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I chose not to board the train at the nearest door and it left without me

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Robertj21a

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Without judging the OP (who did ask a very open question), given that inter-car access is available I would just board as soon as possible. This would apply at any time but is sacrosanct on the last train!
I just wonder if there would be different responses if it had been a woman walking past the carriages before trying to get on?. It's probably even more likely that she does indeed intend to catch the train, but wants to be careful who she sits with. Not everybody knows that you can move between all/some of the carriages.
 
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mmh

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It was explained - they wanted to board the carriage with the toilet in. You never know with those trains - sometimes the interconnecting carriage doors don't work properly. Just yesterday I was sat on one at Victoria and nobody could work out how open the doors of the next carriage. I sat and watched a dozen people try and fail. None of them attempted to hold down the button or wave at the overhead sensor mind. Prying the doors apart isn't exactly advisable, especially for anyone with long nails.

I'm going to guess that will have been a 455/466, they seem particularly bad. Used to often see people doing the overhead sensor wave - I've done it myself! To be fair though, I've never seen a problem with it on other units, and I think they might be the last trains around with a sensor-controlled door?
 

ExRes

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I just wonder if there would be different responses if it had been a woman walking past the carriages before trying to get on?. It's probably even more likely that she does indeed intend to catch the train, but wants to be careful who she sits with. Not everybody knows that you can move between all/some of the carriages.

I think this is just argument for arguments sake, why are older men, in particular, accused of being sexist dinosaurs for considering there to be any necessity to treat women differently to men? no man or woman can "be careful who" they sit with, am I on my way home from a shift with The Samaritans or am I a sex pervert?
 

Lockwood

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The number of times, back in the days of the slam door trains, I would try to board with a bicycle at one van for it to be locked. Station staff, or sometimes the guard, would direct me to the other one.
There was a strong probability that the train would be dispatched in that time.

It did also change whether the front, back, or both vans would be unlocked.
 

RJ

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I'm going to guess that will have been a 455/466, they seem particularly bad. Used to often see people doing the overhead sensor wave - I've done it myself! To be fair though, I've never seen a problem with it on other units, and I think they might be the last trains around with a sensor-controlled door?

Yes - I’ve been using those trains for the best part of 25 years and know those doors sometimes merely hiss at you or open then snap shut in quick succession. I think it’s the 465/2s and 466s that misbehave more, the others have buttons on both sides of each set of doors that work most of the time.

To throw a different perspective on things if the OP really needed the loo it might have been a factor to avoid those doors.
 

theking

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I just wonder if there would be different responses if it had been a woman walking past the carriages before trying to get on?. It's probably even more likely that she does indeed intend to catch the train, but wants to be careful who she sits with. Not everybody knows that you can move between all/some of the carriages.

No they'd be exactly the same just like when the op tried to use the disabled or mobility impared card to justify his actions.

And unless you have never been on a train before I'm pretty sure people know they can move between carriages.

Some of these justifications are just bizarre
 

swt_passenger

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Two questions here:

1. Why do we have to press the button to open train doors here (and elsewhere in Europe)? All doors on trains open and close automatically on trains in Asian countries.
They already work like that on appropriate routes, there’s obviously LU, but in central London Thameslink open all doors automatically. I see no reason why it won’t be extended to other routes such as SWR‘s inner stations. But you won’t be seeing it across the country anytime soon.
 

XAM2175

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They already work like that on appropriate routes, there’s obviously LU, but in central London Thameslink open all doors automatically.
LU being notable for having made several attempts to introduce push-button doors over the years, starting with the D78 stock if I recall correctly, but ultimately giving up every time - in part because it kept confusing passengers.
 

AM9

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They already work like that on appropriate routes, there’s obviously LU, but in central London Thameslink open all doors automatically. I see no reason why it won’t be extended to other routes such as SWR‘s inner stations. But you won’t be seeing it across the country anytime soon.
For a start there would be the chorus complaining that it made their car cold even when nobody got on or off!
 

Robertj21a

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No they'd be exactly the same just like when the op tried to use the disabled or mobility impared card to justify his actions.

And unless you have never been on a train before I'm pretty sure people know they can move between carriages.

Some of these justifications are just bizarre
So, a lone female going to catch the last train of the day, but who is reluctant to join a rowdy crowd of drunken lads would still be left behind.
Oh well, I suppose at least it meets any equality bias concerns....
:rolleyes:
 

baz962

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And what if every carriage had rowdy drunken lads.
So, a lone female going to catch the last train of the day, but who is reluctant to join a rowdy crowd of drunken lads would still be left behind.
Oh well, I suppose at least it meets any equality bias concerns....
:rolleyes:
 

bb21

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So, a lone female going to catch the last train of the day, but who is reluctant to join a rowdy crowd of drunken lads would still be left behind.
Oh well, I suppose at least it meets any equality bias concerns....
:rolleyes:

I think a bit of common sense would help the discussion.

In your case the female would likely be walking with intent and purpose which, if you take what resident drivers on this forum said above, would be something they would likely notice. If said female dawdled on the platform and was potentially out of the driver's view for a few seconds, then unfortunately the driver may assume she did not wish to board, hence be potentially left behind. I would imagine in your given scenario most people would run/jog to the next set of doors, which would not normally result in them being out of the driver's view for long, if at all, and if a driver sees someone hurrying for a set of doors I hardly think they would dispatch and go, unless they had already commenced dispatch procedure.

Not saying mistakes won't happen, or that every driver wishes to act like a customer service champion at all times, but ultimately the customer does need a bit of common sense when catching the last train and a responsibility not to mess about. In the rare event that the driver made a mistake, that is what customer service teams and help points are there for.

I have a solution which I doubt some forum members would like. If it were the last train I normally make sure anyone I can see remaining on the platform got on if they need the train even if they weren't physically moving themselves up to the train, give a shout to the dawdlers, look out for late-runners, give a hand to people with luggage/pram or mobility issues, and generally prefer to dispatch at 00 seconds rather than 30 seconds early where conditions allow. If I have just closed the doors (but not yet given the driver two) and someone came charging up the stairs I would in most cases let them on provided there is no good reason not to, because it is a nice thing to do and it avoids anyone being left in a sticky position. Unfortunately many of these things a DOO train cannot do, not to mention the driver may not be aware it were the last train. A guard can potentially babysit passengers if needed be alongside running the train service. An OBM type may or may not be able to depending on their specific list of responsibilities. A driver can keep an eye out within reason, but still has a job to do up front.

I don't think going down the road of ifs and buts is constructive or useful. Yes, she could have mobility issues or be disabled but in that case I would expect most to board at the nearest door and move about when on the train, or a carer would be alongside to help her. If the train is wedged full of drunkards and idiots then I would expect the driver to be aware hence paying more attention at stations. The probability of a vulnerable lone female being left behind by the last train because she was wanting to avoid a group of nasty BNP-types and the driver closed the door on her while she was dawdling along the platform outside the driver's view for more than a few seconds is not zero, but vanishingly small. Then again having a guard (almost guaranteed) or OBM type (possibly) onboard will look after that.

Could the railway do more to look after the customers in these cases even on DOO trains? Yes, perhaps. As someone already mentioned above, the railway can plan to have additional dwell times at stations, however increasing pressure on later services and engineering access requirements over the years meant the margin between the last train movement and start of engineering possession is often small, so the only way to get additional dwell time is either to compress possession window (which potentially leads to faults taking longer to fix and/or disruption over a longer period of time) or an earlier start of the last train from origin (potentially causing inconvenience to those requiring it at affected stations or breaking people's last journey opportunities). I don't know which one would cause more problems/give more benefits, but if a happy compromise can be reached then yes, we can have however long dwell time we want at each station in order to ensure every last possibility is catered for. We will just need to decide how long is long enough, whether the driver needs to leave his cab to ensure drunks fast asleep on the bench were all woken up and looked after, etc.

I don't know the specific circumstances of the OP's case so cannot comment further than what others have already said. At a quiet location on a quiet day, the driver will not likely hang about if they didn't see anyone wanting their service, especially if the train is already late as they will not necessarily know what is planned for the line after the train and what knock-on effect there could be.
 

24Grange

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But to depart even when the driver and staff can see people hurrying to catch the train? Delay Minutes V Customers?

Once my wife, baby, mother and I got attempted to get on a train at somewhere like London Bridge ( or one of the London Stations anyway) My wife got on first, pulling the baby in pushchair behind, I followed. before my 84 year old mother could attempt to board. bleep bleep door slammed shut. Result Mother was left on the station ! ( staff were very good). I shudder to think what would have happened if the pushchair or my mother got stuck in the doors when the train sped off. My point being some stations have a very few minutes of " open door" time ( 1 - 2 minutes) before the doors are shut and the train speeds away. Heaven help the disabled or those with "slow" mobility.
 

TheEdge

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But to depart even when the driver and staff can see people hurrying to catch the train? Delay Minutes V Customers?

It already been established in this case by the OPs own admission they were not hurrying. No one was hurrying.

I shudder to think what would have happened if the pushchair or my mother got stuck in the doors when the train sped off.

Absolutely nothing because there is a difference between closing the doors when someone is on the platform and making no attempt to get on and a driver, conductor or platform staff checking the Platform Train Interface for trapped people before dispatching. Comparing apples and oranges there.

My point being some stations have a very few minutes of " open door" time ( 1 - 2 minutes) before the doors are shut and the train speeds away. Heaven help the disabled or those with "slow" mobility.

In the old days (and probably with DfT wanting their Covid money back more widespread soon) a conductor or platform staff would have been on every platform and able to confirm the needs of passengers like that far better than a driver locked in a cab several hundred meters away judging things in a mirror or on a small screen before dispatching. Its as if all the rail staff pointing out that the DOO debate is about more than "who closes the doors" were onto something...
 

Islineclear3_1

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My point being some stations have a very few minutes of " open door" time ( 1 - 2 minutes) before the doors are shut and the train speeds away. Heaven help the disabled or those with "slow" mobility.

Yes but it is highly unlikely that a disabled person, or person with reduced mobility is going to be catching the last service at the dead of night :rolleyes:
 

Need2

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But to depart even when the driver and staff can see people hurrying to catch the train? Delay Minutes V Customers?

Once my wife, baby, mother and I got attempted to get on a train at somewhere like London Bridge ( or one of the London Stations anyway) My wife got on first, pulling the baby in pushchair behind, I followed. before my 84 year old mother could attempt to board. bleep bleep door slammed shut. Result Mother was left on the station ! ( staff were very good). I shudder to think what would have happened if the pushchair or my mother got stuck in the doors when the train sped off. My point being some stations have a very few minutes of " open door" time ( 1 - 2 minutes) before the doors are shut and the train speeds away. Heaven help the disabled or those with "slow" mobility.

Even if you’ve sat at a station for 2,3,4 or more minutes with the doors open, you’d be amazed at the amount of times a passenger suddenly jumps off the train when you press the doors close button!

As for driving off with a person or a pushchair stuck in the doors, although not impossible it is very close to being so.

Believe it or not, in doo land it’s hard enough to keep your eye on everything on the platform at one time yet alone to see who’s boarding with who.

Back to the op’s original point, which has been done to death now.
If you are not making a concerted effort and appear to be trying to board a train, especially when it’s late, you will run the very likely risk of having the doors shut in front of you.
First train, last train or any in between, male or female makes no difference.
Most of the time the driver has no idea if it’s the last service and with doo you can’t even tell the sex of a person most of the time.
Drivers are not out to annoy and disrupt your lives
 

bb21

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But to depart even when the driver and staff can see people hurrying to catch the train? Delay Minutes V Customers?

Once my wife, baby, mother and I got attempted to get on a train at somewhere like London Bridge ( or one of the London Stations anyway) My wife got on first, pulling the baby in pushchair behind, I followed. before my 84 year old mother could attempt to board. bleep bleep door slammed shut. Result Mother was left on the station ! ( staff were very good). I shudder to think what would have happened if the pushchair or my mother got stuck in the doors when the train sped off. My point being some stations have a very few minutes of " open door" time ( 1 - 2 minutes) before the doors are shut and the train speeds away. Heaven help the disabled or those with "slow" mobility.

Assuming that you kept a close distance between you all, I can't rule out the possibility that the driver made a mistake. It is possible, after all we are all human. Are you saying they did it deliberately to save delay minutes and chose to trap your elderly mother on the platform? No driver will ever do that.

You'll be lucky you get that long at most stations. A lot of suburban stations will only have 30 seconds, but that still doesn't mean any member of railway staff will set out deliberately to separate parties and leave some people behind.

Instead of hypothesising the disabled or those with reduced mobility being left behind, do you actually have an example of that happening because the driver was chasing his schedule (as opposed to rolling stock not accessible which is a whole different topic)?
 

al78

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Indeed, any reason. Really, it's nobody's business. It's not for women to not travel, it's for men to behave better, whoever is more at risk from that behaviour.
Agreed. I hope we never get to the stage where we advise people to restrict their freedom on the basis of a small probability they will be a victim of malice. Much better to address the issue with the harmful minority than blame the victims.
 

RPM

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Moving back to the original question, I would kind of go for "got what you deserved" but I personally would word it a little less harshly. "Sadly inevitable given your actions" maybe. As a DOO driver I certainly try to take into account things like service frequency from a station when deciding whether to incur delay and reopen the doors for someone. I'll give folks considerably more leeway when it is the last train of the day too. However, it is very annoying indeed when Last Minute Charlies do not board by the nearest available door. I find it rather selfish - keeping the whole train waiting while they select a door that suits them.
As other DOO drivers have said upthread, leaving somebody behind is not always intentional. DOO equipment can be less than perfect. Even if it is in good order, it is designed to give the optimal view of the PTI, not the whole platform. It can also be very difficult to distinguish a passenger who has just got off from one who wants to get on.
 

choochoochoo

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Moving back to the original question, I would kind of go for "got what you deserved" but I personally would word it a little less harshly. "Sadly inevitable given your actions" maybe. As a DOO driver I certainly try to take into account things like service frequency from a station when deciding whether to incur delay and reopen the doors for someone. I'll give folks considerably more leeway when it is the last train of the day too. However, it is very annoying indeed when Last Minute Charlies do not board by the nearest available door. I find it rather selfish - keeping the whole train waiting while they select a door that suits them.
As other DOO drivers have said upthread, leaving somebody behind is not always intentional. DOO equipment can be less than perfect. Even if it is in good order, it is designed to give the optimal view of the PTI, not the whole platform. It can also be very difficult to distinguish a passenger who has just got off from one who wants to get on.
Also on our DOO stock, the camera images do not come up immediately once door release is pressed. Almost have to wait over a two second for the images to show in the cab. In that time I've missed some of those who have got on and off.
 

61653 HTAFC

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Yes but it is highly unlikely that a disabled person, or person with reduced mobility is going to be catching the last service at the dead of night :rolleyes:
It might well be "highly unlikely", but that person has the same right to catch that train as any other person. Just the same as a 5'2" woman having the same right to catch that train as a 6'6" male prop forward does.

This thread is revealing some (hopefully unconscious) bias.
 
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