Information for GTR Southern passengers during strike (no DOO discussion)

[hwl]

Quite, and if one removes the words "during the strike", this also applies! There was a RRB at Dorking today at 0735, presumably for any 455-operated workings. It's obviously beyond the wit of man to re-roster some workings to ensure 377s operate all the Horsham line service and 455s move to the suburbs to join the rest of the fleet there - at least then people would know a train, not a bus (i.e. no bikes, heavy luggage, buggies, etc) awaited them.

But then you end up with 8 car instead of 10car on DOO metro routes which will be even more crowed than normal due to the strikes. The Dorking 8car 455probably interwork with London Bridge via Tulse Hill services so anything more than n 8car 455 is waste.

 

[Deepgreen]

But then you end up with 8 car instead of 10car on DOO metro routes which will be even more crowed than normal due to the strikes. The Dorking 8car 455probably interwork with London Bridge via Tulse Hill services so anything more than n 8car 455 is waste.

True - no perfect solution. I just feel the mixture of train and bus modes is a mess that leaves people confused.

BTW, every single one of the information screens in the ticket hall at Dorking this morning blasted out a message about Industrial Action, with not one showing actual train information at all! Surely only one screen could have been devoted to this instead of a whole wall of repeated messages?! It makes me despair about who actually thinks this is a suitable way to prioritise information.

 

[BestWestern]

True - no perfect solution. I just feel the mixture of train and bus modes is a mess that leaves people confused.

BTW, every single one of the information screens in the ticket hall at Dorking this morning blasted out a message about Industrial Action, with not one showing actual train information at all! Surely only one screen could have been devoted to this instead of a whole wall of repeated messages?! It makes me despair about who actually thinks this is a suitable way to prioritise information.

The DfT/Connex Charlie/GTR have far more interest in their propaganda campaign at the moment than they have in their customers. To them, what you describe is the optimal situation. All available resources dedicated to the smear campaign. Who cares about the train service, the worse it gets the more the public will hate those pesky ex-Conductors. Or so they think.

 

[GodAtum]

really struggling to get to work. Was unable to squeeze onto the 0736, 0747, 0756 from ECR. finally managed to push my way onto the 0807!

 

[Deepgreen]

really struggling to get to work. Was unable to squeeze onto the 0736, 0747, 0756 from ECR. finally managed to push my way onto the 0807!

Have you made it in yet?!
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On the subject of information for passengers, I see that the old (-er) platform train indicators at Blackfriars TL have been replaced, and the new signs no longer carry the information on the location of the first class on trains. With 387/1s still in service in large numbers, having their first class at one end only, this was a useful feature. Why has it been removed?

More 'first world' problems to follow in due course!

 

[infobleep]

There's a strike on so what better than then making the 17.09 London Victoria to Brighton 8 coaches instead of 12. I don't know if it usually 8 coaches but there must be some spare coaches lying around, given there is a strike and it's these coaching models that would no doubt be the ones most likely to be lying around. To be fair I think everyone got on board but some had to stand. Perhaps Govia want people standing to make them feel even worse!

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So have GTR announced what percentage of services ran today? Must be higher than 61% as no overrunning engineering works.

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[Carlisle]

first class at one end only, this was a useful feature. Why has it been removed?

More 'first world' problems to follow in due course!

hope the air conditioning delivered the perfect level of ambience during your journey

 

[infobleep]

I am trying to find the percentage of Southern trains that ran yesterday. Is there an easy way to do this? The BBC news reports from yesterday and today don't list any percentage of trains running figures.

I want to compare yesterday to Tuesdays 61%.

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[Deepgreen]

hope the air conditioning delivered the perfect level of ambience during your journey

I would have preferred 0.5C lower, but will let it go!
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Yesterday's information screens at Redhill displayed the repeating message that "services from this station to London will be severely affected" (or very similar - my emboldening). Why just London? It is arguable that, for example, the Reigate and Tonbridge routes were just as badly affected by having no trains, whereas London had at least a regular service. London-centric information again.

 

[infobleep]

I would have preferred 0.5C lower, but will let it go!
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Yesterday's information screens at Redhill displayed the repeating message that "services from this station to London will be severely affected" (or very similar - my emboldening). Why just London? It is arguable that, for example, the Reigate and Tonbridge routes were just as badly affected by having no trains, whereas London had at least a regular service. London-centric information again.

The audio announcements say server disruption to Southern services. None of the quotes on the BBC news report I read, quoted GTR as saying that. They just said 61% services ran. Perhaps they should have just said severe disruption is occurring to Southern services or that 39% of Southern services are not running.

What percentage needs not to run in order for it to be severe?

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[Deepgreen]

The audio announcements say server disruption to Southern services. None of the quotes on the BBC news report I read, quoted GTR as saying that. They just said 61% services ran. Perhaps they should have just said server disruption is occurring to Southern services or that 39% of Southern services are not running.

What percentage needs not to run in order for it to be server?

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I think you mean 'severe' here. My point was that, to say just that London services are reduced ignores the importance at nodes such as Redhill of the 'orbital' routes (and, indeed, the country-bound trains).

 

[Chrisgr31]

On the other hand I was quite impressed to get to Tunbridge Wells on the bus this morning to find the bus service to Haywards Heath was showing on the Departure Screens "Haywards Heath Bus Service Adj Platform 1"

 

[infobleep]

I think you mean 'severe' here. My point was that, to say just that London services are reduced ignores the importance at nodes such as Redhill of the 'orbital' routes (and, indeed, the country-bound trains).

I agree with you and yes I meant severe.

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[Deepgreen]

This week the Redhill service has been essentially a self-contained half-hourly Three Bridges to Victoria one. Every day the morning trains have been badly late with no explanation or a word of apology from any on-train staff. At Redhill, anyone who dares to venture beyond the platform canopies is deemed unworthy of being able to hear any public address announcements that might be made (even if they are of any use), so we don't know what's going on either. Bizarrely, having arrived on the GWR train at 0829, what seemed to be an 8car 377 ECS approached and was signalled through platform 2 rather than the up through road, causing passengers to hope that they might have an extra train! No, though, it sailed through. Very odd to have used the platform road for a non-stop, when the through road was fine, and was used five minutes later by a RHTT. The ECS hasn't appeared on RTT either.

When our London train did eventually arrive (still not a word about delays on the station or on the train) we set off well over 10 late, and then stopped outside Merstham tunnel at what I assume was a signal failure. No announcements even then, or indeed anywhere to London, where we were 18 late.

However, the point here is that information about the service and the repeated delays this week has been lacking, yet again. It simply doesn't seem to occur to the station staff at Redhill to tell people what is going on and thereby head off the numerous irate enquiries that descend upon them!

 

[swt class 450]

It appears that yesterday there has also been a limited additional train service running between Redhill and Tonbridge (presumably using Southeastern Drivers and Guards). This service wasnt very well advertised though. I only found it on the journey check page of the Southern website.

 

[tsr]

This week the Redhill service has been essentially a self-contained half-hourly Three Bridges to Victoria one. Every day the morning trains have been badly late with no explanation or a word of apology from any on-train staff. At Redhill, anyone who dares to venture beyond the platform canopies is deemed unworthy of being able to hear any public address announcements that might be made (even if they are of any use), so we don't know what's going on either. Bizarrely, having arrived on the GWR train at 0829, what seemed to be an 8car 377 ECS approached and was signalled through platform 2 rather than the up through road, causing passengers to hope that they might have an extra train! No, though, it sailed through. Very odd to have used the platform road for a non-stop, when the through road was fine, and was used five minutes later by a RHTT. The ECS hasn't appeared on RTT either.

When our London train did eventually arrive (still not a word about delays on the station or on the train) we set off well over 10 late, and then stopped outside Merstham tunnel at what I assume was a signal failure. No announcements even then, or indeed anywhere to London, where we were 18 late.

However, the point here is that information about the service and the repeated delays this week has been lacking, yet again. It simply doesn't seem to occur to the station staff at Redhill to tell people what is going on and thereby head off the numerous irate enquiries that descend upon them!

There was probably very limited information available to the station staff at Redhill this morning. Looks like NR were scratching their heads about a cable fault which was causing the signalling equipment in the area to behave unpredictably. This is almost certainly the cause of most of the strange delays this morning, the incident starting in the hour or so before you arrived.

As for the train you saw passing through Platform 2, I suggest it may have been reported incorrectly on RTT. You can see there is some mangling of the data regarding when this train reported at Redhill Platform 2, Merstham and Coulsdon South. Maybe the original schedule for 2A91 on the site somehow got mixed up with an ECS - I've no idea really. http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/X39889/2016/10/20/advanced

 

[Bishopstone]

It appears that yesterday there has also been a limited additional train service running between Redhill and Tonbridge (presumably using Southeastern Drivers and Guards). This service wasnt very well advertised though. I only found it on the journey check page of the Southern website.

Additionally, an hourly Brighton-Lewes shuttle has been introduced; a handful of peak services to Seaford and (today) what looks to be an hourly shuttle between Eastbourne and Ore.

With the exception of the withdrawn GatEx trains, which won't return until after leaf-fall in December, it appears everything else withdrawn in July is coming back on or by 1 November. (On non-strike days, that is.)

 

[Deepgreen]

There was probably very limited information available to the station staff at Redhill this morning. Looks like NR were scratching their heads about a cable fault which was causing the signalling equipment in the area to behave unpredictably. This is almost certainly the cause of most of the strange delays this morning, the incident starting in the hour or so before you arrived.

As for the train you saw passing through Platform 2, I suggest it may have been reported incorrectly on RTT. You can see there is some mangling of the data regarding when this train reported at Redhill Platform 2, Merstham and Coulsdon South. Maybe the original schedule for 2A91 on the site somehow got mixed up with an ECS - I've no idea really. http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/X39889/2016/10/20/advanced

The train I saw passing platform 2 had, as far as I could see, only one person in the passenger saloon, at the front, so I must assume it was ECS with a staff member aboard. It approached from Earlswood, not the Tonbridge line. I found it very odd that it was routed via the platform not the through road.

The information provision at Redhill is abysmal as a matter of course, and this morning was pretty much standard. It is very obvious to regular users there that the staff are simply not motivated to inform the public, whether they have the right information available or not. It is also the norm for the p.a. system not to be audible on the open-air sections of platforms, with a faint garbled voice just audible from the distant loudspeakers under the canopies, and for the 'live' announcements that are made to be crackly and prone to intermittent 'drop-outs'.

 

[Robertj21a]

The train I saw passing platform 2 had, as far as I could see, only one person in the passenger saloon, at the front, so I must assume it was ECS with a staff member aboard. It approached from Earlswood, not the Tonbridge line. I found it very odd that it was routed via the platform not the through road.

The information provision at Redhill is abysmal as a matter of course, and this morning was pretty much standard. It is very obvious to regular users there that the staff are simply not motivated to inform the public, whether they have the right information available or not. It is also the norm for the p.a. system not to be audible on the open-air sections of platforms, with a faint garbled voice just audible from the distant loudspeakers under the canopies, and for the 'live' announcements that are made to be crackly and prone to intermittent 'drop-outs'.

Have you complained about the situation at Redhill to the senior management ?

 

[Deepgreen]

Have you complained about the situation at Redhill to the senior management ?

More times than I can remember! Always falls on deaf ears and the same tired old mantra is trotted out - "we know how important good information is to our customers and your concerns have been passed on to the station manager".

Pointless. I have a fair bit of railway operating knowledge and can see round a lot of the mis-information that is provided. I can only imagine how frustrating it is for those who actually rely on what they are told!

 

[infobleep]

There was probably very limited information available to the station staff at Redhill this morning. Looks like NR were scratching their heads about a cable fault which was causing the signalling equipment in the area to behave unpredictably. This is almost certainly the cause of most of the strange delays this morning, the incident starting in the hour or so before you arrived.

As for the train you saw passing through Platform 2, I suggest it may have been reported incorrectly on RTT. You can see there is some mangling of the data regarding when this train reported at Redhill Platform 2, Merstham and Coulsdon South. Maybe the original schedule for 2A91 on the site somehow got mixed up with an ECS - I've no idea really. http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/X39889/2016/10/20/advanced

I have been on trains where the guard announced I don't know what is going on but when I do, I will let you know. Station staff should at least say that.

There is to much of a we don't know so well remain silent attitude. Rather than a we don't know but we'll say that attitude.

I am assuming that they didn't say anything at all. Also the driver of the train could say something like we are experiencing delays and are being held at red signal. Not sure why but if I get more information then I will let you know.

If the driver is too busy then perhaps a guard could do that. Was anyone else on the train bar the driver? I admit it was a strike day.

Just my humble opinion.

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[Deepgreen]

What a shambles of mis-information at East Croydon this evening - old signs dating from the slam-door era still not removed (i.e. 'Do Not board Moving Trains'), which were last valid in 2005! Also lots of signs warning that platforms 1 and 2 are uneven - they're not, as the re-surfacing work done months ago has made them the most even I have ever used. Who manages these things? If I was the manager here I would be walking round frequently to ensure the station was in good order and all redundant items were removed promptly.

Then there's the awful train running information - the 'Next Direct Train To...' screens don't agree with the 'Next Train' screens, and the information on the detailed describers is often wrong - the 1708 to Three Bridges and Reigate was today shown as four coaches - impossible if it was to divide at Redhill, and it was also shown as running at different times on the adjacent screens! This train was getting later and later, and if it was going to be only four coaches it would probably be packed so I abandoned it and went for the 1715 on platform 5. No good there either as the 1711 to MKC was still waiting for a road north and I saw the 1708 arriving as eight coaches! So, another run back to pfm 2 to get the 1708, now at 1716.

With the utter mess of mis-information, it's no wonder that so many passengers have to run back and forth at East Croydon, including the ramps with their pointless 'No Running' signs!

 

[swt class 450]

Additionally, an hourly Brighton-Lewes shuttle has been introduced; a handful of peak services to Seaford and (today) what looks to be an hourly shuttle between Eastbourne and Ore.

With the exception of the withdrawn GatEx trains, which won't return until after leaf-fall in December, it appears everything else withdrawn in July is coming back on or by 1 November. (On non-strike days, that is.)

Its a shame that these services were not advertised better. I imagine that most passengers probably didnt realise that these additional services were running during these strike days.

 

[387star]

What a shambles of mis-information at East Croydon this evening - old signs dating from the slam-door era still not removed (i.e. 'Do Not board Moving Trains'), which were last valid in 2005! Also lots of signs warning that platforms 1 and 2 are uneven - they're not, as the re-surfacing work done months ago has made them the most even I have ever used. Who manages these things? If I was the manager here I would be walking round frequently to ensure the station was in good order and all redundant items were removed promptly.

Then there's the awful train running information - the 'Next Direct Train To...' screens don't agree with the 'Next Train' screens, and the information on the detailed describers is often wrong - the 1708 to Three Bridges and Reigate was today shown as four coaches - impossible if it was to divide at Redhill, and it was also shown as running at different times on the adjacent screens! This train was getting later and later, and if it was going to be only four coaches it would probably be packed so I abandoned it and went for the 1715 on platform 5. No good there either as the 1711 to MKC was still waiting for a road north and I saw the 1708 arriving as eight coaches! So, another run back to pfm 2 to get the 1708, now at 1716.

With the utter mess of mis-information, it's no wonder that so many passengers have to run back and forth at East Croydon, including the ramps with their pointless 'No Running' signs!

Some signs just get forgotton about eg at preston park the sign still says served by first capital connect on the up side pedestrian approach

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Then there's the awful train running information - the 'Next Direct Train To...' screens don't agree with the 'Next Train' screens, and the information on the detailed describers is often wrong

Would the screens be running off of different data feeds?

 

[Surreytraveller]

This service wasnt very well advertised though. I only found it on the journey check page of the Southern website.

They probably don't know what they can run until they know how many staff turn up for work.

 

[TEW]

Some signs just get forgotton about eg at preston park the sign still says served by first capital connect on the up side pedestrian approach

About a year ago there was still a sign outside Redhill proclaiming the station was served by First Great Western Link and southeastern.

 

[Antman]

About a year ago there was still a sign outside Redhill proclaiming the station was served by First Great Western Link and southeastern.

It is still served by FGW to Reading.

 

[74A]

Does anyone know why on strike days they cannot stop stop trains at Earlswood and Salford on the Brighton main line ?

 

[Surreytraveller]

Does anyone know why on strike days they cannot stop stop trains at Earlswood and Salford on the Brighton main line ?

Because a train requires a guard to stop there, and as the guards are on strike the trains running through Earlswood and Salfords are DOO.