Introduce The Hogwarts Express - London Kings Cross to Mallaig

[Gathursty]

Whilst watching Harry Potter the other day, I was thinking is there enough market and paths for a service using heritage stock (doesn't have to be steam but I can understand the nostalgia) for a train to run from London Kings Cross (any platform) to Mallaig via Edinburgh and the ECML?

The Jacobite does exceedingly well but it's really just the end bit of the journey made famous by JK Rowling and is obviously nothing to do with the Hogwarts Express no matter how much people may argue.

 

[TravellingPhil]

A lovely idea. But for something that could be aimed at families, it's an awfully long way. It would have to work hard to keep the kids entertained.

Having said that, thinking about my 6 year old nephew, he'd still be upset that he'd have to get off after 12 hours plus! (His sisters would soon get bored though!)

You can nearly recreate the experience with the Deerstalker...just the wrong terminus and the wrong mainline.

 

[Bald Rick]

The standard charter path off KX is 0816 on Saturday morning, timed for 100mph. It’s roughly 6 hours to Edinburgh, and then would be another 6+ to Mallaig. The steam path would be rather longer.

Even if the stars align and there are perfectly suitable matching paths available from Edinburgh to Glasgow, across Glasgow, up to Helensburgh and then north of Craigendoran Jn all the way to Mallaig, (which I doubt), it’s not going to be less than 12 hours, arriving there at 2030, say, at best. I should imagine that sort of trip wit( kids would be.... interesting

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm sure a charter company would have done it if they thought it would be profitable. Realistically it's just a bit too far.

 

[DPWH]

Well, the going away to school for the first time is a standard trope of boarding school fiction.

Little Harries were packed off on the train, aged 11, to a boarding school far from the big city. One would hope the first time with at least one of their parents, or maybe an older sibling, in tow.

The question is, going back to the 1920s-1950s, if little Harry was sent to a boarding school, which was in some godforsaken castle somewhere around Mallaig, and he lived in London. How could he get there? My guess is the best option would involve either a sleeper or an overnight stay somewhere.

 

[Harpers Tate]

I any case, one might argue such a train's destination ought to be Goathland.......

 

[30907]

Well, the going away to school for the first time is a standard trope of boarding school fiction.

Little Harries were packed off on the train, aged 11, to a boarding school far from the big city. One would hope the first time with at least one of their parents, or maybe an older sibling, in tow.

The question is, going back to the 1920s-1950s, if little Harry was sent to a boarding school, which was in some godforsaken castle somewhere around Mallaig, and he lived in London. How could he get there? My guess is the best option would involve either a sleeper or an overnight stay somewhere.

The overnight train from Kings Cross, sat up all night, without parents but probably with staff escorting. School specials in the UK were typically day trains, though I imagine Gordonstoun was an exception? But there were/are international or "finishing" schools too and at least some of the pupils must have travelled overnight to get there.

 

[30907]

I nay case, one might argue such a train's destination ought to be Goathland.......

Good one - if a path could be found on the Whitby line .

 

[Bald Rick]

The question is, going back to the 1920s-1950s, if little Harry was sent to a boarding school, which was in some godforsaken castle somewhere around Mallaig, and he lived in London. How could he get there? My guess is the best option would involve either a sleeper or an overnight stay somewhere.

A Magical train, surely?

 

[yoyothehobo]

If we are being truly accurate, it has to leave Kings Cross and go to Goathland VIA Mallaig...

 

[YorkshireBear]

If we are being truly accurate, it has to leave Kings Cross and go to Goathland VIA Mallaig...

One hell of a journey!

 

[800002]

The standard charter path off KX is 0816 on Saturday morning, timed for 100mph. It’s roughly 6 hours to Edinburgh, and then would be another 6+ to Mallaig. The steam path would be rather longer.

4 hours 16 minutes from Kings Cross - Newcastle - and timed at 100 mph (with multiple station calls en route).
So. If it's Steam at 75 mph, add at least a quarter of the time (at most) to the 4 hours to Newcastle and take out the station calls that are un-wanted - it might make 5 hours to Newcastle (including water / coaling at York or somewhere similar).

I think i'd take the weasleys' flying car....

 

[Indigo Soup]

If we are being truly accurate, it has to leave Kings Cross and go to Goathland VIA Mallaig...

If we are going by the books, rather than the films, we also need to contrive a routing which includes Norfolk and Peebles, and takes about nine hours. This could be problematic.

 

[yoyothehobo]

If we are going by the books, rather than the films, we also need to contrive a routing which includes Norfolk and Peebles, and takes about nine hours. This could be problematic.

If its going over Peebles, we need to reopen a railway line. This calls for the railforum magic wand of BCR greater than 1 to come out!!!

 

[Gathursty]

If its going over Peebles, we need to reopen a railway line. This calls for the railforum magic wand of BCR greater than 1 to come out!!!

HS2 - Hogwarts Speed 2 / Harry Speed 2?

 

[GrimShady]

Shame the Callander - Oban line was lifted. It would be perfect for stuff like this.

 

[6Gman]

Whilst watching Harry Potter the other day, I was thinking is there enough market and paths for a service using heritage stock (doesn't have to be steam but I can understand the nostalgia) for a train to run from London Kings Cross (any platform) to Mallaig via Edinburgh and the ECML?

No.


..

 

[Ianno87]

The idea *might* work commercially as a one off special done in conjunction with Warner Brothers. E.g. outward trip, special event in Scotland with overnight accommodation, return a couple of days later. Entertainment, stars of Harry Potter on the train, etc.

If done right, it could command a very premium price indeed, strictly as a one-off thing...

 

[duffield]

The idea *might* work commercially as a one off special done in conjunction with Warner Brothers. E.g. outward trip, special event in Scotland with overnight accommodation, return a couple of days later. Entertainment, stars of Harry Potter on the train, etc.

If done right, it could command a very premium price indeed, strictly as a one-off thing...

Actually I would think you could sell out several such trains, not just one.

 

[Indigo Soup]

Actually I would think you could sell out several such trains, not just one.

That would depend very much on the price - and it wouldn't be cheap. I'd think it would have to be a Harry Potter convention on rails, targeted at adult fans of the franchise. You could probably run it once a year (leaving on the 1st of September, no doubt) but more than that would probably be pushing it.

 

[DPWH]

The overnight train from Kings Cross, sat up all night, without parents but probably with staff escorting. School specials in the UK were typically day trains, though I imagine Gordonstoun was an exception? But there were/are international or "finishing" schools too and at least some of the pupils must have travelled overnight to get there.

On reflection I realise the stupidity of my question given the general lack of public schools in the Highlands - unless I've missed some that have closed. Nowadays, there are some around Aberdeen, Gordonstoun, and that's it. So Gordonstoun is the furthest that anyone would have been sent, and where presumably Hogwarts was modelled on. It is telling incidentally that Rowling didn't herself go to a public school and how little the Hogwarts fantasy reflects reality.

 

[Altnabreac]

On reflection I realise the stupidity of my question given the general lack of public schools in the Highlands - unless I've missed some that have closed. Nowadays, there are some around Aberdeen, Gordonstoun, and that's it. So Gordonstoun is the furthest that anyone would have been sent, and where presumably Hogwarts was modelled on. It is telling incidentally that Rowling didn't herself go to a public school and how little the Hogwarts fantasy reflects reality.

Fort Augustus Abbey School and Rannoch School at Dall House both probably fit the Hogwarts model better both geographical location and design / architecture wise. Not sure either of them would be of the scale to have ever had special trains even in the 1950s.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Having seen the queue for the Harry Potter shop and 9 & 3/4 sign (with half of a luggage trolley against the wall) earlier this week I did breifly wonder whether this idea could have legs... But then I was reminded just how long the journey would take in reality; far from sensible I would think.

If we ignore the madness of how long it would take for a few minutes, is there a reason why it should use the ECML all the way to Edinburgh? I've not paid all that much attention to Harry Potter stuff; all I remember is the film shows Kings Cross and the Glenfinnan viaduct, a train between the two needn't go through Edinburgh. If it would help the pathing, couldn't the train leave the ECML at Peterborough, Grantham, Doncaster or Newcastle? With some of those options, you could get the Settle-Carlisle line in too, helping to sell it as a scenic run. Or can you not get from Carstairs/Kilmarnock to the West Highland Line without a reversal?

 

[Highlandspring]

From Carstairs you’d go up via Holytown, Coatbridge, Gartcosh, over the E&G at Cowlairs, Maryhill, Westerton; or you could go via Motherwell and the Argyll Line but you certainly wouldn’t get a path that way on a weekday or Saturday. From Kilmarnock is a little trickier as to avoid a reversal you’d need to go via Larkfield Curve and the R&C then as per the route above from Coatbridge. You would also really struggle to get a path via Barrhead.

 

[Giugiaro]

I recall once there being charters with the Hogwarts Express train, with the 5972 Olton Hall ahead?

This was years back, before the studios were open to the public as an exhibit. In 2011 I still found flyers for the tour, but can't remember the itinerary.

 

[800002]

I recall once there being charters with the Hogwarts Express train, with the 5972 Olton Hall ahead?

This was years back, before the studios were open to the public as an exhibit. In 2011 I still found flyers for the tour, but can't remember the itinerary.

Funnily enough, I believe this particular engine was subject in part of another thread this week (about the banning of steam from the network) - well it was the cause for a temporary ban of West Coast Railway (I think).
Can't find the link for the time being, but here is a piece about the 2014 farewell

https://www.focustransport.org/2014/07/not-good-day-for-steam.html?m=1

 

[Highlandspring]

JK Rowling also undertook a nationwide tour by train in July 2000 with 34027 Taw Valley; the loco had been repainted maroon and named Hogwarts Express. It was all set to star in the first film until a matter of weeks before production started (the first day of filming was 29th September 2000) the director, Chris Colombus, saw it and declared that it looked “too modern” prompting a rapid search for a replacement.

 

[Calthrop]

JK Rowling also undertook a nationwide tour by train in July 2000 with 34027 Taw Valley; the loco had been repainted maroon and named Hogwarts Express. It was all set to star in the first film until a matter of weeks before production started (the first day of filming was 29th September 2000) the director, Chris Colombus, saw it and declared that it looked “too modern” prompting a rapid search for a replacement.

I've heard it suggested that advisers in the preservation movement implored Mr. Columbus to pick some less-modern-looking loco, which was not ex-GWR -- what with fanatical GWR devotees liable to become homicidal at the blasphemy and sacrilege of painting a Great Western loco in red livery: but he fell absolutely in love with 5972 Olton Hall, and no other machine would do for him.

(My attention was first drawn to the Harry Potter books, by a paperback edition -- produced in Britain, I'm certain -- of the first in the series; with on its front cover, what looked for all the world like a [very fine] authentic photo taken in the days of regular steam in North America, of a steam-hauled main-line train in the US or Canada. Heaven only knows what that was all about.)

 

[Highlandspring]

I thought the UK edition of the first book had an HST on the cover?

 

[Ianno87]

Having seen the queue for the Harry Potter shop and 9 & 3/4 sign (with half of a luggage trolley against the wall) earlier this week I did breifly wonder whether this idea could have legs... But then I was reminded just how long the journey would take in reality; far from sensible I would think.

If we ignore the madness of how long it would take for a few minutes, is there a reason why it should use the ECML all the way to Edinburgh? I've not paid all that much attention to Harry Potter stuff; all I remember is the film shows Kings Cross and the Glenfinnan viaduct, a train between the two needn't go through Edinburgh. If it would help the pathing, couldn't the train leave the ECML at Peterborough, Grantham, Doncaster or Newcastle? With some of those options, you could get the Settle-Carlisle line in too, helping to sell it as a scenic run. Or can you not get from Carstairs/Kilmarnock to the West Highland Line without a reversal?

Or just pass off Ribblehead viaduct as Glenfinnan. Lots of people won't know the difference