Hull Trains

[Fred26]

How come Hull Trains don't stop at Peterborough or Newark North Gate? Surely with such a move they'd inrease patronage and thus revenue. Did other TOCs block them?

 

[mallard]

Did other TOCs block them?

Yes they did.

 

[Fred26]

Any chance of that changing?

 

[Failed Unit]

View as extractive, they would stop at peterbourgh if the could. Why the can't stop to set down is a mystery. At least then the cover the hull - peterborough Market and gain no revenue out of the London - peterbourgh pot.

 

[Fred26]

View as extractive, they would stop at peterbourgh if the could. Why the can't stop to set down is a mystery. At least then the cover the hull - peterborough Market and gain no revenue out of the London - peterbourgh pot.

They'd still be taking money for Grantham, Retford and Doncaster though going the other way.

 

[Failed Unit]

They'd still be taking money for Grantham, Retford and Doncaster though going the other way.

True but the pot isn't as big, the fill big gaps in they timetable at Retford.

When you think about it the open access operators could be very useful at plugging gaps. You can't have everything but if Grand Central stopped at Grantham and Stevenage that would give both of those stations hourly to York with a good connection to Edinburgh. GC had poor paths in the draft timetable so that would be win-win. Unfortunately open access can't be considered for the greater good of a clockface timetable!

 

[swt_passenger]

...Unfortunately open access can't be considered for the greater good of a clockface timetable!

It seems to be a proposal in the NR ECML 2016 capacity review. They don't say it explicitly, but reading the whole thing it definitely makes more sense. They appear to be considering putting all the OA operators in a standard 7th path, and using that service to pick up 'minor' stops from the longer distance franchised services. This would allow the franchised operator to speed up the more valuable long distance routes such as Leeds, Newcastle, Edinburgh, while maintianing those station's links with Kings Cross.

They refer to it as timetabling 'holistically', which in context appears to be saying 'let's use the OA paths as part of the overall calling pattern'.

 

[Failed Unit]

That would not be a bad idea. Look at we may have in Eureka.

London - York stopping (extend to Sunderland give path to GC)
London - hull.
Standard stops Stevenage, Grantham, retford, Doncaster.

Some hours onwards to Hull and others give to GC for Bradford.

That said I don't know if GC passengers would want the extra stops and slower journey time. I am sure the management would not mind the ORCATs!

 

[Fred26]

That said I don't know if GC passengers would want the extra stops and slower journey time. I am sure the management would not mind the ORCATs!

That would come down to how busy the services are between Sunderland and York and between Bradford Interchange and Doncaster. If most of GCs passengers are picked up on the mainline I'd suggest the extra stops wouldn't make much difference (to the majority of passengers) as they've always got the East Coast services.

If Grand Central and Hull all ran; Kings Cross, Stevenage, Peterborough, Grantham, Newark North Gate, Retford, Doncaster...

then either stops to Hull, stops to Sunderland, or stops to Bradford, that'd fill holes for the stations served. The 180s would be busy probably all the time, too. They certainly aren't at the moment.

 

[Aictos]

That would come down to how busy the services are between Sunderland and York and between Bradford Interchange and Doncaster. If most of GCs passengers are picked up on the mainline I'd suggest the extra stops wouldn't make much difference (to the majority of passengers) as they've always got the East Coast services.

If Grand Central and Hull all ran; Kings Cross, Stevenage, Peterborough, Grantham, Newark North Gate, Retford, Doncaster...

then either stops to Hull, stops to Sunderland, or stops to Bradford, that'd fill holes for the stations served. The 180s would be busy probably all the time, too. They certainly aren't at the moment.

If Grand Central and Hull Trains were to do that then I for one will be using them quite a lot and I can see the patronage on these services increasing a lot,

 

[MCR247]

What I don't understand is why HT and GC don't work together and share paths? I mean, if they wanted they could timetable a GC from Bradford to arrive in Doncaster and join to a 180 from Hull. They can then go onto London together, and the same the other way around. If EC didn't want GC to call at Grantham etc then only open the doors on the HT.

 

[Failed Unit]

What I don't understand is why HT and GC don't work together and share paths? I mean, if they wanted they could timetable a GC from Bradford to arrive in Doncaster and join to a 180 from Hull. They can then go onto London together, and the same the other way around. If EC didn't want GC to call at Grantham etc then only open the doors on the HT.

I can see why HT and GC wouldn't work in delay situations. What would happen if the cables get nicked at Hartlepool? Would the HT portion wait or not?

However GC could portion work and even stop a other stations. I know you hear the myth about blocking platforms at Doncaster and the ECML would collapse if portion working took place, but surely this is better than 2x 5 car trains on the congested section. Hull trains could also portion work to Harrogate.

 

[philjo]

It could work if they split/divided at Retford, as these platforms are in a loop so not blocking other trains as much than would be the case at Doncaster & HT call there anyway.

 

[Max]

There are quite a lot of technical issues which mean that some 180s don't join to others - apparently there are two different types? These issues would have to be dealt with before this could even be considered.

 

[Failed Unit]

There are quite a lot of technical issues which mean that some 180s don't join to others - apparently there are two different types? These issues would have to be dealt with before this could even be considered.

True, but hopefully not insurmountable. That is the other point if you tried a GC / HT combo. You get all the bun fights if couplers get damaged etc.

 

[Oliver]

How come Hull Trains don't stop at Peterborough or Newark North Gate? Surely with such a move they'd inrease patronage and thus revenue. Did other TOCs block them?

I'm kindof glad they run non-stop to Grantham on weekdays. The start-stop times of 61 minutes for 105 miles are the fastest exits from London AFAIK.