Irregular travel

[abigal]

Hello
Would appreciate if could assist me.

My friend recently had been stopped by an inspector on greater Anglia to which she failed to produce a valid ticket from Chelmsford to Stratford.
The inspector noted her name , birth date and previous house address. My friend being afraid gave her name partially correct. She received a letter at her previous address saying there would proceed with legal prosecution if she didn’t reply within 7 days.

Any advice if she should ignore or reply to the email?

 

[skyhigh]

Any advice if she should ignore or reply to the email?

Reply, come clean about the name and address.

If they ignore it will result in a criminal conviction, it will be traced back to them through the partial details and make things much worse.

 

[abigal]

This is the letter my friend received.
View attachment 154004

 

[AlterEgo]

She received a letter at her previous address saying there would proceed with legal prosecution if she didn’t reply within 7 days.

Any advice if she should ignore or reply to the email?

Is it a letter or an email? I can't view your attachment.

 

[abigal]

She has now received an email from the Greater Anglia fraud investigations team with the title travel irregularity. It states that she was spoken to by Greater Anglia staff in relation to ticket irregularity and the facts of this incident have been submitted to the office and are being considered for legal proceedings.
It also states that if she wishes to contact them about the case then to do so within 7 days and an email to contact them. Lastly, it states that without her input this matter could be passed to the prosecution team.

Based on all of the above information what are the best steps to avoid prosecution. She is willing to pay back the missing fare amounts as well as a fine.

 

[SteveM70]

Not sure if it’s just me, but your attachment doesn’t work.

The basic advice would be for your friend to engage with GA as doing nothing will almost inevitably mean being taken to court. To advise more specifically we need more information - what exactly is the alleged irregularity?

 

[WesternLancer]

Hello
Would appreciate if could assist me.

My friend recently had been stopped by an inspector on greater Anglia to which she failed to produce a valid ticket from Chelmsford to Stratford.
The inspector noted her name , birth date and previous house address. My friend being afraid gave her name partially correct. She received a letter at her previous address saying there would proceed with legal prosecution if she didn’t reply within 7 days.

Any advice if she should ignore or reply to the email?

100% do not ignore this or it will escalate to criminal prosecution in court which can be almost certainly avoided by replying with an apology and a request to settle the matter without the need for prosecution - see lots of other threads on basic points to include in a reply.

It will cost some money but way less than if it goes to court - and they WILL find your friend esp if it goes to court (see other threads on here for examples of that) - court bailiffs are good at finding people it seems!

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Based on all of the above information what are the best steps to avoid prosecution. She is willing to pay back the missing fare amounts as well as a fine.

Was that a typo, or are you saying she has done this more than once, and this is the first time she has been caught?

 

[Titfield]

To the original poster : May I suggest that you search on this forum for the advice @Hadders gives when responding to requests for a written response to being stopped for failing to be in possession of a valid ticket.

The search box is on the top right hand corner of the forum web page.

As others have said upthread, engaging with Greater Anglia should enable this matter to be resolved albeit at a cost. Failing to respond will ultimately be far more expensive and could result in a criminal record which has further implications.

 

[abigal]

She would book her

Not sure if it’s just me, but your attachment doesn’t work.

The basic advice would be for your friend to engage with GA as doing nothing will almost inevitably mean being taken to court. To advise more specifically we need more information - what exactly is the alleged irregularity?

my friend was booking incomplete tickets for her journey. From Chelmsford to ingaestone ( should be from Chelmsford to Stratford) as she was doing an internship. She was unable to afford it

 

[AlterEgo]

She would book her

my friend was booking incomplete tickets for her journey. From Chelmsford to ingaestone ( should be from Chelmsford to Stratford) as she was doing an internship. She was unable to afford it

How were they exiting at Stratford?

 

[Brissle Girl]

How did they get her email address, if she didn’t give it to them (you didn’t mention it in the first post). I can only assume that they scanned the ticket she did have and have got all her details from there.

There can only be one recommendation here which is to cooperate and try for an out of court settlement, which should be achievable, although it may cost a lot if she has been doing it for a substantial period. Failure to cooperate will inevitably mean prosecution, and an even bigger cost to her.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

This is a serious matter and it is extremely important that you reply to the letter from Greater Anglia if you want to keep this out of court.

I suggest you send a short, concise reply mentioning the following:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Greater Anglia are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. We cannot guarantee this and the train company is within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court should they choose to do so.

An aggravating factor is you appear to have done this several times. I can’t see the letter you posted but if it indicates that they suspect you have short fared on other occasions it would be wise to tell them this in your reply.

Out of court settlements typically cost around £150 plus the fare avoided (although the cost can be higher if it involves a more complex investigation). A settlement might appear to be a fine, but technically it isn't (only a court can impose a fine as a punishment upon conviction) and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Feel free to post a copy your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

 

[lfg]

She has now received an email from the Greater Anglia fraud investigations team with the title travel irregularity. It states that she was spoken to by Greater Anglia staff in relation to ticket irregularity and the facts of this incident have been submitted to the office and are being considered for legal proceedings.
It also states that if she wishes to contact them about the case then to do so within 7 days and an email to contact them. Lastly, it states that without her input this matter could be passed to the prosecution team.

Based on all of the above information what are the best steps to avoid prosecution. She is willing to pay back the missing fare amounts as well as a fine.

To avoid prosecution, "your friend" should just come clean and cooperate with Greater Anglia. Although, if this has happened multiple times then you probably owe them a decent amount of cash. Reasoning this by being an intern would not make a difference and most likely won't earn you any sympathy votes so probably best to leave that out, just own up to the situtation.

 

[JBuchananGB]

How were they exiting at Stratford?

The normal procedure at Stratford is to tap in contactless or Oyster on Platform 3/5 if boarding a Central Line train, or on the Jubilee line concourse, or other places without exiting the station. Even the pink reader on the Overground will do it. Done it many times myself, albeit while holding a proper ticket to Stratford.

 

[skyhigh]

The normal procedure at Stratford is to tap in contactless or Oyster on Platform 3/5 if boarding a Central Line train, or on the Jubilee line concourse, or other places without exiting the station. Even the pink reader on the Overground will do it. Done it many times myself, albeit while holding a proper ticket to Stratford.

It would be more helpful to hear how the OP did it, not how you'd do it if we were going to provide advice.......

 

[Brissle Girl]

It would be more helpful to hear how the OP did it, not how you'd do it if we were going to provide advice.......

I understood the point to be that there is no need to exit a gateline to continue your journey by TfL, so the question doesn’t really arise in the way it was posed.

 

[abigal]

Welcome to the forum!

This is a serious matter and it is extremely important that you reply to the letter from Greater Anglia if you want to keep this out of court.

I suggest you send a short, concise reply mentioning the following:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Greater Anglia are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. We cannot guarantee this and the train company is within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court should they choose to do so.

An aggravating factor is you appear to have done this several times. I can’t see the letter you posted but if it indicates that they suspect you have short fared on other occasions it would be wise to tell them this in your reply.

Out of court settlements typically cost around £150 plus the fare avoided (although the cost can be higher if it involves a more complex investigation). A settlement might appear to be a fine, but technically it isn't (only a court can impose a fine as a punishment upon conviction) and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Feel free to post a copy your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

My friend just got a reply from GA.
The reply is as below:

Ordinarily, it is the policy of Greater Anglia to prosecute all instances of fare evasion under the Railways Act 2005.

However, after investigating into your travel history, we are prepared to close the matter upon payment of£1,755.60. This is the outstanding fare (£1,655.60)plus our administration costs (£100).

The amount is really huge for my friend.Is there any way to negotiate with GA?

 

[trebor79]

My friend just got a reply from GA.
The reply is as below:

Ordinarily, it is the policy of Greater Anglia to prosecute all instances of fare evasion under the Railways Act 2005.

However, after investigating into your travel history, we are prepared to close the matter upon payment of£1,755.60. This is the outstanding fare (£1,655.60)plus our administration costs (£100).

The amount is really huge for my friend.Is there any way to negotiate with GA?

Not really. Your friend has obviously been doing this for some time, so all they are asking for is the evaded fares plus their admin costs. The alternative is court and a criminal record.

Best advice is to pay up and buy the proper tickets in future.

 

[AlterEgo]

My friend just got a reply from GA.
The reply is as below:

Ordinarily, it is the policy of Greater Anglia to prosecute all instances of fare evasion under the Railways Act 2005.

However, after investigating into your travel history, we are prepared to close the matter upon payment of£1,755.60. This is the outstanding fare (£1,655.60)plus our administration costs (£100).

The amount is really huge for my friend.Is there any way to negotiate with GA?

Has your friend evaded £1655 worth of fares?

 

[Brissle Girl]

Not really. Your friend has obviously been doing this for some time, so all they are asking for is the evaded fares plus their admin costs. The alternative is court and a criminal record.

Best advice is to pay up and buy the proper tickets in future.

Agree with this in terms of paying up. But if the evaded fares are based on Anytime single fares then it is likely that they are paying more (maybe substantially more) than if they had bought the correct ticket in the first place.

 

[island]

The amount is really huge for my friend.Is there any way to negotiate with GA?

It is not usually possible to negotiate settlement amounts because they are “really huge”; they simply reflect the sum that ought to have been paid in the first instance.

There is precedent for settlement amounts being amended downwards if they were calculated based on incorrect assumptions or where the passenger is able to provide evidence that the correct ticket was held on one or more of the occasions the TOC is claiming for.

 

[30907]

Has your friend evaded £1655 worth of fares?

That's x100 the Anytime Single pre the latest increase. So 10 weeks' worth of commuting.

 

[WesternLancer]

That's x100 the Anytime Single pre the latest increase. So 10 weeks' worth of commuting.

I imagine some sort of season ticket would have been cheaper, but essentially that is the gamble the OP took when deciding to evade the fare - ie choice between buying the cheapest legitimate fares or chancing not being caught without a ticket. The problem is that if you do this regularly the statistical chance of getting caught and having to then pay up or be prosecuted increases with every time you do it.

 

[Hadders]

My friend just got a reply from GA.
The reply is as below:

Ordinarily, it is the policy of Greater Anglia to prosecute all instances of fare evasion under the Railways Act 2005.

However, after investigating into your travel history, we are prepared to close the matter upon payment of£1,755.60. This is the outstanding fare (£1,655.60)plus our administration costs (£100).

The amount is really huge for my friend.Is there any way to negotiate with GA?

The thing to consider is how many times has the fare been avoided?

The danger with trying to negotiate - and you would need to have clear proof that the calculation was wrong, not just telling them that you can’t afford it - is that Greater Anglia could withdraw the settlement offer and send the case to the Magistrates Court. They would only be able to prosecute you for the single offence where you were caught but you would then have to pay:

- A fine based on your income
- A surcharge of 40% of the value of the fine
- Greater Anglia’s costs in bringing the case to court
- Compensation for the fare avoided

In addition to the above you’d be convicted of a criminal offence.

 

[abigal]

Has your friend evaded £1655 worth of fares?

No, it was roughly 12-15 times.

 

[AlterEgo]

No, it was roughly 12-15 times.

Why might they think so many fares have been evaded?

 

[WesternLancer]

No, it was roughly 12-15 times.

So maybe your friend could consider if it is worth asking them for a breakdown of the fares they think have been evaded so that your friend can compare this with their own records. A carefully crafted message or letter back to them could result in them possibly reconsidering the sum - tho there are risks to this. But errors are not unheard of.