Hydrive project expansion?

[chiltern trev]

If the hybrid 168 works, why not just do the same for the 165s but geared for 75mph. Then Chiltern just have one underfloor powerpack type to maintain.

Could also consider doing the same with 166s.

 

[Mikey C]

If the hybrid 168 works, why not just do the same for the 165s but geared for 75mph. Then Chiltern just have one underfloor powerpack type to maintain.

Could also consider doing the same with 166s.

The 165s are older trains with different engines etc underneath. It would be a major exercise to install the same system

 

[fgwrich]

The 165s are older trains with different engines etc underneath. It would be a major exercise to install the same system

It’s not so much a case of that as the new design replaces a lot of what is currently under the units previously, but that both fleets are from differing Lease co’s and both leasing co’s are running with different projects. Eg Porterbrook with Hybrid Flex and Angel with Hydrive. Sometimes they can co-operate but it’s rare - eg, Porterbrook TSD Design in Porterbrook’s FGW HSTs, Angel design sliding doors on Porterbrook XC HST vehicles etc.

 

[tomuk]

The 165s are older trains with different engines etc underneath. It would be a major exercise to install the same system

As you correctly state the 165s are a wholly different train compared to the 168s. On the hybrid 168 they are swapping out the existing engine for basically the latest version of the same MTU 6 cylinder diesel albeit with a different transmission and electric motor. The same family of MTU engines have been used all the way through the 168s, 170s and 172s and is still fitted to the new 195s,196s and 197s. The replacement engine rafts etc are all provided by MTU and are as near as to plug and as you could get. It is very much an upgrade of the existing drivetrain.

On the other hand the 165s are nearly 10 years older and no further similar trains produced since. You would need to design a specific drivetrain and are likely to run into more obsolescence issues and other unknowns. This added complexity and shorter life of the units probably makes a 'premiere OEM' solution from MTU unaffordable. The Hydrive solution proposed for the 165s was a lot more experimental and from a smaller manufacturer, arguably more a research company, it is\was a lot riskier but if it pays off there would be big rewards for the company.

 

[AlistairCowell]

As you correctly state the 165s are a wholly different train compared to the 168s. On the hybrid 168 they are swapping out the existing engine for basically the latest version of the same MTU 6 cylinder diesel albeit with a different transmission and electric motor. The same family of MTU engines have been used all the way through the 168s, 170s and 172s and is still fitted to the new 195s,196s and 197s. The replacement engine rafts etc are all provided by MTU and are as near as to plug and as you could get. It is very much an upgrade of the existing drivetrain.

Also failed to mention is the Class 171 units used on Southern.

Classes 168s, 170s and 171s have Voith hydraulic transmission, while the 172s, 195s, 196s and 197s have ZF mechanical transmission, but all classes mentioned have MTU engines. Class 165 units are fitted with Perkins engines, so the class are different from the Turbostars, although Turbostars were based on the Class 165 Turbos.

 

[tomuk]

Also failed to mention is the Class 171 units used on Southern.

Classes 168s, 170s and 171s have Voith hydraulic transmission, while the 172s, 195s, 196s and 197s have ZF mechanical transmission, but all classes mentioned have MTU engines. Class 165 units are fitted with Perkins engines, so the class are different from the Turbostars, although Turbostars were based on the Class 165 Turbos.

The Turbosars aren't based on the 165/166 Turbos they are completely different despite the 168/0s share the cab styling. The Turbostars (and Electrostars) are the 3rd generation aluminium bodied design from BREL/Adtranz/Bombardier after the 1st Gen 158/159 and the 2nd Gen Networkers (465/365/165/166)