could that work?

Unlikely for many reasons, not least cost. If you're not going to tunnel to Euston because of the cost of it, why would you tunnel to Clapham instead?

Then there's where do the platforms go, the awful existing station with no excess capacity, poor road access, less convenient for Central London...

 

[Sad Sprinter]

I had a similar idea that you could revisit BR’s plan for a Victoria to Paddington Tunnel and connect Thames services with Southern, providing a connection with the South at OOC instead.

 

[6Gman]

When I go to London I quite like to end up in ... well, London!

Not Wormwood Scrubs and not Battersea.

 

[Metrailway]

As a stop gap measure, I think re-utilising Waterloo International may be a better option as it saves the cost of a new HS station and is in central London.

 

[edwin_m]

As a stop gap measure, I think re-utilising Waterloo International may be a better option as it saves the cost of a new HS station and is in central London.

Waterloo International is now in use as part of a badly-needed capacity increase on the South Western network.

 

[Metrailway]

Waterloo International is now in use as part of a badly-needed capacity increase on the South Western network.

If HS2 does get built, I'm assuming CR2 would also get built. CR2 would remove the need for the South Western lines to use the international platforms.

Of course, considering the general unpopularity of large amounts of infrastructure spending in the London area amongst the electorate outside London/SE, approval of CR2 is not a given.

 

[Ianno87]

If HS2 does get built, I'm assuming CR2 would also get built. CR2 would remove the need for the South Western lines to use the international platforms.

Of course, considering the general unpopularity of large amounts of infrastructure spending in the London area amongst the electorate outside London/SE, approval of CR2 is not a given.

CR2 I think enables extra trains overall, not simply displacing trains out of Waterloo.

Plus the old International station only has 5 platforms....which won't manage 18tph long distance very welll....and will need their 400m length reinstating, and thus the old low-capacity throat (for 4tph) put back.

 

[DerekC]

Divert Chiltern into Paddington and re-engineer HS2 to use Marylebone? Much more convenient for the West End, but not much good for onward connections, I guess. Of course if we had a proper transport strategy we wouldn't be trying to cobble something together out of bits that don't really fit!

 

[edwin_m]

Divert Chiltern into Paddington and re-engineer HS2 to use Marylebone? Much more convenient for the West End, but not much good for onward connections, I guess. Of course if we had a proper transport strategy we wouldn't be trying to cobble something together out of bits that don't really fit!

Marylebone is far too short to be a high speed terminus, and even if the shorter platforms are included it would have far too little capacity. Paddington also has no extra capacity despite Crossrail.

 

[Ianno87]

Divert Chiltern into Paddington and re-engineer HS2 to use Marylebone? Much more convenient for the West End, but not much good for onward connections, I guess. Of course if we had a proper transport strategy we wouldn't be trying to cobble something together out of bits that don't really fit!

We have a proper transport strategy. It's called 'just build HS2 without resorting to short term compromises that hinder its ability to deliver long term'

 

[swt_passenger]

If HS2 does get built, I'm assuming CR2 would also get built. CR2 would remove the need for the South Western lines to use the international platforms...

No, it really wouldn’t. The Southwestern route study explains in some detail how they already have future plans to use the paths released by Crossrail 2 for extra main line services. They list seven or eight current services that run on the fast lines from Surbiton to Waterloo that will be moved to the slow lines.

 

[DerekC]

We have a proper transport strategy. It's called 'just build HS2 without resorting to short term compromises that hinder its ability to deliver long term'

HS2 isn't a strategy - it's a project that already has unsatisfactory compromises all round it because our government has never committed to any long term thinking about the shape of the network and how it fits into a national transport strategy.

 

[Ianno87]

HS2 isn't a strategy - it's a project that already has unsatisfactory compromises all round it because our government has never committed to any long term thinking about the shape of the network and how it fits into a national transport strategy.

....unsatisfactory compromises such as....?

 

[tasky]

Where do the passengers go? Clapham Junction isn't even on the tube. The only central London locations it has direct services to are Waterloo and Victoria, and those services are notoriously overcrowded