BusesOfTheNW
Member
It is, but the DCC will hopefully put them out to tender at some point considering they subsidised Hulleys in the evenings
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Hulley's of Baslow
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Indeed - give them chance! School routes the priority to cover and that's now been largely done. Other trips to follow the tendering process if there is still (a) demand for journeys at that time and (b) budget to pay for them
Baxenden Bank
Established Member
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- 23 Oct 2013
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If the assets were transferred at a realistic value, and the money actually changed hands then the administrator / receiver / liquidator is in no different a position whether they have the buses or the cash. They have either buses worth £1m or they have cash in the bank of £1m. Having the cash would save them the effort of having to find buyers for the buses, looking after them in the meantime etc. But if the money failed to materialise because the bank refused to transfer it then they have neither the buses nor the cash.
The behaviour of directors in the period leading up to the demise of the company (prior two years?) will be closely looked at. Their behaviour / co-operation immediately prior to and during administration etc will also be considered. The directors have to prepare a statement of the company affairs to give to the administrator. That will appear on Companies House in due course, along with the administrators report into the state of the company (assets, debts etc).
Quite what the 'lorry drivers' or the company that employs / instructed them think they will achieve I have no idea. They will have to make a claim as creditor along with anybody / everybody else who thinks they are owed money. You cannot randomly seize items and set them off against money you think you are owed. That is theft (or whatever the specific legal term would be).
Perhaps the administrator could use their buses to counter-block the lorries into the yard! Removing items from the locked premises without permission of the receivers, even if you think you have rights to them or ownership of them is a serious matter. That is why, if you lease equipment, you have a plaque, very well fixed to your asset, stating 'this item is leased from Baxenden Bank Bus Hire Ltd'. The English Electric Class 50 had such when British Rail initially leased them. Very recently, in Newcastle-under-Lyme at Walleys Landfill, leased equipment could be seen being removed behind the camera - Clee Hill Plant I think it was - on the day the site closed down. They probably knew what was coming, had contigencies in place and removed their assets (presumably with permission) pronto.
Any wages / redundancy owed to Hulley's staff is covered by law, the staff will need to make a claim and it comes from public funds if necessary.
The behaviour of directors in the period leading up to the demise of the company (prior two years?) will be closely looked at. Their behaviour / co-operation immediately prior to and during administration etc will also be considered. The directors have to prepare a statement of the company affairs to give to the administrator. That will appear on Companies House in due course, along with the administrators report into the state of the company (assets, debts etc).
Quite what the 'lorry drivers' or the company that employs / instructed them think they will achieve I have no idea. They will have to make a claim as creditor along with anybody / everybody else who thinks they are owed money. You cannot randomly seize items and set them off against money you think you are owed. That is theft (or whatever the specific legal term would be).
Perhaps the administrator could use their buses to counter-block the lorries into the yard! Removing items from the locked premises without permission of the receivers, even if you think you have rights to them or ownership of them is a serious matter. That is why, if you lease equipment, you have a plaque, very well fixed to your asset, stating 'this item is leased from Baxenden Bank Bus Hire Ltd'. The English Electric Class 50 had such when British Rail initially leased them. Very recently, in Newcastle-under-Lyme at Walleys Landfill, leased equipment could be seen being removed behind the camera - Clee Hill Plant I think it was - on the day the site closed down. They probably knew what was coming, had contigencies in place and removed their assets (presumably with permission) pronto.
Any wages / redundancy owed to Hulley's staff is covered by law, the staff will need to make a claim and it comes from public funds if necessary.
I rode the 111 on Saturday and it would have been snug in a Sprinter. However, it only picked up at Ashbourne, Carsington Water and Wirksworth.
IMO there is a strong argument for running a combined 110/111 to serve the villages, and a 'main roads' service covering the bigger towns and tourist hotspots.
But if they were "sold" for a price well below their true market value then the Receivers have neither the assets or the money...
Don't hold your breath for that statement to be massively informative. We came, we tried, external factors, bad luck, we failed is the usual extent of them.
Indeed. It's a bizarre move that was doomed to be fruitless from the start.
Leonard Curtis are the Receivers. Anyone who believes they are owed money should contact them.
Hard to tell when there are buses that don't track, but it may have been the only LMS service heading towards Chesterfield. As it used to be common to have an E400 for this trip before it got split in two, I'm not that surprised it was full.
I can only imagine LMS has a very good reputation as there are a surprisingly high number of kids from near us travel there, and the local school here is quite well respected.
As an aside on the Stagecoach / High Peak saga, is there precedent for two routes operated by different operators and with very similar but not identical routes to have the same route number?
Closest I can think locally is the 120 in Sheffield, but that's more two routes with a common middle section.
Baxenden Bank
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Just noticed this in the Derbyshire Times live report (linked above).
"Police were called and witnesses reported that officers arrived at the scene of the incident shortly before 5 pm.
A spokesperson for Derbyshire police said: “We received a report at 1.50pm today that vehicles were blocking the entrance at Hulleys of Baslow, in Calver Road and that those driving them had refused to leave.”"
"Police were called and witnesses reported that officers arrived at the scene of the incident shortly before 5 pm.
A spokesperson for Derbyshire police said: “We received a report at 1.50pm today that vehicles were blocking the entrance at Hulleys of Baslow, in Calver Road and that those driving them had refused to leave.”"
Would think will be quite clear to Holymoorside residenst that schools apart they have to use the High Peak service and as such is less confusing than the cases of a single numbered service by one operator having differing routes - Connexions X70 between Harrogate and Wetherby for example.
mayneway
Member
F
Not sure what the current situation is there at Hulley’s yard. Police made it clear they were only there to prevent a breach of the peace.
From comments made online it would seem the recovery firm had been promised it would be paid in full before administrators were brought in, there were also several drivers present, one has commented tonight that they are there because they were promised outstanding pension contributions would be made and wages would be paid, they were then told this morning they would have to fill in forms and claim through administrators and it could take months to get any kind of payment.
Not sure what the current situation is there at Hulley’s yard. Police made it clear they were only there to prevent a breach of the peace.
Indeed. And supports views above that they have plugged what gaps they can with the resources they know they have. They may be able to plug other gaps but only once they are sure they have the resources to do so. A highly pragmatic and sensible approach.
M803UYA
Member
Stagecoach is a large, national bus operation and well able to rustle up spare vehicles within a number of days to assist for uplifts in service.
And drivers?
And ensure drivers are route trained?
And that drivers duties are drawn up and in line with legal requirements and Union agreements?
And you have sufficient O Discs to put extra vehicles on the road?
It's not just a case of finding a few extra buses!
Cesarcollie
Member
- Joined
- 5 Jun 2016
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- 665
You need sufficient O licences. There is however the ability to hire buses from another operator using their O licence discs, but only for a maximum period of (I recollect) 14 days.
pjnathanail
Member
An operator would not be able to operate a bus for hire and reward without a valid PSV O licence disc displayed. That requirement is absolute, and there are no exceptions permitted even in exceptional circumstances such as these.
Whether it would be permissible to operate a bus without a PSV O licence and not charge fares is debatable, but an argument could be made by the TC (assuming you weren't doing it purely out of the goodness of your heart), that your "reward" would come in the future when you obtained additional licences and started charging, so I think an operator would be unwise to do this. There are also insurance implications.
That being said, most bus operators have both (a) a disc for every bus, including spares, hence can meet short notice uplifts and (b) often more discs than buses, so again they can quickly bring extra buses in to the fleet.
Not all operators in this case, but many, especially the larger ones, are.
Sadly, operators closing with no, or minimal, notice is so common across the industry, pretty much every operator of every size / scale knows what to do in this sort of situation, and is practiced at mobilising new contracts at ultra short notice. There will I am sure be some roughness round the edges as new buses, drivers and duties bed in, but compared to the previous standards of service delivery on the routes in question, I suspect passengers will be appreciative of whatever can be operated.
According to Bus Lists on the Web, this is the fleet list as at November 2024, but it could be incomplete:
https://buslists.uk/operators/BGJi2b Three double deckers and several coaches
IamTrainsYT
Member
From tomorrow Andrews of Tideswell will operate:
172, 173, 178 and 257 on the existing hulleys timetables. Additionally the 6 school bus only.
They will be using hulleys machines so still tracking as hulleys and hulleys drivers they have taken on
They also have 16 of hulleys buses (including 3 as a spares donor for 19 and 22)
172, 173, 178 and 257 on the existing hulleys timetables. Additionally the 6 school bus only.
They will be using hulleys machines so still tracking as hulleys and hulleys drivers they have taken on
They also have 16 of hulleys buses (including 3 as a spares donor for 19 and 22)
mayneway
Member
Certainly sounds like this has been in the planning more than a few hours or even days and the fact they are taking on buses as spares donors suggests they are in it for the long run and not just temporarily.
IamTrainsYT
Member
They’re certainly a very dedicated team at andrews - several hulleys vehicles with long standing defects have had them rectified over the past 24 hours
Russel
Established Member
I may be overlooking something, but how have Andrews had chance to repair Hulleys buses before they actually finished operating?
Also, going by Bustimes, Hulleys had 18 buses, which 2 didn't Andrews take?
mk1979
Member
Operators were notified of tender awards with about 24-hours notice (it should have been 48-hours notice before yesterday afternoon’s events).
It’s not for me to explain the vehicle situation but having known what was intended to happen then it is an entirely logical outcome for Andrew’s to use a number of the former Hulleys vehicles.
YX73OUB
Member
This thread has been on fire over the last few days but I have to say from all of the posts that I've been reading with interest, this is the most professional and genuinely kindest statement that the MD could've made. Top work Stagecoach.
If you are including no 3 then they had 20, plus the three loan vehicles. Check 'recent changes' on bustimes - some have been taken off the list more due to the end date of operations than because they have left the fleet.
However, of those 20 an E400 was off for damage repairs, and an E200 is noted on bustimes as having bad corrosion.
I'd suggest there is limited demand for another E400, and the Evoras are likely too expensive for them to want to keep. The only service they have still they'd be any use in would be the 257, but they've got plenty more Euro 6 buses to cover that. I can well see them turning up at Go Coach.
So, my guess would be to take the existing list on bustimes, remove the loan vehicles and the Evoras and add back in 11 and 28.
Not sure how they plan to operate the 178 as it normally interworks with the 170, but during the day there will only be 5 or 6 out, so they have time to work through any backlog of repairs and assess what they want to keep longer term.
Having taken on quite a few more than they need I wonder if longer term there are plans to take on other work commercially? Based on the list given above they are also right at their limit of 40 vehicles.
tram21
Member
Something somewhat odd...
My friend has seen a Hulleys bus, an E200, in service, in Clay Cross.
The blind reads 'Happy Easter from Hulleys'
Given no-one, as far as we know, are operating the 55, what's going on here?
My friend has seen a Hulleys bus, an E200, in service, in Clay Cross.
The blind reads 'Happy Easter from Hulleys'
Given no-one, as far as we know, are operating the 55, what's going on here?
Well, that photo is New Beetwell Street in Chesterfield, and Andrews are operating the school run on the 6 which starts there. Was there also a sighting in Clay Cross?
Quite likely those blinds were already programmed so can't read too much in to that.
Considering what's happened recently and the fact that some of Hulleys fleet are now running out of Andrew's (Tideswell) yard shouldn't the former Hulleys fleet have "On Hire to Andrew's Tideswell") stickers on them.
Also when times permits obviously the Hulleys name will disappear of the vehicles and Andrew's transfers will be put on them.
Also when times permits obviously the Hulleys name will disappear of the vehicles and Andrew's transfers will be put on them.
Goldfish62
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- 14 Feb 2010
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- 11,661
Unsurprisingly, to some of us at least, Stagecoach are well versed in all this.
They'll have been planning for today's scenario for a long time.