Hulley's of Baslow

[Teapot42]

The word “largely” is doing some heavy lifting. The route has obviously been shortened, as I suggested it would be, but the core has retained. Similarly, the times have changed but the headway has been maintained.

Saying the timetable is largely unchanged when it's at different times and runs for less of the day is very much heavy lifting. Also they mention it still going to the hospital when it doesn't.

So suspect that the service is mainly commercial but that DCC support certain elements

I guess my main question is what are the implications of this? Do DCC get any say if reliability remains similar to what Hulleys were providing? Or will they stay out of it and just accept what N&D can achieve?

They made a point that they weren't paying Hulleys for tendered services which didn't run - will there be penalties here as well?

 

[JKP]

Saying the timetable is largely unchanged when it's at different times and runs for less of the day is very much heavy lifting. Also they mention it still going to the hospital when it doesn't.

I guess my main question is what are the implications of this? Do DCC get any say if reliability remains similar to what Hulleys were providing? Or will they stay out of it and just accept what N&D can achieve?

They made a point that they weren't paying Hulleys for tendered services which didn't run - will there be penalties here as well?

That will depend on what DCC are paying for. If complete or part journeys are missed that are being paid for, then the Council could impose a penalty.

 

[AWK]

I'm told the Public Inquiry reconveines (in the same location as before) on the afternoon of 10th June.

 

[MotCO]

Whilst I agree with the latter, and indeed there is logic there, DVLA records show no new V5C (Vehicle logbook) has been issued for some of the Hulleys fleet since they were first purchased by Hulleys, many predate the current Owner (Mr Croft) and certainly not since the Holy Union between Hulleys and Go Coach. A change of registered keeper would result in a new V5C being issued (as would things such as changing the revenue weight or the colour of the vehicle).

I've quickly run the older Solos and E200s through DVLA online and most have a last V5C issue date around the time Hulleys acquired them, some back as far as 2011.

However, the Evoras had a new V5C in February 2024 and I can't see a logical reaspn why.

DVLA online records usually updated numerous times a day, it is pretty much real time information. If the Hulleys fleet had been sold to Go Coach any time up to 28th Feb this year when that operator became independent from Modeldart Ltd, there would be V5Cs issued to reflect that. For the majority of the Hulleys fleet, there haven't been.

What could be more likely is at some time just before the announcement was made to staff the Hulley's vehicles were sold to Modeldart Ltd (same owner as Hulleys but different legal entity and has not ceased trading) and the paperwork for this is still in Royal Mail's hands heading to Swansea. Modeldart Ltd has then sold the vehicles onwards?

In May's edition of Buses magazine which arrived today, an article on the demise of Hulleys states that the buses were owned by Go-Coach, hence the quick transfer of many to Andrews.

 

[317 forever]

In May's edition of Buses magazine which arrived today, an article on the demise of Hulleys states that the buses were owned by Go-Coach, hence the quick transfer of many to Andrews.

That's early! I thought it would only be available next Thursday or Friday. Maybe it's early due to Easter next weekend.

 

[38291018]

In May's edition of Buses magazine which arrived today, an article on the demise of Hulleys states that the buses were owned by Go-Coach, hence the quick transfer of many to Andrews.

So did hulleys just loan all of them when gocoach and hulleys split ways after there short time. Explains why the majority of MMC's went over to gocoach. Is andrews loaning them from gocoach too?

 

[MotCO]

So did hulleys just loan all of them when gocoach and hulleys split ways after there short time. Explains why the majority of MMC's went over to gocoach. Is andrews loaning them from gocoach too?

Maybe it was a 'sell and lease-back' to generate cash for Hulleys?

 

[SCH117X]

Does not explain how three vehicles have been acquired by Connexions and the loaned Solo from Connexions going to TM Travel.

 

[38291018]

Im assuming with this but

i assume the solo loaned from connections went TM travel as it wasn't needed now hulleys ain't here and connections didn't want it themselves why it was loaned out anyway so sold it tm when they couldn't generate cash from it

In regards to MMC's to goach assume this Is because I'm pretty sure there leased from minstrel so gochoach took the loan on when they put all the hulleys buses into the gocoach business meaning the owned and leased minstrel buses was all broughs and leased in goaches name not hulleys whereas the solo would still be comnexion owned to hulleys not gocoach

Idk how any other connection aquired vehicles has been put into there fleet unless they just offered to take some buses they wanted off gocoach or minstrels hands

 

[mayneway]

I find it slightly hard to believe - and of course Buses Magazine doesn’t always have to be taken as gospel!
Given the very public parting of the ways with Hulleys and Go Coach it just doesn’t seem plausible that during the sale back to the original owner vehicles wouldn’t be transferred back to the Hulleys business.

Further more if there was an agreement that Go coach would own/lease the entire fleet and loan them back to Hulleys - why did Hulleys have to take loan vehicles from Connexcions and Buslink when it would have made more sense to loan them from Go-coach?

 

[_toommm_]

I swear yesterday around 11:30 I saw a Hulleys liveried bus on the A658 (Pool Bank New Road) at the crossroad with the A660 (Leeds Road). Does anyone have any information on it?

 

[Trainman40083]

I swear yesterday around 11:30 I saw a Hulleys liveried bus on the A658 (Pool Bank New Road) at the crossroad with the A660 (Leeds Road). Does anyone have any information on it?

Some buses in Hulleys livery are running for Andrews

 

[TC60054]

I swear yesterday around 11:30 I saw a Hulleys liveried bus on the A658 (Pool Bank New Road) at the crossroad with the A660 (Leeds Road). Does anyone have any information on it?

Assuming this is Leeds given the "Leeds Road", it's likely one of the three Hulleys vehicles that have gone to Connexions you've seen - I think the Enviro200 that has moved that way is in service in Hulleys livery whilst the two Evoras are waiting repaint before being entered into service.

 

[SCH117X]

I swear yesterday around 11:30 I saw a Hulleys liveried bus on the A658 (Pool Bank New Road) at the crossroad with the A660 (Leeds Road). Does anyone have any information on it?

Enviro YX12 DHN - Connexions put it in service without even removing the fleetnames so its been confusing passengers on the 21/22 Castleford/Seacroft services until yesterday when they put in on Wharfedale services 940 and 965

DHN YX12 DHN at Otley

Recently acquired ADL enviro 200, YX12 DHN following the demise of Hulleys of Baslow, is seen in Otley working the 956 town service.

www.flickr.com

 

[Teapot42]

Does not explain how three vehicles have been acquired by Connexions and the loaned Solo from Connexions going to TM Travel.

I've not seen the article (it is available online?) but it isn't impossible that some vehicles where with Go Coach and others with Connexions. Alternatively, as the Evoras were leased maybe they didn't transfer to Go Coach and the leases were picked up by Connexions at some point? They aren't a type Go Coach operate, but Connexions did have some already.

The Solo didn't seem to get much use with Hulleys, I'm sure I saw comments about it being unreliable. Possibly Connexions decided they didn't want to resolve the problems and moved it on to TM instead?

As an aside, one of the MMCs (No 1, the 23 reg example) has already left More Bus and is now on loan to East Yorkshire.

Given the very public parting of the ways with Hulleys and Go Coach it just doesn’t seem plausible that during the sale back to the original owner vehicles wouldn’t be transferred back to the Hulleys business.

It isn't impossible that Go Coach took on some debt from Hulleys, with the vehicles as collateral? The fact the sale was apparently for a nominal £1 would suggest there were other considerations in play.

Further more if there was an agreement that Go coach would own/lease the entire fleet and loan them back to Hulleys - why did Hulleys have to take loan vehicles from Connexcions and Buslink when it would have made more sense to loan them from Go-coach?

Could be the agreement was for them to be loaned, but nothing further could be agreed? I can't see Go Coach being willing to do any favours, and would have good knowledge of Hulleys ability to pay for any loans.

One thing I did wonder, one reason they struggled so much towards the end was poor reliability of the fleet. I'm not familiar with how these agreements usually work, but would there not be some mechanism to provide temporary cover for a vehicle that needed repair beyond what would be considered normal for an operator to handle in-house? Hulleys not being able to fix their own vehicles is different from being unable to run services due to vehicles on loan from elsewhere being faulty.

 

[mayneway]

One thing I did wonder, one reason they struggled so much towards the end was poor reliability of the fleet. I'm not familiar with how these agreements usually work, but would there not be some mechanism to provide temporary cover for a vehicle that needed repair beyond what would be considered normal for an operator to handle in-house? Hulleys not being able to fix their own vehicles is different from being unable to run services due to vehicles on loan from elsewhere being faulty.

Given Austin’s engineering background, and remember the original reason Go Coach was sold to Hulleys was so he could focus on the engineering side of things you would have thought once the sale was reverted HAD they retained ownership of the Hulleys Fleet there would have been movements of Hulleys vehicles to Go Coach for repair etc.

Red herrings spring to mind.

 

[MotCO]

Go-Coach had bought some Enviro 400s for a contract it had to provide some Amazon routes which did not last very long (the contract, not the buses!) Maybe they had surplus buses they could not pass on, so lent some to Hulleys?

 

[_toommm_]

Enviro YX12 DHN - Connexions put it in service without even removing the fleetnames so its been confusing passengers on the 21/22 Castleford/Seacroft services until yesterday when they put in on Wharfedale services 940 and 965

DHN YX12 DHN at Otley

Recently acquired ADL enviro 200, YX12 DHN following the demise of Hulleys of Baslow, is seen in Otley working the 956 town service.

www.flickr.com

Thank you, that's the one guessing it was running on the 940.

 

[duncombec]

I'm told the Public Inquiry reconveines (in the same location as before) on the afternoon of 10th June.

The inquiry for Alf Crofts as Transport Manager is listed in this week's South East & Metropolitan N&P for 10 June at 13:30 in Warrington, so this appears to be accurate. Confirmation will no doubt follow in this week's North West N&P.

 

[mayneway]

The inquiry for Alf Crofts as Transport Manager is listed in this week's South East & Metropolitan N&P for 10 June at 13:30 in Warrington, so this appears to be accurate. Confirmation will no doubt follow in this week's North West N&P.

Hope he doesn’t have a holiday booked - sorry couldn’t resist.

 

[SCH117X]

Go-Coach had bought some Enviro 400s for a contract it had to provide some Amazon routes which did not last very long (the contract, not the buses!) Maybe they had surplus buses they could not pass on, so lent some to Hulleys?

Bus times changes for Go Coach start mentioning Hulleys with a quickly cancelled move of Solo YJ11EKB in Aug 2022
Its then quite until October 2023 from when a procession of vehilces start moving
Optare Versa YG59GFO
Enviro 400 LK57 AXT
Optare Solo YJ11 EKB
Enviro 400 SK07 DZA
Enviro 400 SN59 AWC
Optare Solo YJ59 GFG
Optare Tempo YJ11 EHR
Enviro 200 YX74ODP
Enviro 400 LK57AYB
All are back with Go Coach bar Enviro 400 LK57AYB which is with Andrews.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Go-Coach had bought some Enviro 400s for a contract it had to provide some Amazon routes which did not last very long (the contract, not the buses!) Maybe they had surplus buses they could not pass on, so lent some to Hulleys?

Those e400s went in 2022 and were sold via Ensign to First who converted them to open top for Exmoor.

 

[Teapot42]

Bus times changes for Go Coach start mentioning Hulleys with a quickly cancelled move of Solo YJ11EKB in Aug 2022
Its then quite until October 2023 from when a procession of vehilces start moving
...

From what I can tell, LK57AYB was sold to Hulleys prior to the purchase of Go Coach by Alf Crofts. The remainder were loans to cover Hulleys vehicles moving to Go Coach for service / MOT work. Aside from YX74ODP which was one of the MMCs which started with Hulleys but didn't last long.

I'm tolerably sure there were more loans or sales between Aug 2022 and July 23 (when the E400 was sold to Hulleys) but as bustimes has scrubbed all Hulleys data (unless you can work out how to create links to it) then it's hard to tell.

 

[Murray J]

I'm tolerably sure there were more loans or sales between Aug 2022 and July 23 (when the E400 was sold to Hulleys) but as bustimes has scrubbed all Hulleys data (unless you can work out how to create links to it) then it's hard to tell.

There were quite. Few yeah, mostly over Summer 2024. During the period you're referring to 2 Solos were also sold to Hulleys.

 

[IamTrainsYT]

2 Solos were also sold to Hulleys.

3.
YJ57 XWP
YJ57 XWR
YJ57 XWN
LK57 AYB was also sold

Loans:
SK07 DZA
LK57 AXT
YJ09 MMO
SN59 AWC
YJ59 GFO
YJ11 EKB
YJ62 FUD
YJ18 DKX

 

[Teapot42]

3.
YJ57 XWP
YJ57 XWR
YJ57 XWN

Got to admit I don't really remember the last two - they can't have lasted long in the fleet if they were purchased. The last one didn't even show up on bustimes under Hulleys.

Did any of the pre-Go Coach E400 acquisitions come from there? I know they were all ex-London, but don't know if they were bought from Go Coach or elsewhere.

 

[Trainman40083]

I remember two Solos coming in from Newbury and District. One didn't last long at all, and was soon withdrawn.

 

[zkyx02]

I remember two Solos coming in from Newbury and District. One didn't last long at all, and was soon withdrawn.

1 didn’t enter service & the other spontaneously combusted & took another vehicle with it.

 

[IamTrainsYT]

Got to admit I don't really remember the last two

The last one was the metrocity that was on loan for a long period- very nice motor that one (probably thr nicest bus I’ve driven)

The other was an ex london dual door solo SR which I don’t think lasted long and it spent most its time on 110/111

Did any of the pre-Go Coach E400 acquisitions come from there?

No - The other three came from ensignbus

 

[Teapot42]

The last one was the metrocity that was on loan for a long period- very nice motor that one (probably thr nicest bus I’ve driven)

The other was an ex london dual door solo SR which I don’t think lasted long and it spent most its time on 110/111

Sorry, I meant the three registrations I quoted. I can find YJ57XWR on bustimes against Hulleys but only for a few months, and YJ57XWN only shows under Go Coach.