I really messed up and i’m panicking (fare evasion)

[rubixcube]

Hi there, this happened today and I’m really panicking a lot. I tampered with my old 16-25 rail card expiry as I had to make an emergency trip from Hull to Bristol and i didn’t have quite enough to pay for the full fare comfortably.

I used Hull trains direct from Hull to King’s cross on an open return. And then from Paddington to Bristol temple meads on an open return using Great western railways (GWR).

I was caught on the return GWR from Bristol to Paddington. The conductor was rather gentle with me and quietly explained that what I had done could constitute as fraud and I agreed to do an interview. I honestly explained the following details:
C: “Are you aware that the railcard is invalid?”
M: “Yes I am”
C: “How did you manage to do it?”
M: “A friend helped me change the date”
C: “Have you done this before?”
M: “Yes, just to get to Bristol from Hull”
C: “Please state your details”
M: “ ~all my details requested~”
C: “We shall be sending a letter after informing the FTB (sorry if this is the wrong acronym I forgot the insinuation) and proceedings will be stated from there. you have 10 days to reply and all compliance is appreciated to speed the process ahead and avoid escalation”
M: “Okay thank you for that”
C: “Thank you for your compliance”
M: “Yet again really sorry about this and thanks for the understanding”

It’s a really stupid thing for me to do and i’m at least calmer by my quick admission but also I’m scared that it might make this whole situation worse”

I’m a 19 year old girl who’s moved far away from home and I really didn’t take into account that cutting corners like this can really bite you in the A**. Is there any advice anyone could give for this situation?

Some say the letter comes in a month and others say it’s even longer so i’m just getting a bit paranoid about the time scales.

Also are the chances of private settlement high or are solicitors necessary for that?

 

[ikcdab]

Welcome to the forum. You have come to the right place for help.
Be assured that your calm and truthful approach will have helped, not worsened tnt situation.
GWR have up to 6 months to write to you. The timescales vary hugely and it is impossible to say exactly when you will get the letter. For now you just need to make sure you have access to the post. If you are changing addresses then you must set up a redirection.
When you get the letter, you will be asked to state your case. When you get it, come back here and you will be helped with the wording.
GWR are usually open to out of court settlements, although we cannot predict what will happen here.
You do not need a solicitor at this stage, especially if this is the only time you have used the tampered card.
If an out of court settlement is offered, then expect it to be the anytime single rate for both journeys plus about £150 admin fee. So you might want to start saving for that as you usually don't get long to pay
GWR will check your ticket history to see if it looks as if you have done this previously. Are you sure you this is the only journey you have done with the tampered Railcard?

 

[rubixcube]

Welcome to the forum. You have come to the right place for help.
Be assured that your calm and truthful approach will have helped, not worsened tnt situation.
GWR have up to 6 months to write to you. The timescales vary hugely and it is impossible to say exactly when you will get the letter. For now you just need to make sure you have access to the post. If you are changing addresses then you must set up a redirection.
When you get the letter, you will be asked to state your case. When you get it, come back here and you will be helped with the wording.
GWR are usually open to out of court settlements, although we cannot predict what will happen here.
You do not need a solicitor at this stage, especially if this is the only time you have used the tampered card.
If an out of court settlement is offered, then expect it to be the anytime single rate for both journeys plus about £150 admin fee. So you might want to start saving for that as you usually don't get long to pay
GWR will check your ticket history to see if it looks as if you have done this previously. Are you sure you this is the only journey you have done with the tampered Railcard?

My niece needs me to buy tickets (as I have a point system on my credit card) regularly from Hull to London to see her dad and she has a valid 16-17 rail card. Should I explain this when they check my history and also send her railcard? I bought me and her a ticket where I traveled using a single full price adult and her 16-17 railcard.

Other than those I have not used rail cards for any of my other ticket purchases

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi there, this happened today and I’m really panicking a lot. I tampered with my old 16-25 rail card expiry as I had to make an emergency trip from Hull to Bristol and i didn’t have quite enough to pay for the full fare comfortably.

I used Hull trains direct from Hull to King’s cross on an open return. And then from Paddington to Bristol temple meads on an open return using Great western railways (GWR).

I was caught on the return GWR from Bristol to Paddington. The conductor was rather gentle with me and quietly explained that what I had done could constitute as fraud and I agreed to do an interview. I honestly explained the following details:
C: “Are you aware that the railcard is invalid?”
M: “Yes I am”
C: “How did you manage to do it?”
M: “A friend helped me change the date”
C: “Have you done this before?”
M: “Yes, just to get to Bristol from Hull”
C: “Please state your details”
M: “ ~all my details requested~”
C: “We shall be sending a letter after informing the FTB (sorry if this is the wrong acronym I forgot the insinuation) and proceedings will be stated from there. you have 10 days to reply and all compliance is appreciated to speed the process ahead and avoid escalation”
M: “Okay thank you for that”
C: “Thank you for your compliance”
M: “Yet again really sorry about this and thanks for the understanding”

It’s a really stupid thing for me to do and i’m at least calmer by my quick admission but also I’m scared that it might make this whole situation worse”

I’m a 19 year old girl who’s moved far away from home and I really didn’t take into account that cutting corners like this can really bite you in the A**. Is there any advice anyone could give for this situation?

Some say the letter comes in a month and others say it’s even longer so i’m just getting a bit paranoid about the time scales.

Also are the chances of private settlement high or are solicitors necessary for that?

Firstly - you will get good advice on here as to what to do at each step of the process to get the 'least worst' outcome from here on - but the vital thing is indeed that you get and respond to the formal letter they will send you. As a student if you gave them a term time address that you may move from you need to take steps to access that post (potentially for some months into the future). If you gave your family address it is vital they know to look out for post to you - you often only get a week or 2 to reply. No reply means escalation to court as they think you are ignoring them.

Secondly - if you are a student you may be able to get free legal advice or help via your student union or university advice Centre. You could contact them now to find out if that is offered in any way.

Thirdly - have a look at the GWR Revenue Protection pdf policy document on their website - this will help you get an idea of how they will deal with things.

Fourthly - something you can do that shows you will not do this again (which helps you persuade them you have learned your lesson) is buy a legitimate Railcard for yourself - I would do this now / soon. It is something you can say in your favour when you are responding to them.

Obviously ask any questions that occur to you here as people will explain things.

My niece needs me to buy tickets (as I have a point system on my credit card) regularly from Hull to London to see her dad and she has a valid 16-17 rail card. Should I explain this when they check my history and also send her railcard? I bought me and her a ticket where I traveled using a single full price adult and her 16-17 railcard.

Other than those I have not used rail cards for any of my other ticket purchases

Not unless they ask you about other travel, in which case you may need to do that. But for now keep copies and records of her Railcard and start listing out the dates and journeys you bought her tickets so you have a decent set of records. Don't list them here but keep them in case you need to show this info to GWR in due course.

 

[rubixcube]

Firstly - you will get good advice on here as to what to do at each step of the process to get the 'least worst' outcome from here on - but the vital thing is indeed that you get and respond to the formal letter they will send you. As a student if you gave them a term time address that you may move from you need to take steps to access that post (potentially for some months into the future). If you gave your family address it is vital they know to look out for post to you - you often only get a week or 2 to reply. No reply means escalation to court as they think you are ignoring them.

Thanks for that! I’m easing up a lot more now and feel more level headed. I’ll be checking my mail regularly!

Thirdly - have a look at the GWR Revenue Protection pdf policy document on their website - this will help you get an idea of how they will deal with things.

I’ll do that now!! I also need to check Hull trains as well

Fourthly - something you can do that shows you will not do this again (which helps you persuade them you have learned your lesson) is buy a legitimate Railcard for yourself - I would do this now / soon. It is something you can say in your favour when you are responding to them.

I’ve just managed to do this now so I can avoid making the same mistakes!

 

[WesternLancer]

Thanks for that! I’m easing up a lot more now and feel more level headed. I’ll be checking my mail regularly!

I’ll do that now!! I also need to check Hull trains as well

I’ve just managed to do this now so I can avoid making the same mistakes!

I think you will be dealing with GWR if it was them who stopped and noted the infringement - I think they will deal with it in respect of any operators your ticket covered under reciprocal arrangements between train companies.

 

[Hadders]

You will be dealing with GWR over this not Hull Trains, although both GWR and Hull Trains are part of First Group so will probably have siilar policies when it comes to this sort of thing.

 

[rubixcube]

I think you will be dealing with GWR if it was them who stopped and noted the infringement - I think they will deal with it in respect of any operators your ticket covered under reciprocal arrangements between train companies.

Okay that’s good but hopefully communication isn’t too annoying for them!

Was feeling a little paranoid all of today and decided to start drafting my response to make sure I don’t miss out any details from yesterday. If anyone would happily check to see if it would be suitable and if there are any amendments I should make.


Dear Sir/Madam



I’m writing to firstly, sincerely apologise for my actions and to also clarify the events of 28/05/24. I greatly appreciate your staff member (FG—) for their conduct with me and allowing me to fully understand the severity of my actions. Being unable to provide a valid railcard pass and ticket has no excuse and it was a large lapse of judgment and immaturity on my part, that I take full responsibility for and truly do regret.



I made 2 trips to and from Bristol without taking the responsibility of budgeting, I wrongly allowed myself to use a false railcard date which completely undermines the railway byelaws that I was informed about during the interview with FG—. There is no excuse for my actions and I should have taken into account the effect that fare evasion in any instance has on the railway industry and taxpayers as well.



On the return journey from Bristol temple Meads to London Paddington, GWR representative FG— scanned my ticket and old railcard and I was notified on what my actions were and given the opportunity to answer questions within the interview procedure. I answered all the questions truthfully to the best of my ability and complied fully with staff.



To ensure I do not put myself in a position to cause further inconvenience to your companies and staff, I have renewed my 16-25 Railcard (No. —) and I would be extremely grateful if you would consider allowing me to mitigate my outstanding fares through an out of court settlement that all parties affected deem fit.



This situation has been great in ensuring I truly consider the actions I take and to hold myself accountable from now onwards. I’m yet again thankful for staff member’s ability to walk me through your procedure calmly, allowing me the opportunity to explain my actions and offer my sincerest apologies.



Kind regards,

 

[AlbertBeale]

Okay that’s good but hopefully communication isn’t too annoying for them!

Was feeling a little paranoid all of today and decided to start drafting my response to make sure I don’t miss out any details from yesterday. If anyone would happily check to see if it would be suitable and if there are any amendments I should make.


Dear Sir/Madam



I’m writing to firstly, sincerely apologise for my actions and to also clarify the events of 28/05/24. I greatly appreciate your staff member (FG—) for their conduct with me and allowing me to fully understand the severity of my actions. Being unable to provide a valid railcard pass and ticket has no excuse and it was a large lapse of judgment and immaturity on my part, that I take full responsibility for and truly do regret.



I made 2 trips to and from Bristol without taking the responsibility of budgeting, I wrongly allowed myself to use a false railcard date which completely undermines the railway byelaws that I was informed about during the interview with FG—. There is no excuse for my actions and I should have taken into account the effect that fare evasion in any instance has on the railway industry and taxpayers as well.



On the return journey from Bristol temple Meads to London Paddington, GWR representative FG— scanned my ticket and old railcard and I was notified on what my actions were and given the opportunity to answer questions within the interview procedure. I answered all the questions truthfully to the best of my ability and complied fully with staff.



To ensure I do not put myself in a position to cause further inconvenience to your companies and staff, I have renewed my 16-25 Railcard (No. —) and I would be extremely grateful if you would consider allowing me to mitigate my outstanding fares through an out of court settlement that all parties affected deem fit.



This situation has been great in ensuring I truly consider the actions I take and to hold myself accountable from now onwards. I’m yet again thankful for staff member’s ability to walk me through your procedure calmly, allowing me the opportunity to explain my actions and offer my sincerest apologies.



Kind regards,

To me, it seems a bit over-grovelling and obsequious - if you overdo it it sounds insincere. A bit of humanity, as well as being business-like, is good; but personally this reads a bit too over-the-top to me. But other views might differ...

However, it anyway seems pointless to go too far down the road of drafting a reply now, since you don't yet have the letter you'll be replying to! Once you know what they say, you'll be better able to answer what they ask about.

 

[randyrippley]

==snip==

I made 2 trips to and from Bristol ..........................

that makes it sound as if you've made TWO return trips using the invalid card, which isn't what you said in the original post.
When you get to write the letter you need to be clear as to what happened, and how many times

 

[rubixcube]

To me, it seems a bit over-grovelling and obsequious - if you overdo it it sounds insincere. A bit of humanity, as well as being business-like, is good; but personally this reads a bit too over-the-top to me. But other views might differ...

However, it anyway seems pointless to go too far down the road of drafting a reply now, since you don't yet have the letter you'll be replying to! Once you know what they say, you'll be better able to answer what they ask about.

Thanks for the input! It was written at a stressed moment and I get where you’re coming from about it feeling rather timid and insincere to some.

I’m really trying to wait it out and it’s just the initial paranoia i’ll get over