Improving rail links to Watford

[Mgameing123]

Not unless the DfT tells them they can. They still don't have a replacement for what they have got, let alone anything additional.

Yeah true. But I don't think it's possible to get additional S stock trains.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

And honestly I can see why the Met north of Harrow on the Hill is uneconomical. The section isn't well used off peak as most people take the Chiltern train and Watford Met is in a terrible location so your better off catching the bus.

I don't know from where you got that idea but it's very far from the truth. First, the Chiltern trains do not stop at many of the stations, e.g. Moor Park.
Second, even from the stations north of Moor Park most passengers use the Metropolitan trains.

 

[A S Leib]

Second, even from the stations north of Moor Park most passengers use the Metropolitan trains

Yes, as in Rickmansworth, Chorleywood and C&L's cases they're twice as frequent, there's a better chance of getting a seat going into London, and there's no need to change for the City.

 

[stuu]

And honestly I can see why the Met north of Harrow on the Hill is uneconomical.

The stations south of Moor Park all get well over a million passengers a year, Pinner had 2.2m in 2023, which puts it around Swansea or Aberdeen if it were an NR station. It just seems quiet as the trains are long and frequent, although clearly usage will be weighted to the peak. But so are most suburban services

 

[Mgameing123]

I don't know from where you got that idea but it's very far from the truth. First, the Chiltern trains do not stop at many of the stations, e.g. Moor Park.
Second, even from the stations north of Moor Park most passengers use the Metropolitan trains.

Where do you get this information from. Is this after Chiltern reduced the off peak service? Because I remember back when I would wait at Amersham for the Met train then most people would get on the fast Chiltern train so I would basically have the Met Line train for myself.

 

[cle]

Yes, as in Rickmansworth, Chorleywood and C&L's cases they're twice as frequent, there's a better chance of getting a seat going into London, and there's no need to change for the City.

Crucially, they can (and do) change at Finchley Road and get to far more places easily. And there isn't really a time penalty re the non-stop run to Baker St vs Jubilee stations.

The Aylesbury service is needed of course - but ultimately more Met services (after SSL resignal) might enable Chiltern to run fast Harrow-Amersham in standard pattern.

 

[Mgameing123]

Crucially, they can (and do) change at Finchley Road and get to far more places easily. And there isn't really a time penalty re the non-stop run to Baker St vs Jubilee stations.

The Aylesbury service is needed of course - but ultimately more Met services (after SSL resignal) might enable Chiltern to run fast Harrow-Amersham in standard pattern.

I don't think skipping Rickmansworth or Chalfont & Latimer is a good idea. Atleast stop at Moor Park for the Watford Branch.

 

[A S Leib]

Crucially, they can (and do) change at Finchley Road and get to far more places easil

Agreed. If I were starting from scratch or had an unlimited budget, I'd add Chiltern platforms at West Hampstead (and have some EMR services call there, especially as if I'm in this dream scenario HS2 East is being built) so that role could be provided there, but for now it's Finchley Road.

I suspect cross-platform interchange at Finchley Road and Baker Street might be faster, or at least with fewer stairs, than just changing to the Bakerloo at Baker Street as well, and whilst I don't think Met to Mildmay / North London line is a massive flow, it's another one not easily provided by Chiltern.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Agreed. If I were starting from scratch or had an unlimited budget, I'd add Chiltern platforms at West Hampstead (and have some EMR services call there, especially as if I'm in this dream scenario HS2 East is being built) so that role could be provided there, but for now it's Finchley Road.

I'm pretty sure that was being planned maybe 10 years ago under the West Hampstead Interchange scheme, with West Hampstead to replace Finchley Road as the place that Met trains stopped at as well as adding Chiltern platforms there and turning the road between the three West Hampstead stations into a pedestrian area to facilitate interchange. But I think it ended up getting dropped for lack of money, and on a quick Google I can't find any firm reference to the plans.

 

[Bald Rick]

I'm pretty sure that was being planned maybe 10 years ago under the West Hampstead Interchange scheme, with West Hampstead to replace Finchley Road as the place that Met trains stopped at as well as adding Chiltern platforms there and turning the road between the three West Hampstead stations into a pedestrian area to facilitate interchange. But I think it ended up getting dropped for lack of money, and on a quick Google I can't find any firm reference to the plans.

I’ve never seen any serious plans for such a proposal. It would be very difficult.

 

[stuu]

I'm pretty sure that was being planned maybe 10 years ago under the West Hampstead Interchange scheme, with West Hampstead to replace Finchley Road as the place that Met trains stopped at as well as adding Chiltern platforms there and turning the road between the three West Hampstead stations into a pedestrian area to facilitate interchange. But I think it ended up getting dropped for lack of money, and on a quick Google I can't find any firm reference to the plans.

More like 20 years ago.. fairly sure the plan was only Chiltern line platforms, not the Met as well, as it was Chiltern's idea when they were still expansionist. It definitely got as far as an official website with vague plans and IIRC an artist's impression. Would have needed some demolition and some new flats to pay for it so would probably have had a fair bit of opposition, especially as it doesn't offer very much to locals

 

[Railwaysceptic]

Where do you get this information from. Is this after Chiltern reduced the off peak service? Because I remember back when I would wait at Amersham for the Met train then most people would get on the fast Chiltern train so I would basically have the Met Line train for myself.

I got this information from using both the service and my powers of observation!

 

[cle]

The Jubille platforms are rather wide but I think you’d be looking at a staggered set of platforms north/west of the Jubilee ones, if anything.

Shibuya style! (Being changed to align…)