So of course I know Im stupid and accept full blame. For the past maybe 2-3 years I have been using a 16-17 railcard and i purchase shorter destinations as there are no barriers where I live. For the past 3 months I have been purchasing clapham junction to vauxhall on a 16-17 railcard and have been caught. When I got caught I panicked and lied and said I travelled from Twickenham when I always travel from Ashford. I do however have a 16-25 railcard which I showed. They scanned my e ticket so of course will be able to see my purchase history. I am extremely scared and worried as I never realised what I was doing was criminal. I know I am going to be looking at a huge fine. Would anyone know how much I would be looking at so I can start saving? just a rough estimate? and will I go to court straight away or an interview? I know I am completely stupid but I have been doing this for basically every journey I take and I am so scared of the consequences.
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I have been using 16-17 and short far how much will I be fined?
- Thread starter olivia16c
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ikcdab
Member
Welcome to the forum. You have come to the right place.
You haven't said which company you were caught by, they have different prosecution policies.
Some will offer you an out of court settlement, others almost always prosecute.
Either way, you will likely be asked to pay the anytime single rate for each journey they consider you have avoided fares. On top of this there will be an admin fee of around £150. Then if you go to court, you have their surcharges to add.
For now you need to wait for them to write to you and, as you say, start saving up.
You haven't said which company you were caught by, they have different prosecution policies.
Some will offer you an out of court settlement, others almost always prosecute.
Either way, you will likely be asked to pay the anytime single rate for each journey they consider you have avoided fares. On top of this there will be an admin fee of around £150. Then if you go to court, you have their surcharges to add.
For now you need to wait for them to write to you and, as you say, start saving up.
Trainman40083
Established Member
Almost certainly South Western Railway with those stations.
Thanks for your reply it was south western railway
flashberry43
Member
So how many times over the last 2-3 years have you used the 16-17 railcard, and how many times over the last 3 months have you been short faring Clapham to Vauxhall?
Once you get this number, multiply it by the anytime single each way (I assume you were returning too) and that will be the likely amount you have to pay (plus administration costs of £150+)
Trainman40083
Established Member
The OP seemed to suggest they always travelled from Ashford (Middlesex)...but bought a ticket Clapham to Vauxhall (if I read it right)..
flashberry43
Member
Indeed. But if they used it daily, weekly or monthly the outcome in terms of cost will be vastly different!
OP, are you eligible to get a Railcard, and have you? That would be a priority.
OP, are you eligible to get a Railcard, and have you? That would be a priority.
AlbertBeale
Established Member
It sounds implausible that you didn't think it was criminal behaviour! But, as others have said, if it's SWR, and you co-operate, and pay what they ask, you can probably avoid being taken to court. But it'll cost you a lot more than if you'd bought the right tickets in the first place. (Because they'll probably charge the full single fare for every journey, not discounted and not return prices; and they'll ignore what you've already paid; and there'll be the admin fee on top.)
I'm also a bit confused about you having a railcard, but not the one you were pretending to have to justify discounted tickets.
I'm also a bit confused about you having a railcard, but not the one you were pretending to have to justify discounted tickets.
The 16-17 saver gives a 50% discount,
The 16-25 gives a 33.3% discount . The 16-25 railcard also has a £12 minimum fare for 10 months of the year.
Before 10am a single from Ashford to Waterloo would currently be £10.10 with a 16-25 card (no discount on the non railcard price), yet £5.05 with the 16/17 card.
AlbertBeale
Established Member
Ah - thanks. This of course adds to the evidence for SWT that it was all very deliberate (though I guess that isn't disputed). So it's just a case of having to wait for the letter from SWT and take it from there.
Long story short I used to buy tickets with a railcard I did not own. They sent me a letter saying I need to pay almost £3000 in 21 days. Firstly I accept full responsibility and I am not trying to avoid paying this. My problem is I can not afford this at all at the moment. I have been going through some rough times I lost my job and had an ex bf steal some money from me which I can’t get back. I am currently in overdraft and was unemployed and only recently started a new job last week. I have no way to afford this I have no family or friends who could even lend me the money. What do i do as I am extremely stressed out I genuinely have no means to pay this off right now especially such a large amount of money. Any advice? I only just received the letter today
Do you dispute any of the amounts? Have they given a breakdown of the amounts owing? Were you stopped while travelling? If so, when was this?
Please also upload any correspondence they’ve sent you with your name and address redacted.
Please also upload any correspondence they’ve sent you with your name and address redacted.
methecooldude
Member
- Joined
- 14 Dec 2015
- Messages
- 334
That is quite the amount. What kind of journeys were you doing with the non-existent railcard?
You’re not being fined. You’re being asked to pay money they say you owe. So, ask for a breakdown of this and take the time to make sure it’s correct. They may offer a payment plan in rare circumstances but they are not under any obligation to do this, and indeed their time limit to prosecute you expires in three months so the monies will need to be paid before then.
If you have no money whatsoever and no prospect of obtaining a loan, regardless of the amount, you will be prosecuted for the offence. This is likely to be for only the one offence where you were actually stopped, and likely for a Bylaw 18 offence. If this happens, it will be either via:
A Single Justice Procedure Notice, which means the court will deal with a single offence on paper, or
A postal requisition if other offences are detected, and you are asked if you’d like these taken into consideration. The court will deal with the offences all at once, and you must attend.
If you plead or are otherwise found guilty, the court will penalise you as follows:
- A fine based on your income (the sentence for the offence)
- A surcharge of 40% of the value of the fine
- A contribution towards TfL's costs
- Compensation for the fares avoided
The conviction should be spent after one year but if you enter any profession not covered by the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act you will need to disclose the conviction for all time, even if it is spent. Unlock is a charity which can help you understand this.
The "interview" is a billing line on the calculation of costs but this has a zero (nil) value. Self evidently SWR uses a template document.
Only if you wish to avoid going to court and being convicted.
If you are convicted in a court of law, the court fines officer will set up a payment plan with you.
The options are:
1. Find the money (somehow) and pay SWR in full. The matter would then be closed.
You could ask them if they would consider two or three equal payments paid over two or three months but my view is they would not accept this. There is of course no harm in trying.
OR
2. Explain to SWR the situation ie you can not pay who will then in all probability take you to court. Once found guilty set up a payment plan with the courts fines officer. This would be based on your ability to pay which could mean it being spread over 12 months or so.
Judging by the attached media, looks like malicious use of 16-17 saver which offers a 50% discount, whilst being an adult.
Egg Centric
Established Member
How old are you?
It may be worth noting that the attachment also refers to short fares, so it is not just applying a railcard discount that doesn't apply. That is quite likely to increase substantially the amount due, and may explain why it is so high. But I agree that you should get a breakdown of the amount due - they will have that, and should be willing to provide it.
One thing you can before you get the summons is to approach the prosecutions team with an offer for a payment plan suitable for them to withdraw a case. This can be on the condition that the out of court settlement is paid in say 3 months.
I think they will be quick on their reply as is voluntary for them to accept or deny.
In the meantime prepare for court. Once you get your SJP notice, you can enter into a payment plan, but only if you take the fine and plead guilty. Be prepared here with your financial information. Court form MC100 can help prepare you for the information you need to give.
You can then ask the court fines officer for a payment plan, deduction from benefits/salary etc. it’s important to keep up with these payments as you can be sent to prison if the court can prove either refusal to pay or culpable neglect (burying one’s head).
I think they will be quick on their reply as is voluntary for them to accept or deny.
In the meantime prepare for court. Once you get your SJP notice, you can enter into a payment plan, but only if you take the fine and plead guilty. Be prepared here with your financial information. Court form MC100 can help prepare you for the information you need to give.
You can then ask the court fines officer for a payment plan, deduction from benefits/salary etc. it’s important to keep up with these payments as you can be sent to prison if the court can prove either refusal to pay or culpable neglect (burying one’s head).
If only the one journey is prosecuted (and I agree this is likely) then AIUI the compensation element will be small and the total well short of £3k.
minderbinder
Member
Just a friendly note, @olivia16c, that you have left the reference number visible on the letter. You might prefer to crop that out.