Hucknall (Nottm) to West Jesmond (Newcastle)

[ashworth]

In two weeks time I'm travelling up to Newcastle and back from Hucknall (Robin Hood Line) in Nottinghamshire. I'm actually going to West Jesmond on the Tyne and Wear Metro. My original plan was to travel up on Monday morning and return on Saturday morning. I'm using a Senior Railcard.
My original plan was as follows:

Hucknall to Sheffield (Via Worksop) Off Peak Return (SVR) @ £10.30
Sheffield to York (Anytime Short Distance Return @ £16.45
York to Newcastle SVR (TPE only) @ 11.80
A total of £38.55.
Quite a good saving by splitting when the SVR from Hucknall to Newcastle would have been £59.75.

There's now been a change of plan and I now intend to travel up the day before on Sunday afternoon. Immediately that puts the price up by approx. £4 because there are no trains from Hucknall to Worksop on a Sunday and I will have to travel via Nottingham.

However, I'm not desperate to save money and the SVR from Hucknall to Newcastle is looking more and more attractive because of it's flexibility of trains and routes that I could take. With that ticket I could still travel via Sheffield but it would also allow me to travel via Grantham if I wanted to. On the return journey I could also travel via Retford/Worksop. I hate using XC Voyagers when I have luggage especially if the train from Chesterfield to York is crowded on a Sunday afternoon and the SVR will allow me to avoid that. I once had to do a 3 hour journey on XC squashed in an uncomfortable seat with a heavy case on my knee!

As connections are not good via Grantham on a Sunday afternoon I had thought about changing at Nottingham and Leeds. That would be an EMT 156 from Hucknall to Nottingham, Northern 158 from Nottingham to Leeds and TPE 185 from Leeds to Newcastle. My relatively small case fits on the overhead luggage rack on all those types of train! Would I find the TPE train from Leeds to Newcastle really busy on a Sunday afternoon. I notice that there are 2 departures at 1744 and 1748. Which, if any, would be the quietest?

Sorry I've gone on so much!
I notice that on the East Coast Website there is a through Off Peak Return Available from Hucknall to West Jesmond on the Tyne and Wear Metro which is priced at £61.20. This ticket doesn't seem to be available on the EMT website. Would I be able to buy this ticket from the EMT machine on Hucknall Station or if not from the EMT conductor on the train. The other alternative would be to buy it online the night before and collect it from the machine at Hucknall before travelling.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Howabout Nottingham-Newark Castle, walk to Newark Northgate and then Northgate-Newcastle?

 

[ashworth]

Howabout Nottingham-Newark Castle, walk to Newark Northgate and then Northgate-Newcastle?

I could do that or even easier via Grantham if I got the tram into Nottingham from Hucknall. It's the connections via both Grantham or Newark that are dreadful off the 1433 from Hucknall. Grantham leaves me with an hour to wait in Nottingham and Newark an unbelievable almost 2 hours in Newark. I wouldn't be departing from Newark Northgate until 3 hrs and 10 minutes after leaving Hucknall.

Changing at Nottingham and Leeds seems quite good for connections with 20 minutes to wait in Nottingham and approx 30 minutes in Leeds. If the Leeds To Newcastle trains aren't too busy that may be the best route for comfort and avoidance of crowded voyagers on a Sunday afternoon. If I'm going to pay the higher price for flexibility by not splitting at Sheffield and York, I'd rather get a through ticket from Hucknall than from Nottingham to allow me to travel back via Worksop if I want to.

 

[Iggy12a]

Would I be able to buy this ticket from the EMT machine on Hucknall Station or if not from the EMT conductor on the train. The other alternative would be to buy it online the night before and collect it from the machine at Hucknall before travelling.

I don't think there is ticket machine at Hucknall.

 

[ashworth]

I don't think there is ticket machine at Hucknall.

There is. It's been there for a few months now. I first noticed it way back in February and have used it quite regularly since then to buy tickets before travelling from Hucknall and also to collect tickets purchased online. In fact I am sure that officially a penalty fares system now operates on the Robin Hood Line and you are supposed to buy your ticket from the machine before boarding the train. However, I have noticed that many EMT staff are still selling tickets on the train with no problems. Incidentally, on a number of occasions I have found the machine out of order. It wasn't working yesterday when I called in to check whether I could buy an SVR from Hucknall to West Jesmond.

 

[robbeech]

There is. It's been there for a few months now. I first noticed it way back in February and have used it quite regularly since then to buy tickets before travelling from Hucknall and also to collect tickets purchased online. In fact I am sure that officially a penalty fares system now operates on the Robin Hood Line and you are supposed to buy your ticket from the machine before boarding the train. However, I have noticed that many EMT staff are still selling tickets on the train with no problems. Incidentally, on a number of occasions I have found the machine out of order. It wasn't working yesterday when I called in to check whether I could buy an SVR from Hucknall to West Jesmond.

There are machines at all stations on the line now and it is indeed a penalty fare area with regular checks and rpis boarding the train during the journey. However you are also right in saying they break a lot. These machines are overwhelmingly unreliable at the moment. Either out of service, the card part not working, or a network connection not working so I cannot purchase tickets with a different origin (this is pretty much permenant).

 

[Romilly]

Two extra things:

(1) Not all journey planners offer tickets to destinations on the Tyne & Wear Metro - Virgin Trains East Coast is something of an exception in that regard (although I haven't checked other journey planners recently)

(2) If you want to use the Hucknall-Newcastle (or Hucknall-West Jesmond) SVR to return via Worksop, the only permitted route for that ticket which passes through Worksop is: Newcastle (via Durham or Hartlepool) - York - Doncaster (or Leeds - Doncaster) - Retford - Worksop. In particular, the ticket is not valid for Newcastle-Doncaster-Sheffield-Worksop. See Routeing Guide Map NS. The map combinations DG+NS, DL+GS and DY+YA are good for Hucknall-Nottingham-Newcastle but do not cover Hucknall-Worksop-Newcastle.

 

[Tetchytyke]

It wasn't working yesterday when I called in to check whether I could buy an SVR from Hucknall to West Jesmond.

I would be very surprised if you're able to buy a ticket to "Metro Tyne and Wear Zone A" from an EMT TVM.

If you want the Metro add-on fare, you're best off buying it in advance and collecting it. And, as Romilly says, not all journey planners offer it.

 

[robbeech]

I'd be very surprised if you ran into any trouble going via Sheffield though despite the maps saying it isn't valid. With services from Retford only 1 per lunar month especially.

Edit for clarity : by via Sheffield I mean via Sheffield and Worksop, via Sheffield and Nottingham is valid anyway.

 

[cuccir]

I notice that on the East Coast Website there is a through Off Peak Return Available from Hucknall to West Jesmond on the Tyne and Wear Metro which is priced at £61.20. This ticket doesn't seem to be available on the EMT website. Would I be able to buy this ticket from the EMT machine on Hucknall Station or if not from the EMT conductor on the train. The other alternative would be to buy it online the night before and collect it from the machine at Hucknall before travelling.

These tickets are also not often on TVMs. I'd suggest buying online and then collecting it.

Would I find the TPE train from Leeds to Newcastle really busy on a Sunday afternoon. I notice that there are 2 departures at 1744 and 1748. Which, if any, would be the quietest?

TPE trains can be a little busy on that route, though there is plenty of 'churn' so you'd usually expect to be able to get a seat at York if you can't at Leeds. Logic would state that the 17:48 is quieter - many people are doing short journeys on these services, so they're less likely to wait for 5 minutes for the quieter train.

Is this on Sunday 2nd July? If so, this train is booked in as an HST from Cross Country. Leaves Leeds at 18:08 and likely to be much quieter than the TPE trains that you mention, and you could also pick it up at Chesterfield, Sheffield etc. You could also go for a £15 first class upgrade on this service which is a bit pricey if boarding at Leeds but a decent-ish deal from Chesterfield, for example

 

[ashworth]

Is this on Sunday 2nd July? If so, this train is booked in as an HST from Cross Country. Leaves Leeds at 18:08 and likely to be much quieter than the TPE trains that you mention, and you could also pick it up at Chesterfield, Sheffield etc. You could also go for a £15 first class upgrade on this service which is a bit pricey if boarding at Leeds but a decent-ish deal from Chesterfield, for example

Thanks for that it is Sunday 2 no July. I like the idea of the Cross Country HST which I could actually pick up all the way from Derby. Like travelling via Grantham or Newark it would be more convenient for connections to travel into Nottingham by tram.

Thanks everyone for all the advice and suggestions. I was quite surprised that Hucknall to Newcastle SVR isn't valid via Worksop and Sheffield. I also can't really see any problems if I did decide to return by that route rather than the longer and from some destinations more expensive route via Nottingham. Although is doesn't seem to make sense from Hucknall when you can travel via Nottingham and Sheffield, I do understand why as Worksop to Newcastle is not valid via Sheffield. Interestingly the journey planners come up with changing at Doncaster, Gainsborough Lea Road and Worksop!

 

[robbeech]

Changing at Lea Road is done as the connections are better in between the 2 hourly Retford service, it takes longer but it is quicker than waiting. It won't appear on journeys to or from Doncaster unless you force it but when a connection is made there from up north it sometimes gives you that.

Also, as you are likely aware Hucknall to Newcastle is valid via Derby. There is a price difference between starting at Hucknall and starting at Nottingham so you'd have to make a decision on whether you got the tram before you bought the train ticket I guess. You could of course buy the Hucknall ticket anyway and start short at Nottingham on the outward leg and keep your flexibility to come back via Retford on the return. (Though I believe NCL to NOT is still valid via Retford anyway)

 

[yorkie]

Please note that we do allow the 3-letter codes for both stations and ticket types to be used but only if they are correctly defined the first time they are used. The codes are used by ticket booking sites and can be found on brfares.com.

Note that 'SVR' is the code for an Off Peak Return (formerly Saver Return) and the code 'OPR' is used for some Super Off Peak Returns (that were not formerly SuperSaver Returns; those ones have the code SSR instead)

I have made amendments so the correct codes are used.

There is a "via Sheffield" SVR fare that permits travel via Workshop & Sheffield, as this is valid via all permitted routes from Hucknall to Sheffield plus all permitted routes from Sheffield to Newcastle, in addition to the permitted routes from Hucknall to Newcastle that pass through Sheffield.

The shortest route from Hucknall to Sheffield is via Worksop so this is clearly permitted.

In theory, if you used the "Any Permitted" SVR, it is possible that a Guard of a train between Worksop & Sheffield may charge you an excess fare of half the difference between the fare paid and the more expensive "via Sheffield" fare, as they may be aware that the "Any Permitted" SVR fare is valid via Worksop or via Retford but not between Worksop & Retford.

That said, an "Any Permitted" fare would be valid via Worksop & Sheffield if it was an Anytime Single fare, because - unlike the case with the Off Peak Return fares - the Anytime Single fare routed via Sheffield is cheaper than the Anytime Single fare routed "Any Permitted".

Of course, as is typical for a journey priced by CrossCountry, it is significantly cheaper to use a combination of shorter distance fares (also known as "split ticketing" or simply "splitting"), so this is largely academic.

This is so incredibly complex, I doubt many (if any) Guards who work between Worksop and Sheffield are aware of any of these issues, let alone understand it. If they attempted to look it up, it could take the whole journey from Worksop to Sheffield to figure out of the ticket held was valid or not! In fact, I suspect some pricing managers may struggle with this one, such is the complexity.

I don't think the rule stating that tickets are valid by all permitted routes from origin to the specified via point, plus all permitted routes from specified via point to destination, is actually documented anywhere in the public domain, but that is the validity, and this is applied by booking engines (see also: London Euston to Edale).