Hulley's of Baslow

[py_megapixel]

Travel South Yorkshire now seems to be suggesting that First isn't filling in Hulleys' gaps on the 272: https://www.travelsouthyorkshire.com/en-gb/news/55f66bac-0e4f-4672-912f-16889c714999

272: First Bus will continue to run 272 journeys every two-hours Monday to Saturday and hourly on Sundays. Service 81 (First) provides alternative journeys between City Centre and Whirlow. Service 65 (Stagecoach) provides alternative journeys between City Centre and Fox House.

Not entirely surprising to be honest. Judging by some of Olive Grove's bus allocations at the moment - Wright Streetlites appearing often on some of the busiest routes in the city - they don't exactly seem to be awash with spare buses. They also haven't seemed particularly interested in any increase to their services lately (many would argue quite the opposite!)

The TSY information says every two hours, but there's actually a 3-hour gap in the middle of the day when Hulley's ran two consecutive departures for some reason, and the first departure of the day from Castleton is now almost 90 minutes later. It also leave a strange situation of an entire village being served by the 272 in one direction only for most of the day! (unless there is enough slack in the timetable for First to do the detour into Bradwell in both directions)

Of course, all of that only applies Mon-Sat. On Sundays, since First ran the whole service, the route pretty much retains an hourly clockface service, two-hourly to Bradwell in each direction.

 

[MotCO]

They were brought over in October last year and have only had chance to do a couple of events so far this year, although more are planned. You can follow the group behind them on Facebook “Riding with Rodoeste”.

There was also an article in Buses magazine about their 'repatriation' - I think it was the February edition

 

[mayneway]

Well to say they Officially went under today according to TC info, a new company has already been registered to start operating from tomorrow surprisingly:

Traffic Commissioners got a new application today

20 Vehicles

Trading Name: Baslow Motor Services

Trading Address:
Calver Rd, Baslow, Bakewell DE45 1RP

Operators Address:
Calver Rd, Baslow, Bakewell DE45 1RP

Transport Manager (s):
Alf Crofts

You couldn’t make it up.
I know it’s business but imagine being a driver or a company, like mount pleasant, that are owed money.
One company is wound up with monies owing everywhere then another company is immediately registered - I would be extremely annoyed!

 

[Hyebone]

One company is wound up with monies owing everywhere then another company is immediately registered - I would be extremely annoyed!

Is this not fraud of some description?

 

[Doctor Fegg]

They were brought over in October last year and have only had chance to do a couple of events so far this year, although more are planned. You can follow the group behind them on Facebook “Riding with Rodoeste”.

Oh, that's fantastic. Several years ago Junior (now 8) had christened the Rodoeste buses in Madeira "the hurty bus" on account of the rather devil-may-care driving style around the steep, twisty roads of Madeira. I shall have to take him on a re-enactment around the Peak District…

 

[JKP]

Would not surprise me .Popping up under a new name

The great question though is whether Alf is still of good repute and whether the TC will grant a new licence.

 

[mayneway]

The great question though is whether Alf is still of good repute and whether the TC will grant a new licence.

All depends if these suggestions about drivers and missing pension contributions are true.
Pretty sure one driver claimed he’d been deducted pension contributions and NI but nothing had been paid for the last 3 months.

If he is granted a licence he’s then got to finance vehicles, sort a recovery contract, fuel supplier and find staff to work for him. Derbyshire is a fickle place where people don’t forget!

 

[Discuss223]

Travel South Yorkshire now seems to be suggesting that First isn't filling in Hulleys' gaps on the 272: https://www.travelsouthyorkshire.com/en-gb/news/55f66bac-0e4f-4672-912f-16889c714999

It's not good enough.

Castleton, Hope, & Hathersage are sizeable villages.

There are also various tourist attractions on this route such as Parson's House, Surprise View, Hathersage Open Air Pool, Devil's Arse & Castleton Museum/Visitor's Centre.

It also serves Hope Valley College.

It also provides Bradwell Village & Brough with a link to Bamford railway station.

It's a popular route that is long established and attracts healthy loadings of full fare paying customers.

I'm not au fait with the underwriting of local authority funding of bus services, but why can't Derbyshire council & Sheffield council work together and use some of the £4million Derbyshire bus improvement fund and Sheffield City Council's contact with South Pennine (who have just expanded their business to a new depot in the north east of Sheffield & provide many contracted services on behalf of Sheffield council) to take over the route?

 

[mayneway]

Is this not fraud of some description?

Technically no. It’s the limited company that owes the money not the director.
However, a certain Blackpool independent operator many years ago did something very very similar and was dragged up to see the TC - and it all got a bit nasty!

Applying for a licence with an allowance of 20 vehicles clearly shows he’s got plenty of finances.
It’s a brave but foolish move!

 

[duncombec]

Well to say they Officially went under today according to TC info, a new company has already been registered to start operating from tomorrow surprisingly:

Traffic Commissioners got a new application today

20 Vehicles

Trading Name: Baslow Motor Services

Trading Address:
Calver Rd, Baslow, Bakewell DE45 1RP

Operators Address:
Calver Rd, Baslow, Bakewell DE45 1RP

Transport Manager (s):
Alf Crofts

Not to disagree, but do you have a weblink for this, please? I can't see anything on the "Find Lorry or Bus Operators" search on gov.uk, but that may simply be down to updating times.

 

[gazmark]

It's not good enough.

Castleton, Hope, & Hathersage are sizeable villages.

There are also various tourist attractions on this route such as Parson's House, Surprise View, Hathersage Open Air Pool, Devil's Arse & Castleton Museum/Visitor's Centre.

It also serves Hope Valley College.

It also provides Bradwell Village & Brough with a link to Bamford railway station.

It's a popular route that is long established and attracts healthy loadings of full fare paying customers.

I'm not au fait with the underwriting of local authority funding of bus services, but why can't Derbyshire council & Sheffield council work together and use some of the £4million Derbyshire bus improvement fund and Sheffield City Council's contact with South Pennine (who have just expanded their business to a new depot in the north east of Sheffield & provide many contracted services on behalf of Sheffield council) to take over the route?

I wouldn't bank on South Pennine being able to take on any more work. There new bus depot is round the corner from me and has a small work shed, which would 3 buses and a parking area which would hold another 2. Tm or Andrews would be the best bet to pick up any extra journeys on the 272

 

[SLC001]

It's not good enough.

Castleton, Hope, & Hathersage are sizeable villages.

There are also various tourist attractions on this route such as Parson's House, Surprise View, Hathersage Open Air Pool, Devil's Arse & Castleton Museum/Visitor's Centre.

It also serves Hope Valley College.

It also provides Bradwell Village & Brough with a link to Bamford railway station.

It's a popular route that is long established and attracts healthy loadings of full fare paying customers.

I'm not au fait with the underwriting of local authority funding of bus services, but why can't Derbyshire council & Sheffield council work together and use some of the £4million Derbyshire bus improvement fund and Sheffield City Council's contact with South Pennine (who have just expanded their business to a new depot in the north east of Sheffield & provide many contracted services on behalf of Sheffield council) to take over the route?

I am not entirely au fait regarding funding but one of my big concerns about franchising is that local authority boundaries do not align with natural flows of passengers. South Yorkshire may well want to fund part of the route but only up to the city (boundary). Castleton is outside the South Yorkshire area so the argument goes why should South Yorkshire pay for Castleton's buses? By way of an example, a bus service between Warrington and Manchester was withdrawn and only runs Manchester to the authority boundary and so what happens if you want to travel by bus across the boundary. (I also don't trust politicians, they don't understand the business and will spend tax payer monies on their own panacea projects. Also, small independents offering lower operational cost bases lose out. Don't get me wrong, the current situation in the Peak District is ridiculous and a hybrid system is required, i.e. centrally funded, knocking council's heads together.)

Furthermore, there is a lot of speculation going on here about what has happened at Hulleys, new registrations etc. It doesn't help this thread too much!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I am not entirely au fait regarding funding but one of my big concerns about franchising is that local authority boundaries do not align with natural flows of passengers. South Yorkshire may well want to fund part of the route but only up to the city (boundary). Castleton is outside the South Yorkshire area so the argument goes why should South Yorkshire pay for Castleton's buses? By way of an example, a bus service between Warrington and Manchester was withdrawn and only runs Manchester to the authority boundary and so what happens if you want to travel by bus across the boundary. (I also don't trust politicians, they don't understand the business and will spend tax payer monies on their own panacea projects. Also, small independents offering lower operational cost bases lose out. Don't get me wrong, the current situation in the Peak District is ridiculous and a hybrid system is required, i.e. centrally funded, knocking council's heads together.)

Replied here as this is going away from Hulleys:

Post-regulation regional bus services - a UK gap?

I am not entirely au fait regarding funding but one of my big concerns about franchising is that local authority boundaries do not align with natural flows of passengers. South Yorkshire may well want to fund part of the route but only up to the city (boundary). Castleton is outside the South...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[AWK]

All depends if these suggestions about drivers and missing pension contributions are true.
Pretty sure one driver claimed he’d been deducted pension contributions and NI but nothing had been paid for the last 3 months.

If he is granted a licence he’s then got to finance vehicles, sort a recovery contract, fuel supplier and find staff to work for him. Derbyshire is a fickle place where people don’t forget!

That's the big IF.

There's also the matter of the Hulley's licence. I presume an attempt will be made to surrender it, as is the norm when the owning company fails.

As there is an ongoing (adjourned) Public Inquiry in to both the Hulley's licence and their Transport Manager's standing, I would be highly surprised if the TC didn't include this new application as part of that PI, brining forward the resumption date.

My suspicion, based on previous similar cases, is that he will then not allow the surrender of the Hulley's licence but instead revoke it (revocation is a punishment, surrendering isn't, even though it's the same practical outcome), then determine the repute (or not) of the Transport Manager. If he deems the Transport Manager to have lost their repute, then he (the Transport Manager) can kiss away any chance of the new licence being granted.

 

[mayneway]

That's the big IF.

The claims were made by one of their drivers. Can’t see why they would make it up tbh.

As there is an ongoing (adjourned) Public Inquiry in to both the Hulley's licence and their Transport Manager's standing, I would be highly surprised if the TC didn't include this new application as part of that PI, brining forward the resumption date.

My suspicion, based on previous similar cases, is that he will then not allow the surrender of the Hulley's licence but instead revoke it (revocation is a punishment, surrendering isn't, even though it's the same practical outcome), then determine the repute (or not) of the Transport Manager. If he deems the Transport Manager to have lost their repute, then he (the Transport Manager) can kiss away any chance of the new licence being granted.

I would imagine the TC will look at why Hulley’s ultimately failed and ceased trading so abruptly owning such a large amount of money. Yes winding up one company then Starting a new one wipes away the debt but surly IF ( and it’s a big IF) he’s granted a new licence and is allowed to set up, how will the new company be better off? He’s still got to attract drivers to work for him and deal with the congestion, parked cars and everything else he pointed at being to blame for the massive reliability issues last year.

I honestly think the guy is deluded!

 

[Teapot42]

I honestly think the guy is deluded!

I'd maybe look at where this registration has come from and whether it is actually genuine - or if someone is trying to cause trouble.

 

[AWK]

The claims were made by one of their drivers. Can’t see why they would make it up tbh.

I was responding to the statement of "If he is granted a licence"

I would imagine the TC will look at why Hulley’s ultimately failed and ceased trading so abruptly owning such a large amount of money. Yes winding up one company then Starting a new one wipes away the debt but surly IF ( and it’s a big IF) he’s granted a new licence and is allowed to set up, how will the new company be better off? He’s still got to attract drivers to work for him and deal with the congestion, parked cars and everything else he pointed at being to blame for the massive reliability issues last year.

And what is he going to operate? He's former contracts have gone to other operators. and most of his commercial mileage is being picked up by others too.

Is there really 20 buses worth of new commercial mileage in that area? Coaches/Private hires? - again, the likes of Andrews have got that local market sewn up

I honestly think the guy is deluded!

No comment!

Well to say they Officially went under today according to TC info, a new company has already been registered to start operating from tomorrow surprisingly:

Traffic Commissioners got a new application today

20 Vehicles

Trading Name: Baslow Motor Services

Trading Address:
Calver Rd, Baslow, Bakewell DE45 1RP

Operators Address:
Calver Rd, Baslow, Bakewell DE45 1RP

Transport Manager (s):
Alf Crofts

Further to previous comments - there is no way a new licence application could have gone in today to "start operating from tomorrow" - new PSV licence applications are not considered that quickly!

 

[pointer]

Well to say they Officially went under today according to TC info, a new company has already been registered to start operating from tomorrow surprisingly:

Traffic Commissioners got a new application today

20 Vehicles

Trading Name: Baslow Motor Services

Trading Address:
Calver Rd, Baslow, Bakewell DE45 1RP

Operators Address:
Calver Rd, Baslow, Bakewell DE45 1RP

Transport Manager (s):
Alf Crofts

Absolute waffle. Nothing on the most recent publication of notices and proceedings, and TM would be listed as 'Alfred Vincent Crofts' as per Hulleys license. No such company registered either.

 

[m79900]

The 110/111 ran with two 16 seat Sprinters running in convoy. It looks like a shambles considering its a timetable public service, hopefully ACT get a couple of Solos or MPDs soon.

 

[Teapot42]

The 110/111 ran with two 16 seat Sprinters running in convoy. It looks like a shambles considering its a timetable public service, hopefully ACT get a couple of Solos or MPDs soon.

Is this all journeys, or just the schools ones?

If they are going to run two buses they might as well send one down the 110 route and the other down the 111 route.

 

[Russel]

The 110/111 ran with two 16 seat Sprinters running in convoy. It looks like a shambles considering its a timetable public service, hopefully ACT get a couple of Solos or MPDs soon.

I assume they are planning to acquire some suitable buses for the 110/111?

 

[AWK]

The 110/111 ran with two 16 seat Sprinters running in convoy. It looks like a shambles considering its a timetable public service, hopefully ACT get a couple of Solos or MPDs soon.

For goodness sake, give them chance!

They've picked up a contract at 48hrs notice. They've been able to deploy double the resources (4 buses not 2, 4 drivers not 2) which will have seen their costs for running the service pretty much double too.

They'll need a few days/weeks to get suitable vehicles in to the fleet and prepared for use. I'm sure if they'd gone to one of the dealers in Barnsley and returned with 2 scruffy ex London Darts with dual doors and no working destinations they'd be lambasted for that too.

A hell of a lot of hard work and long hours has gone in at DCC, Ashbourne CT, Andrews and Stagecoach over the past 48+ hours to get the level of service that is operating today. Two Sprinters in convoy is better than no service, or only 1 small vehicle and people being left behind!

Is this all journeys, or just the schools ones?

If they are going to run two buses they might as well send one down the 110 route and the other down the 111 route.

They have to stick to the registered timetable/route. Use of a duplicate vehicle following the service car is perfectly fine and appropriate

Absolute waffle. Nothing on the most recent publication of notices and proceedings, and TM would be listed as 'Alfred Vincent Crofts' as per Hulleys license. No such company registered either.

Indeed. This is a rather sick joke to be honest and has caused people considerable upset today giving them false hope that potentially they could get their old jobs back.

 

[plebb11]

Locks like high peak will now operate the journeys between first bus on services 271/272

Public Transport in Derbyshire & the Peak District

New bus companies set to run former Hulleys services from Thursday 27th March​

The network of bus services previously run by Hulleys of Baslow will now be operated by other local bus companies:​

• 63 Matlock – Ashover - Clay Cross – Chesterfield by Stagecoach​

• 110/111 Matlock – Wirksworth - Ashbourne by Ashbourne Community Transport​

• 170 Bakewell – Chesterfield – by Stagecoach Yorkshire​

• 172 Matlock – Birchover – Bakewell by Andrews of Tideswell​

• 173 Bakewell – Tideswell - Bradwell – Castleton by Andrews of Tideswell​

• 178 Bakewell – Shutts Lane by Andrews of Tideswell​

• 257 Bakewell – Bamford – Sheffield by Andrews of Tideswell​

• 271/272 journeys previously operated by Hulleys on the Castleton - Sheffield route will be operated by High Peak Buses from Friday 28th March at the same times.​

 

[Trainman40083]

Is this all journeys, or just the schools ones?

If they are going to run two buses they might as well send one down the 110 route and the other down the 111 route.

I would think the peak loads would be at school times, hence buses via different routes might not solve that.

 

[plebb11]

Looks like high peak buses will operate services 271/272 from friday

https://www.highpeakbuses.com/service-updates/

271 272 Castleton - SheffieldDate: Friday 28th March 2025​

High Peak Steps in to Safeguard Vital Bus Routes

High Peak Buses is pleased to announce that it will be taking over the operation of the 271/272 bus service from the 28th March 2025 ensuring that local residents continue to have access to essential transport links.

This decision comes following the unfortunate closure of Hulley’s of Baslow, which has left uncertainty surrounding the future of the route. Recognising the importance of this service to the community, High Peak Buses has worked closely with local authorities and stakeholders to ensure a smooth transition and minimal disruption for passengers.

The timetable and route will remain unchanged, we will be operating the services as per Hulley's.

Timetable can be found HERE

 

[zkyx02]

For everyone commenting about the 271/2 situation, high peak have announced this evening that they’ll be operating Hulleys journeys, glad to see they’ve gained some work after the whole 170 fiasco.

Link to source below: https://www.facebook.com/share/p/17yzQ1Nhxu/?mibextid=wwXIfr

The post says “fantastic news!! We will be operating the 271 272 castleton - Sheffield services via Bradwell, Bamford, hathersage, from Friday 28th April 2025”.

 

[markymark2000]

For everyone commenting about the 271/2 situation, high peak have announced this evening that they’ll be operating Hulleys journeys, glad to see they’ve gained some work after the whole 170 fiasco.

Link to source below: https://www.facebook.com/share/p/17yzQ1Nhxu/?mibextid=wwXIfr

I'd love for First to now decide to advertise they are taking on the trips and then for High Peak to throw their toys out of the pram again.

 

[BusesOfTheNW]

Does anyone know if any operator is doing the 55 yet, or are passengers just being left without a service?

 

[tram21]

Does anyone know if any operator is doing the 55 yet, or are passengers just being left without a service?

Not yet afaik

For everyone commenting about the 271/2 situation, high peak have announced this evening that they’ll be operating Hulleys journeys, glad to see they’ve gained some work after the whole 170 fiasco.

Link to source below: https://www.facebook.com/share/p/17yzQ1Nhxu/?mibextid=wwXIfr

This is excellent news

 

[Trainman40083]

For everyone commenting about the 271/2 situation, high peak have announced this evening that they’ll be operating Hulleys journeys, glad to see they’ve gained some work after the whole 170 fiasco.

Link to source below: https://www.facebook.com/share/p/17yzQ1Nhxu/?mibextid=wwXIfr

Timetables also on Bustimes