Increasingly sad state of London Underground trains - graffiti and disrepair

[Thirteen]

Seems rather too coincidental that it's mainly affecting the Bakerloo, Central and Piccadilly lines - which just happen to be the fleets with trains out of use for modifications/refurb/heavy maintenance - certainly with the latter two attracting threads on here regarding the reduced levels of service due to trains being out of use. I expect keeping mechanically sound trains in service is taking priority over cosmetic issues. No, it doesn't look good, but it's hard to argue that even fewer trains in service is the better option.

Also the trains with no CCTV coverage.

 

[stuu]

TfL bet the house on the unwanted Silvertown Tunnel which will now cost £4 to use each way...

The Silvertown Tunnel has cost TfL ~£200m over 6 years or so, which in the context of £10bn budget every year is nothing - how is that betting the house?

 

[Wolfie]

Seems rather too coincidental that it's mainly affecting the Bakerloo, Central and Piccadilly lines - which just happen to be the fleets with trains out of use for modifications/refurb/heavy maintenance - certainly with the latter two attracting threads on here regarding the reduced levels of service due to trains being out of use. I expect keeping mechanically sound trains in service is taking priority over cosmetic issues. No, it doesn't look good, but it's hard to argue that even fewer trains in service is the better option.

This sounds highly likely. A graffitied train is far from ideal better than no train. Watch the moans really start if graffitied trains were withdrawn from service in those circumstances.

Sometimes the graffiti on a Bakerloo line though is a vibe and interesting to look at

It really is not.

Can’t agree. I suspect the majority of people take the view that it gives the impression that London is a lawless dump of a city.

TFL need to get on top of this scourge.

Absolutely.

 

[Mikey C]

If the Evening Standard still existed as a daily paper, I imagine they'd be hammering TfL and the Mayor over this.

 

[Taunton]

The Silvertown Tunnel has cost TfL ~£200m over 6 years or so, which in the context of £10bn budget every year is nothing - how is that betting the house?

The Silvertown Tunnel is a freelance concession, given by TfL to a commercial joint venture, in exchange for building the tunnel they get to keep the tolls. Same arrangement as how the Dartford Bridge got built.

 

[Gostav]

Sometimes the graffiti on a Bakerloo line though is a vibe and interesting to look at

Until someone draws a Nazi symbol or genitals, things aren't that interesting anymore. These groups are too uncontrollable, and some use spray has caustic or highly harmful ingredients - some famous graffiti artists have died young as a result of this - and can also pose a health hazard to passengers.

 

[Recessio]

Until someone draws a Nazi symbol or genitals, things aren't that interesting anymore. These groups are too uncontrollable, and some use spray has caustic or highly harmful ingredients - some famous graffiti artists have died young as a result of this - and can also pose a health hazard to passengers.

I have noticed some of the graffiti appears to be acid etched onto windows, or scratched into surfaces. Presumably this is much harder to repair than "just" cleaning or repainting a surface.

 

[Russel]

Getting to the point that I can't remember the last Central Line train I got that wasn't covered in graffiti.

Pleasantly surprised to see the Norther Line stock seems to be looking cleaner, externally, recently though. Internally, they aren't too bad either, despite the disgusting moquette.

 

[Mawkie]

I have noticed some of the graffiti appears to be acid etched onto windows, or scratched into surfaces. Presumably this is much harder to repair than "just" cleaning or repainting a surface.

I took some snaps today to illustrate the acid graffiti. Very difficult to make this look good at a reasonable cost.

(Photo shows peeling and bubbling paint from acid damage on a 73 Stock)

(Photo shows acid damage running down the side of a 73 Stock)

 

[Russel]

I took some snaps today to illustrate the acid graffiti. Very difficult to make this look good at a reasonable cost.
View attachment 178606
(Photo shows peeling and bubbling paint from acid damage on a 73 Stock)
View attachment 178607
(Photo shows acid damage running down the side of a 73 Stock)

I understand that acid damage is difficult to rectify, but the internal spray paint/pen graffiti that the 72 and 92 stock are covered in can't be anywhere near as difficult to remove...

It's as if TFL haven't heard of the broken window theory.

 

[Silent]

I took some snaps today to illustrate the acid graffiti. Very difficult to make this look good at a reasonable cost.
View attachment 178606
(Photo shows peeling and bubbling paint from acid damage on a 73 Stock)
View attachment 178607
(Photo shows acid damage running down the side of a 73 Stock)

Wow that’s bad

 

[Gostav]

If these people smear similar substances on the inside of the stock, it may pose a serious problem to passengers. For example, if someone curiously touches the graffiti with their fingers, the closed environment inside the stock also makes it difficult for the chemicals to evaporate completely.

 

[Mikey C]

The chemical nature of graffiti hasn't changed in the last 2 years, so there's no excuse for the deterioration of the appearance of certain classes of train.

 

[thomalex]

Watching the recent Geoff Marshall video on the new Tyne and Wear Metro trains this looks to be great initiative to add some personality to interiors but also avoid a large white space which attracts graffiti. They've commissioned a number of different wraps from local artists which reflect the region.

This is something TfL could very cheaply do, hey you could even have them sponsored, and removes your graffiti problem instantly. If someone is determined to tag it then you can whack another one on and not have to spend money and time cleaning. The only other problem spot then seems to be on the white space on the doors, and of course exteriors but really this is something that needs to be tackled with BTP, especially when it comes to tagging with acid.

Something like this would really help lift the interiors of the Bakerloo and Central lines particularly and present a much more welcoming environment.

Screenshot above is from the video here

which is worth a watch.

 

[Russel]

View attachment 178646

Watching the recent Geoff Marshall video on the new Tyne and Wear Metro trains this looks to be great initiative to add some personality to interiors but also avoid a large white space which attracts graffiti. They've commissioned a number of different wraps from local artists which reflect the region.

This is something TfL could very cheaply do, hey you could even have them sponsored, and removes your graffiti problem instantly. If someone is determined to tag it then you can whack another one on and not have to spend money and time cleaning. The only other problem spot then seems to be on the white space on the doors, and of course exteriors but really this is something that needs to be tackled with BTP, especially when it comes to tagging with acid.

Something like this would really help lift the interiors of the Bakerloo and Central lines particularly and present a much more welcoming environment.

Screenshot above is from the video here

which is worth a watch.

That's a nice idea actually, I like it.

Sort of like how TPE have fitted fake wood vinyl to the bulkheads on the 185 or how Northern have painted them blue, it really adds character.

 

[Silent]

Actually

View attachment 178646

Watching the recent Geoff Marshall video on the new Tyne and Wear Metro trains this looks to be great initiative to add some personality to interiors but also avoid a large white space which attracts graffiti. They've commissioned a number of different wraps from local artists which reflect the region.

This is something TfL could very cheaply do, hey you could even have them sponsored, and removes your graffiti problem instantly. If someone is determined to tag it then you can whack another one on and not have to spend money and time cleaning. The only other problem spot then seems to be on the white space on the doors, and of course exteriors but really this is something that needs to be tackled with BTP, especially when it comes to tagging with acid.

Something like this would really help lift the interiors of the Bakerloo and Central lines particularly and present a much more welcoming environment.

Screenshot above is from the video here

which is worth a watch.

reminds me of NSE interiors I remember as a kid on some trains but the art on this is better

 

[73Stock]

Similar to aircraft bulkheads.

 

[vuzzeho]

Sometimes the graffiti on a Bakerloo line though is a vibe and interesting to look at

Unpopular opinion but I don't hate graffiti. It can be nice - people love Banksy, and that's graffiti. (I actually hate his work but that's not because it's graffiti) However, the tagging on the Tubes aren't really a vibe or interesting to look at. It's just nasty, and isn't art. It doesn't add anything or even look nice.

 

[Silent]

I will disagree with some graffiti on trains but yeah it’s better when they don’t have graffiti.

 

[Thirteen]

The acid corrosion is worse than tagging and it's not something you can clean off like graffiti.

 

[73Stock]

It's started on the inside of the Picc line carriages as well now.

 

[Recessio]

It's started on the inside of the Picc line carriages as well now.

Do Picadilly line carriages have CCTV? I notice at the moment it mostly targets lines without train CCTV. Pretty brazen if they're moving up to other lines

 

[Silent]

Nope ^ I wouldn’t think so.

 

[simonw]

Having just come back from London I was shocked just how bad some of the Bakerloo lines were, full of gravity and the lights that were flickering on and enough on the approach to E&C didn't inspire confidence!

They have to be full of gravity to stop the passengers floating away.

 

[Recessio]

Nope ^ I wouldn’t think so.

That might explain it then. Much harder to catch the culprits unless they are caught in the act.

 

[Mawkie]

That might explain it then. Much harder to catch the culprits unless they are caught in the act.

Definitely no CCTV on 73 stock.

However, I frequently see groups/gangs of youths who get out of one carriage and move to the neighbouring carriage each time I stop late at night. I know they're looking for drunk passengers to rob as they walk through the entire length of the train, as the Supervisor at Cockfosters tells me how many people can't exit the gateline because their wallet/phone has been stolen. I've given up reporting it as nothing ever happens.

Add that to smoking weed behind my cab door, smoking crack on platforms, fighting, drinking, vaping, sexual assaults, and of course graffiti. You don't always need CCTV, I see it and report it, but there simply aren't enough BTP resources to deal with anything but the absolute most serious crimes.

Edited: week to weed!

 

[ScottGallagher]

Definitely no CCTV on 73 stock.

However, I frequently see groups/gangs of youths who get out of one carriage and move to the neighbouring carriage each time I stop late at night. I know they're looking for drunk passengers to rob as they walk through the entire length of the train, as the Supervisor at Cockfosters tells me how many people can't exit the gateline because their wallet/phone has been stolen. I've given up reporting it as nothing ever happens.

Add that to smoking week behind my cab door, smoking crack on platforms, fighting, drinking, vaping, sexual assaults, and of course graffiti. You don't always need CCTV, I see it and report it, but there simply aren't enough BTP resources to deal with anything but the absolute most serious crimes.

Is that a frequent occurance regarding the robbing? As you mention Cockfosters I'll guess the hot-spot where they get on and off is Finsbury Park or maybe Holloway Road to Bounds Green?

 

[bramling]

Is that a frequent occurance regarding the robbing? As you mention Cockfosters I'll guess the hot-spot where they get on and off is Finsbury Park or maybe Holloway Road to Bounds Green?

Dunno about the Picc Line but it certainly happens on the High Barnet branch, especially during night Tube.

 

[RacsoMoquette]

Definitely no CCTV on 73 stock.

However, I frequently see groups/gangs of youths who get out of one carriage and move to the neighbouring carriage each time I stop late at night. I know they're looking for drunk passengers to rob as they walk through the entire length of the train, as the Supervisor at Cockfosters tells me how many people can't exit the gateline because their wallet/phone has been stolen. I've given up reporting it as nothing ever happens.

Add that to smoking week behind my cab door, smoking crack on platforms, fighting, drinking, vaping, sexual assaults, and of course graffiti. You don't always need CCTV, I see it and report it, but there simply aren't enough BTP resources to deal with anything but the absolute most serious crimes.

The whole Vaping epidemic on the tube is beyond a joke now! I was in London a few days ago, and rode the Piccadilly, Bakerloo, Central, Northern and Elizabeth Line. The graffiti on the Central and Bakerloo is ever worsening, though I did see that graffiti-proof shiny adhesive material has been applied to the 1992TS window surround areas, which seem to be heavily targeted by the taggers! I travelled on the Bakerloo from Kenton to Baker Street, and saw gangs of board youths board from Stonebridge Park onwards. Merrily vaping their lungs out, despite the service being relatively busy from Wembley Central onwards! One wondered what the parents with pushchairs at either side of their seats thought.

Again on the Central Line from Debden to Epping, gangs of undesirable youths about a carriage from mine, were acting suspiciously alighting and boarding randomly, and had what suspiciously looked like thick marker pens in their hands! On the Elizabeth Line despite it being a very busy service, more youths vaped away and were also playing terribly inappropriate loud music from their phones. Obviously completely oblivious to the wishes of their fellow customers. The Northern Line was just grimy, though the was no evident vandalism in the train I rode. Infact the Piccadilly Line, which I rode quite a long time from Holborn to Uxbridge, was undoubtly the the cleanest line I rode. Despite the age of the 1973TS they have been kept in remarkably good nick throughout their latter life.

 

[Wolfie]

The whole Vaping epidemic on the tube is beyond a joke now! I was in London a few days ago, and rode the Piccadilly, Bakerloo, Central, Northern and Elizabeth Line. The graffiti on the Central and Bakerloo is ever worsening, though I did see that graffiti-proof shiny adhesive material has been applied to the 1992TS window surround areas, which seem to be heavily targeted by the taggers! I travelled on the Bakerloo from Kenton to Baker Street, and saw gangs of board youths board from Stonebridge Park onwards. Merrily vaping their lungs out, despite the service being relatively busy from Wembley Central onwards! One wondered what the parents with pushchairs at either side of their seats thought.

Again on the Central Line from Debden to Epping, gangs of undesirable youths about a carriage from mine, were acting suspiciously alighting and boarding randomly, and had what suspiciously looked like thick marker pens in their hands! On the Elizabeth Line despite it being a very busy service, more youths vaped away and were also playing terribly inappropriate loud music from their phones. Obviously completely oblivious to the wishes of their fellow customers. The Northern Line was just grimy, though the was no evident vandalism in the train I rode. Infact the Piccadilly Line, which I rode quite a long time from Holborn to Uxbridge, was undoubtly the the cleanest line I rode. Despite the age of the 1973TS they have been kept in remarkably good nick throughout their latter life.

There needs to be a frankly Draconian crackdown on this plus the fare dodging pandemic.