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[Haywain]

I suspect the TOC has abused coach P to also contain some counted places, to be honest (counted places seem to require a coach and X and Y co-ordinates in RARS2/S3 Passenger).

No, coach P contains just 6 "seats", and only exists on 225 sets. This was done about 10 years ago, with HSTs having cycle reservations in Coach A. I think at the time part of the reasoning was that it allows the type of train to be visible in the booking so that staff could get bikes to the right end of the train (they were at opposite ends), and because bikes were never in seated coaches. It would still be useful in the same way now, to distinguish 225 sets from Azumas. I can't recall whether a bike reservation on an Azuma uses a similar idea, but it may be that the coach can be used now without needing a "seat".

 

[Adam Williams]

To be fair, I don't think that a reliable seat selector can be put together solely using the data in industry systems.

Yes, the views of some other entities (including TOC TIS suppliers) were clear at the last meeting I attended. It does raise questions about the procurement of this system though, really (and RDG's governance of the data within it), doesn't it.

In this instance though we have coach P in the RARS2 APIs for this service also marked as:

"canAutoAllocateSeat": true
"canSelectSeatManually": true

Why would you want a customer booking a seat to see this in a seat selector and be able to manually pick a seat from this "coach"? This seems wrong to me!
If nothing else, the inventory classes do at least follow the correct convention and are 9-prefixed, but this is still a proper mess.


I genuinely don't understand the justification @Haywain has provided for all this, even after reading it about 3 times (the type of train is clear from the coach description, so relying on the coach identifier doesn't seem necessary - but I guess platform staff looking at a reservation coupon won't see the former?), but more to the point - it seems to have been implemented without any thought as to the impact on anyone else using the reservations system. This should not be a user-selectable coach.

 

[Haywain]

I genuinely don't understand the justification @Haywain has provided for all this, even after reading it about 3 times (the type of train is clear from the coach description, so relying on the coach identifier doesn't seem necessary), but more to the point - it seems to have been implemented without any thought as to the impact on anyone else using the reservations system. This should not be a user-selectable coach.

The type of train might be clear to you, but it was originally done so that staff on a station could look at a customer's bike reservation coupon and that would tell them everything they needed to know. I doubt that there were seat selectors available at the time it was set up this way, so that would have been an unforseen impact. You also have to remember that it was done long before RARS was being considered (the 10 years is a bit of a guess - it could be longer). My erstwhile colleague @Wallsendmag might have some better recollection of the thoughts behind it, but I suspect that it's all rather off topic for this thread and of little relevance to other readers.

 

[Adam Williams]

The type of train might be clear to you, but it was originally done so that staff on a station could look at a customer's bike reservation coupon and that would tell them everything they needed to know. I doubt that there were seat selectors available at the time it was set up this way, so that would have been an unforseen impact. You also have to remember that it was done long before RARS was being considered (the 10 years is a bit of a guess - it could be longer). My erstwhile colleague @Wallsendmag might have some better recollection of the thoughts behind it, but I suspect that it's all rather off topic for this thread and of little relevance to other readers.

Yeah, I've just edited my post having thought of a member of staff being shown a coupon and telling a passenger where to stand in advance of the service's arrival.

I guess it's more frustrating that this hasn't been revisited in the decade or so that has passed. Don't the passenger information displays at east-coast stations make it clear what the stock is going to be for a specific service, which staff on the platform could refer to? Could bike spaces just be issued as counted places from a suppressed "coach" nowadays instead?

 

[Haywain]

I guess it's more frustrating that this hasn't been revisited in the decade or so that has passed. Don't the passenger information displays at east-coast stations make it clear what the stock is going to be for a specific service, which staff on the platform could refer to? Could bike spaces just be issued as counted places from a suppressed "coach" nowadays instead?

It's probably just left as it is because it's only a few trains involved, and supposedly only for a limited time. But yes, other solutions are now available to station staff.

 

[robbeech]

Been using this a bit recently, sadly don't do as many trains anymore as i can't rely on them as much. However, is there a way to adjust seat reservations after tickets are booked with this booking engine, either natively within the site or via support?

 

[MrJeeves]

Been using this a bit recently, sadly don't do as many trains anymore as i can't rely on them as much. However, is there a way to adjust seat reservations after tickets are booked with this booking engine, either natively within the site or via support?

Customer support will be able to do it for you. If you have any specific seats in mind, they can attempt to reserve them, but there aren't any guarantees.

Preferably you can select your seats before booking with the seat selector. You need to add the journey to your basket first, then you can change your seats from there.

 

[robbeech]

I'll get in touch, my post was a little unclear, it's likely a change of train (open ticket) rather than change of seats on a specific train.

 

[Egg Centric]

Currently getting a 503 downloading one of my receipts - characteristically I have left it till last minute to fill out expense form. It's not end of world but is anyone around atm to look at it?

Link to download logged in as me: (removed as I just realised anyone can download the receipt with that link - I should add to non techs that this doesn't mean it's insecure in any sense)

Booking reference: JLH82XT9

(It has now worked so I guess a genuine 503 heh!)

(gaaa and tfl contactless website is down too bloody expenses)

 

[Mike395]

Currently getting a 503 downloading one of my receipts - characteristically I have left it till last minute to fill out expense form. It's not end of world but is anyone around atm to look at it?

Link to download logged in as me: <redacted>

It's working for me currently? I'll PM you the PDF version of it.

Edit: ah - see there's no need as you've managed to get it successfully!

 

[Adam Williams]

If it happens again just thrash the F5 key repeatedly...

The receipts service is due to be made more reliable soon but what's running there now was mostly written in a Wetherspoons in a hackday or two when the team got cheap Advance tickets to Carlisle and did it on a day-out. I think the actual use it has gotten has far exceeded expectations!

It'll spin up a new container to generate the PDF in if it's figured out that it's borked and you make the request again.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I don't have time to scroll through 670 messages so apologies if this has been mentioned before: But one thing I'd really appreciate is a quick way to by-pass the journey planner, and just say, I'm travelling from X to Y on this date. Please just show me the available flexible tickets (maybe, including split tickets) so I can select the one I want. (If necessary, I can check a box to say that I understand it's my responsibility to check that the ticket I purchase is actually valid on whichever trains I choose to travel on).

And I don't know if it's already there and I haven't yet noticed it, but: If I register, can the site speed up my ticket purchasing by showing me journeys that I've already bought tickets for (on the assumption that they are the journeys I'm most likely to want to buy again)? Or at least, pre-fill-in my origin station on the journey planner, based on where I live?

 

[MrJeeves]

Please just show me the available flexible tickets

You can choose to only see flexible options on the search results page if you'd like. We can't just skip the journey planner — split ticketing is far too complex for us to just sell any old flexible tickets and leave it up to the customer to work it out.

can the site speed up my ticket purchasing by showing me journeys that I've already bought tickets for

This is something we're looking into for the TrainSplit mobile apps in the future, but I can't speak for the websites.

pre-fill-in my origin station on the journey planner, based on where I live

The TrainSplit apps can show stations near to you, but I appreciate that's no longer the forum's ticketing site.

 

[ainsworth74]

You can choose to only see flexible options on the search results page if you'd like. We can't just skip the journey planner — split ticketing is far too complex for us to just sell any old flexible tickets and leave it up to the customer to work it out.

It's also an accreditation fail isn't it? Ticket sites are required to present a valid itinerary not just sell the ticket requested?

 

[MrJeeves]

It's also an accreditation fail isn't it? Ticket sites are required to present a valid itinerary not just sell the ticket requested?

I didn't want to say it as I've not been around long enough to have seen the accred process for our JP, but I would have assumed so!

 

[DynamicSpirit]

It's also an accreditation fail isn't it? Ticket sites are required to present a valid itinerary not just sell the ticket requested?

Bugger! That is a real pain! So often, all I want to do is buy something like an off-peak return, and then on the day take whatever train is due at whatever time I happen to show up at the station: And the last thing I want when I'm doing that is to go through all the rigmarole and time-wasting of selecting online exactly which train I'll (supposedly) take.

If those are the accreditation rules, then I suspect that whichever organisation set up those rules is thinking too much about box-ticking and not enough about the passenger ticket-buying experience

 

[MrJeeves]

You can also just do what we all do and just pick and train that is close enough to what you'll likely do on whatever day you plan to do it

It does frustrate me too, like when I had to plan a journey to return on a weekend instead of Friday because Chiltern have set electronic restrictions up which prevent me travelling on a train needed to get me to my destination.

 

[Egg Centric]

I suspect that whichever organisation set up those rules is thinking too much about box-ticking and not enough about the passenger ticket-buying experience

New to UK railways are we?

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Bugger! That is a real pain! So often, all I want to do is buy something like an off-peak return, and then on the day take whatever train is due at whatever time I happen to show up at the station: And the last thing I want when I'm doing that is to go through all the rigmarole and time-wasting of selecting online exactly which train I'll (supposedly) take.

If those are the accreditation rules, then I suspect that whichever organisation set up those rules is thinking too much about box-ticking and not enough about the passenger ticket-buying experience

This is a real pain. Take the following example:

Manchester to Accrington
CDR route Bromley Cross £12.50
CDR route Todmorden £12.70
CDR route Any Permitted £12.90
In order to buy the Any Permitted you have to find an itinerary travelling out one way and returning the other. Anything else and you get offered either Bromley Cross or Todmorden and no flexibility. Plus you have to specify an itinerary that includes a Piccadilly to Salford Crescent or Piccadilly to Victoria train, otherwise you get told to make your own way across Manchester and sometimes even get offered (by the Rail Forum badged site) a single/return from Piccadilly to Victoria (£3.00 / £3.40 / £4.00) on top of your Manchester STNS to Accrington ticket.

At a ticket office you would simply ask for the 'any permitted' ticket, or 'the £12.90 one please'.

For just 40p extra the flexibility is quite useful.

 

[MrJeeves]

This is a real pain. Take the following example:

Manchester to Accrington
CDR route Bromley Cross £12.50
CDR route Todmorden £12.70
CDR route Any Permitted £12.90

In order to buy the Any Permitted you have to find an itinerary travelling out one way and returning the other.

We have got plans to provide you the opportunity to select another alternative ticket that permits travel on your itinerary, but there's no set release date for this feature yet.

 

[Haywain]

This is a real pain. Take the following example:

Manchester to Accrington
CDR route Bromley Cross £12.50
CDR route Todmorden £12.70
CDR route Any Permitted £12.90
In order to buy the Any Permitted you have to find an itinerary travelling out one way and returning the other. Anything else and you get offered either Bromley Cross or Todmorden and no flexibility. Plus you have to specify an itinerary that includes a Piccadilly to Salford Crescent or Piccadilly to Victoria train, otherwise you get told to make your own way across Manchester and sometimes even get offered (by the Rail Forum badged site) a single/return from Piccadilly to Victoria (£3.00 / £3.40 / £4.00) on top of your Manchester STNS to Accrington ticket.

At a ticket office you would simply ask for the 'any permitted' ticket, or 'the £12.90 one please'.

For just 40p extra the flexibility is quite useful.

Alternatively just buy the route Bromley Cross ticket and pay a 10p excess if you're travelling via Todmorden. Or the via Todmorden ticket and pay nothing extra if travelling via Bromley Cross. You cannot be otherwise penalised for teavelling by the other (wrong) route.

 

[dnalei]

Is there another ticket sales website that allows simple purchase of an OP return on X date? I have the same problem trying to buy Chester to Manchester, it eats up a lot of time

 

[Llandudno]

This is a real pain. Take the following example:

Manchester to Accrington
CDR route Bromley Cross £12.50
CDR route Todmorden £12.70
CDR route Any Permitted £12.90
In order to buy the Any Permitted you have to find an itinerary travelling out one way and returning the other. Anything else and you get offered either Bromley Cross or Todmorden and no flexibility. Plus you have to specify an itinerary that includes a Piccadilly to Salford Crescent or Piccadilly to Victoria train, otherwise you get told to make your own way across Manchester and sometimes even get offered (by the Rail Forum badged site) a single/return from Piccadilly to Victoria (£3.00 / £3.40 / £4.00) on top of your Manchester STNS to Accrington ticket.

At a ticket office you would simply ask for the 'any permitted' ticket, or 'the £12.90 one please'.

For just 40p extra the flexibility is quite useful.

X41 bus from Accrington to Manchester takes the same length of time as the train to Piccadilly and costs just £2 single…

 

[Farigiraf]

How do I get a travelcard to a specific station? Cambridge to Finsbury Park Nov 20 leaving on the 09:53 Thameslink and returning on either the 18:02 (Great Northern Slow) or 18:07 (Thameslink). I tried searching Cambridge to London Travelcard Z1-6 but that only gives me Kings Cross or Liverpool Street tickets, but Finsbury Park is better/cheaper overall as I'm going to a Piccadilly line destination.

Additionally, I tried other sites (Thameslink, Trainline) and they want to sell me a Super Off-Peak Day Travelcard. Isn't 6pm on a Monday right in the heart of Peak-Time?

 

[bcarmicle]

Additionally, I tried other sites (Thameslink, Trainline) and they want to sell me a Super Off-Peak Day Travelcard. Isn't 6pm on a Monday right in the heart of Peak-Time?

The electronic restriction data prohibits departing in the evening betwen 1630 and 1901 inclusive, only from Farringdon, St Pancras, Blackfriars, City Thameslink, London Bridge, Elephant and Castle, Old Street, Moorgate, Kings Cross, and Liverpool Street. As your journey departs from Finsbury Park, you're not subject to that restriction.

The published restriction data does prohibit the journey as they refer to the train instead of the journey, but you are entitled to rely on an itinerary issued at the time of ticket sale.

 

[Gaelan]

How do I get a travelcard to a specific station? Cambridge to Finsbury Park Nov 20 leaving on the 09:53 Thameslink and returning on either the 18:02 (Great Northern Slow) or 18:07 (Thameslink). I tried searching Cambridge to London Travelcard Z1-6 but that only gives me Kings Cross or Liverpool Street tickets, but Finsbury Park is better/cheaper overall as I'm going to a Piccadilly line destination.

Pretty sure the travelcard prices should be identical (although, as @bcarmicle notes, the peak restrictions depend on what station you actually travel from), as a travelcard would be valid for travel from Finsbury Park to Kings Cross anyway.

 

[Farigiraf]

The electronic restriction data prohibits departing in the evening betwen 1630 and 1901 inclusive, only from Farringdon, St Pancras, Blackfriars, City Thameslink, London Bridge, Elephant and Castle, Old Street, Moorgate, Kings Cross, and Liverpool Street. As your journey departs from Finsbury Park, you're not subject to that restriction.

The published restriction data does prohibit the journey as they refer to the train instead of the journey, but you are entitled to rely on an itinerary issued at the time of ticket sale.

Pretty sure the travelcard prices should be identical (although, as @bcarmicle notes, the peak restrictions depend on what station you actually travel from), as a travelcard would be valid for travel from Finsbury Park to Kings Cross anyway.

Because of these peak restrictions at London Terminals, I'm only offered an Off-Peak (not 'Super') Day Travelcard to Kings Cross, even though the restriction isn't at Finsbury Park so it would save about 2 pounds to travel from there.
Thanks for reminding me that on the way back I can travel from Kings Cross though (although I couldn't get the non-stop anyway as it doesn't stop at FPK).

 

[Baxenden Bank]

X41 bus from Accrington to Manchester takes the same length of time as the train to Piccadilly and costs just £2 single…

I can't claim Delay Repay when the X41 is delayed! On my most recent trip £15.55 repaid (on a split ticket) for a delay of just over an hour, mostly due to the frequency being hourly from Stoke to home. £12.90 less £15.55 = -£2.65 makes the train worth taking!

 

[Rhydgaled]

Is there another ticket sales website that allows simple purchase of an OP return on X date? I have the same problem trying to buy Chester to Manchester, it eats up a lot of time

How about this one https://tickets.gwr.com/gw/en/journeyplanning/mixingdeck (or any other website that uses 'Mixing Deck' - I think both Chiltern and East Coast used to but just tried the LNER and Chiltern websites now and they don't seem to be Mixing Deck based now)? I think you only have to select a service if you want to reserve a seat. When you select a specific fare, any services that ticket is not valid on are greyed out (which I presume handles the requirement to check for a valid itinerary).

Mixing Deck is very much my favoriate journey planner interface, partly because of the way it clearly shows the journey time for each option. Sadly GWR's site lacks features other websites offer (such as seat selection or the option to use a postcode instead of a specific station on National Rail Enquiries) or the GWR site would probably be the only journey planner I'd use.

 

[MrJeeves]

Because of these peak restrictions at London Terminals, I'm only offered an Off-Peak (not 'Super') Day Travelcard to Kings Cross, even though the restriction isn't at Finsbury Park so it would save about 2 pounds to travel from there.

Well no, the restrictions apply on any train that will depart from or arrive at a London Terminal within those times, no matter where you board.

Look up fares for any train journey in Britain

Full details of all British rail Single, Return & Season tickets and Travelcards. Built-in Season Ticket Calculator.

www.brfares.com

Not valid on trains timed to arrive at London Terminals before 10:55

Not valid on trains timed to depart the following London stations after 16:29 or before 19:02:

London Kings Cross
Moorgate
London St Pancras Intl
Farringdon
City Thameslink
London Blackfriars
London Bridge
Elephant & Castle
London Liverpool Street

(return one is trimmed down)

Any train from Finsbury Park back to Cambridge will have been timed to depart from KGX or STP first.

Either way, if you want to travel to Finsbury Park, you can put in "via Finsbury Park", but we will always issue the itinerary to a London Terminal (unless the search for a point to point journey works out cheaper by getting a Travelcard, e.g weekend Brighton to Euston is typically cheaper as a Travelcard than return to LU Zone 1)

Thanks for reminding me that on the way back I can travel from Kings Cross though (although I couldn't get the non-stop anyway as it doesn't stop at FPK).

Why couldn't you get the fast service? A train could run direct from KGX to Cambridge and you could get this with your Travelcard provided it complied with any time or route restriction.