Is hotel availability and high pricing affecting leisure and/or business rail travel?

[AlterEgo]

Another thumbs up for Premier Inn here, a bastion of consistency. Probably wouldn't pay more than £70 unless I was desperate but it was always by the far the best and most reliable option before I gained status with a few bigger hotel chains (Hampton by Hilton now is my default hotel in a British city - very much like a Premier Inn actually!).

 

[riceuten]

Notwithstanding some of the bargain offers that you encounter, I have always - particularly in London and tourist hotspots like York and Edinburgh found British hotel prices much higher than the equivalent on the continent.

 

[peters]

Notwithstanding some of the bargain offers that you encounter, I have always - particularly in London and tourist hotspots like York and Edinburgh found British hotel prices much higher than the equivalent on the continent.

In 2019 I looked at the option of a short break in Oxford but decided against it because a short break in Riga was a cheaper option. That was due to a combination of higher hotel prices in Oxford and also down to XC train fares being higher than fares for flights to some European cities. Riga worked well at the time because it was something like a 09:45 flight out of Manchester and something like a 22:00 flight back from Riga so it allowed a full day in Riga before the flight home, as well some time to do things on the arrival day.

That said there are some pricey cities in Europe e.g. Barcelona and Venice.

 

[Silver Cobra]

It's interesting to see all the comments regarding the comparisons between Travelodge and Premier Inn, and how the majority of contributors to this thread rate Premier Inn over Travelodge. I have only ever stayed in Travelodge's so far (my first stay was at London City Airport in 2015, and have since used several of their hotels in London, Lowestoft, Blackpool and Glasgow), and by and large my experiences have been generally pleasant. I've never expected too much from them, knowing they are a budget hotel chain, so I guess my standards aren't too high. I particularly like staying at the Lowestoft branch, as although it's pretty much no-frills (no on-site restaurant and no super rooms), the standard of cleanliness and general ambience have always been pretty top-notch each time I've stayed there, plus you have a Harvester next door to it and Tesco just the other side of the road too. Being 4.5 rated on Trip Advisor also goes to show this branch is pretty highly-rated.

The reason I've stuck with Travelodge over Premier Inn is the equivalent Premier Inn hotels at where I plan to stay have generally been around 20-30% more expensive, so I've opted to take the saving with going with Travelodge rather than Premier Inn. However, looking up the prices that I did last night for the post I made, it does seem the price difference has somewhat disappeared now. If the MCM Comic Con goes ahead at the ExCeL this October, where I would normally book the Woolwich Travelodge for a weekend stay for that, I may consider giving Premier Inn a try instead.

 

[Bald Rick]

Unquestionably a better nights sleep in PI than TL. To the extent that we went and bought the PI mattress for home !

 

[greyman42]

Notwithstanding some of the bargain offers that you encounter, I have always - particularly in London and tourist hotspots like York and Edinburgh found British hotel prices much higher than the equivalent on the continent.

You can get a double room at a modern Travelodge in York city centre for £35 a night this weekend. I would say that's about £100 cheaper than pre lockdown.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's interesting to see all the comments regarding the comparisons between Travelodge and Premier Inn, and how the majority of contributors to this thread rate Premier Inn over Travelodge. I have only ever stayed in Travelodge's so far (my first stay was at London City Airport in 2015, and have since used several of their hotels in London, Lowestoft, Blackpool and Glasgow), and by and large my experiences have been generally pleasant. I've never expected too much from them, knowing they are a budget hotel chain, so I guess my standards aren't too high. I particularly like staying at the Lowestoft branch, as although it's pretty much no-frills (no on-site restaurant and no super rooms), the standard of cleanliness and general ambience have always been pretty top-notch each time I've stayed there, plus you have a Harvester next door to it and Tesco just the other side of the road too. Being 4.5 rated on Trip Advisor also goes to show this branch is pretty highly-rated.

The reason I've stuck with Travelodge over Premier Inn is the equivalent Premier Inn hotels at where I plan to stay have generally been around 20-30% more expensive, so I've opted to take the saving with going with Travelodge rather than Premier Inn. However, looking up the prices that I did last night for the post I made, it does seem the price difference has somewhat disappeared now. If the MCM Comic Con goes ahead at the ExCeL this October, where I would normally book the Woolwich Travelodge for a weekend stay for that, I may consider giving Premier Inn a try instead.

I think the two are very much easyJet vs Ryanair. Ryanair is generally very poor but also very cheap. easyJet is more expensive, but is generally better-run.

Where they go apart is that Ryanair do maintain their aircraft properly, whereas my experience of Travelodge is that they don't maintain their hotels properly. The new ones are OK but they quickly end up in a poor state.

 

[bramling]

Unquestionably a better nights sleep in PI than TL. To the extent that we went and bought the PI mattress for home !

This is the thing for me - no point saving a few pounds, and then not sleeping well. This has happened on more than one occasion when we essentially have had to use a TL when it was the only place available.

Especially not what we needed when spending the day walking the Selsey Tramway route, and the whole point of staying over was to get a decent start in the morning. In practice, the hotel was filthy and stank of cannabis, the parking was bad such that we had to leave the car in the station car park on the other side of the city, and we got pretty much zero sleep. After that we said essentially not again unless absolutely no other alternative, we then managed another bad experience in west Wales last year - again last resort, and I can honestly say it was the worst and most filthy place we’ve *ever* stayed in - and it wasn’t massively cheap either.

 

[riceuten]

I am sure that, as I said, bargains will pop up from time to time, but in general, the cities I mentioned will generally be VERY expensive and not brilliant for what you get

 

[Blinkbonny]

England is still in Lockdown, and the Travelodge site spells out that you shouldn't be staying there except for various exempt reasons.

How effectively they police this I wouldn't know, but it's been enough to put me off.

Their prices shoot up massively at the end of the month.

 

[Mike99]

My wife and I stayed for 1 night (breaking up a drive from Harlow to Ullapool) and stayed Travelodge Falkirk and it was atrocious worst place ever it had one old plastic chair in the corner of the room and a very unwelcoming bed. We stayed at Travelodge near Mirfield that was also a bad choice. I see it's now run by a firm called Metro Inns, there was fight in the room next door and the police turned up in the middle of the night.
At the Bath Travelodge the breakfast choices were so bad I called the manager. I showed him a picture of the glossy leaflet of the breakfast offering with all the choices and happy smiling families. I asked him to stand in front of the selection on offer that morning with me. I asked him to explain why the differences between the picture and the choices available and he couldn't, it was so bad. He was apologetic and knocked the cost of our breakfast of our bill.
I stayed at Premier Inn, Charing Cross Glasgow, literally located just above the station, for a couple of nights and it was very good, excellent breakfast choice, and nice clean rooms. Ideally situated for the City Centre (Glasgow Central & Queen Street) and I managed to clear a lot of the Glasgow suburban lines on a ALR.

 

[nanstallon]

I think they are going to do everything they can to recoup their profit margin - lower customer service, higher room rates etc. Whether this will be sustainable long term when customers are " wise" to it remains to be seen ( and they have alternatives again).

The usual British attitude to the punter - 'as we lost money during the lockdown, it's the customer's fault and the world owes us a living so we'll put our prices up'. I'm lucky enough to be living in a holiday area, so I'll have a staycation in my own home!

 

[Kite159]

You can get a double room at a modern Travelodge in York city centre for £35 a night this weekend. I would say that's about £100 cheaper than pre lockdown.

Although that might be down to leisure stays in hotels not being allowed at the moment, you need to have a valid reason for wanting to stay.

And no doubt enforcement of this will vary between hotels, some simply not caring as long as you don't tick leisure on the website booking it

 

[Bletchleyite]

The usual British attitude to the punter - 'as we lost money during the lockdown, it's the customer's fault and the world owes us a living so we'll put our prices up'.

Or more reasonably "we've burnt our cash during lockdown, so we quite reasonably need to charge more to rebuild that and ensure the security of our company".

Sure, furlough paid for most staff, but staff aren't by any means the only cost to a business.

 

[Ianno87]

Or more reasonably "we've burnt our cash during lockdown, so we quite reasonably need to charge more to rebuild that and ensure the security of our company".

"Which we're not forcing anybody to pay to stay here if they don't want to".

 

[Bald Rick]

"Which we're not forcing anybody to pay to stay here if they don't want to".

“But given emerging trends on bookings, we fully expect that we will be full even at these prices”

 

[Skymonster]

"Which we're not forcing anybody to pay to stay here if they don't want to".

Indeed, which people will remember and probably not even bother to consider the place next year.

Interesting example: Glasgow City Centre - last summer I stayed in a reasonable chain hotel for three nights for around £150. Same dates this year, same deal is £370. Last year I thought it was good value, this year I will stay somewhere else, next year I won't even bother looking at their rates.

I totally get yield management, but the UK this year needs to be seen not to be gouging people - put them off this year and they'll not even think about the UK again and go straight for the abroad option next year.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I totally get yield management, but the UK this year needs to be seen not to be gouging people - put them off this year and they'll not even think about the UK again and go straight for the abroad option next year.

As I said there needs to be a bit of customer to business empathy. Businesses have been hit hard by this all even with the furlough scheme.

Some will be profiteering, but most will just want to rebuild their business's security (in cash-in-bank terms), and build a safety net in case of another closure period.

The line of argument you are pursuing is a bit like the adversarial "the management are evil" culture that exists in industries like the railway, rather than a level of mutual understanding of different priorities which provides for better industrial relations.

 

[Skymonster]

As I said there needs to be a bit of customer to business empathy. Businesses have been hit hard by this all even with the furlough scheme.

Some will be profiteering, but most will just want to rebuild their business's security (in cash-in-bank terms), and build a safety net in case of another closure period.

The line of argument you are pursuing is a bit like the adversarial "the management are evil" culture that exists in industries like the railway, rather than a level of mutual understanding of different priorities which provides for better industrial relations.

Please yourself then. As I said, I get yield management - I get that the last room in the hotel is going to go for more than the first. But you know what: customers don't owe hoteliers anything over any above what have a right to expect - many of those customers have been through the wringer too. In fact, hoteliers (and restaurants, and tourist attractions) owe it to their customers to offer the best experience possible this year at a justifiable price based on the quality and service provided. That's the way to build longer term loyalty. There's lots of folks thinking of holidaying in the UK this year, and if any aspect of doing so leaves a bad taste in their mouths they'll be abroad again next year without a second thought for the UK economy.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Please yourself then. As I said, I get yield management - I get that the last room in the hotel is going to go for more than the first. But you know what: customers don't owe hoteliers anything over any above what have a right to expect - many of those customers have been through the wringer too. In fact, hoteliers (and restaurants, and tourist attractions) owe it to their customers to offer the best experience possible this year at a justifiable price based on the quality and service provided. That's the way to build longer term loyalty. There's lots of folks thinking of holidaying in the UK this year, and if any aspect of doing so leaves a bad taste in their mouths they'll be abroad again next year without a second thought for the UK economy.

It's literally not at all about who owes who what. It's about people being reasonable (and that applies to both sides), and that if the price is too high (regardless of why it is) you simply don't take them up on it - it's an invitation to treat, you don't have to take it. If that causes them to get less income, they'll soon change it.

A lot of people speak as if a holiday is an entitlement, it's not, it's a business transaction. Hotels offer their rooms at £X. If you're willing to pay £X-1, no deal.

Won't work with a chain, but you might find with independent hotels that if you phone them and have a chat they might be willing to knock a bit off, or perhaps give you a free breakfast or something to sweeten the deal.

 

[al78]

Please yourself then. As I said, I get yield management - I get that the last room in the hotel is going to go for more than the first. But you know what: customers don't owe hoteliers anything over any above what have a right to expect - many of those customers have been through the wringer too. In fact, hoteliers (and restaurants, and tourist attractions) owe it to their customers to offer the best experience possible this year at a justifiable price based on the quality and service provided. That's the way to build longer term loyalty. There's lots of folks thinking of holidaying in the UK this year, and if any aspect of doing so leaves a bad taste in their mouths they'll be abroad again next year without a second thought for the UK economy.

The thing is a lot of people have been prevented from holidaying over the last year and a bit and even now, there is uncertainty over taking holidays abroad, so a lot of people have a stronger than normal desire to go on holiday somewhere, and if they can't go abroad, somewhere in the UK will do (despite the iffy spring weather so far). This means that demand for accommodation in the UK's honey pot areas will have soared, and soaring demand leads to higher prices. Businesses can charge what they like if there are enough customers willing to pay so they make a decent profit. It is not really any different from the prices being ramped up during school holiday periods.

 

[yorksrob]

I've actually got some decent prices chez Premier Inn in Cornwall in late May.

 

[peters]

As I said there needs to be a bit of customer to business empathy. Businesses have been hit hard by this all even with the furlough scheme.

Some will be profiteering, but most will just want to rebuild their business's security (in cash-in-bank terms), and build a safety net in case of another closure period.

The line of argument you are pursuing is a bit like the adversarial "the management are evil" culture that exists in industries like the railway, rather than a level of mutual understanding of different priorities which provides for better industrial relations.

Don't forget businesses with finances hit by COVID will be requiring hotel rooms too.

 

[bramling]

The thing is a lot of people have been prevented from holidaying over the last year and a bit and even now, there is uncertainty over taking holidays abroad, so a lot of people have a stronger than normal desire to go on holiday somewhere, and if they can't go abroad, somewhere in the UK will do (despite the iffy spring weather so far). This means that demand for accommodation in the UK's honey pot areas will have soared, and soaring demand leads to higher prices. Businesses can charge what they like if there are enough customers willing to pay so they make a decent profit. It is not really any different from the prices being ramped up during school holiday periods.

This is exactly it. Supply and demand, there’s no more to it than that. Demand goes up whilst supply stays the same, price then goes up. Those who are willing (and able) to pay the most will get accommodation.

I don’t really buy the idea that this will have much effect on future trips. Most of the people thinking of taking U.K. holidays this year are exactly he types who won’t normally do so. The moment foreign holidays become available again, that’s where they will be, especially if they get a nice dose of British weather.

Those who normally take U.K. holidays, supporting U.K. hotels year after year are the ones more likely to lose out, but the flip side of that coin is they’ve probably been savvy and booked ages ago when prices weren’t so high.

The sooner foreign holidays are an option again, the better, as it will stop this artificially high demand. I suspect hotels will be keener to keep their established year-after-year business, rather than trying to attract a load of one-offs who probably won’t return again no matter what the price.

 

[Bald Rick]

This is exactly it. Supply and demand, there’s no more to it than that. Demand goes up whilst supply stays the same, price then goes up. Those who are willing (and able) to pay the most will get accommodation.

I don’t really buy the idea that this will have much effect on future trips. Most of the people thinking of taking U.K. holidays this year are exactly he types who won’t normally do so. The moment foreign holidays become available again, that’s where they will be, especially if they get a nice dose of British weather.

Those who normally take U.K. holidays, supporting U.K. hotels year after year are the ones more likely to lose out, but the flip side of that coin is they’ve probably been savvy and booked ages ago when prices weren’t so high.

The sooner foreign holidays are an option again, the better, as it will stop this artificially high demand. I suspect hotels will be keener to keep their established year-after-year business, rather than trying to attract a load of one-offs who probably won’t return again no matter what the price.

Agree entirely.

What’s more, when foreign holidays are back on the agenda in full (next year most likely), those who normally go abroad every year will do so, as will those who perhaps go abroad every 2-3 years. And those who have been saving up for a special trip, say to Disney, or Australia, or wherever exotic, will go as well. All of these people would have holidayed here this year.

Combined with an increase in holiday accommodation this year (anecdotally), I confidently predict there will be an oversupply of British holiday accommodation next year, and prices will tumble.

 

[Kite159]

Most sensible people could have predicted prices will raise and "gambled" on booking hotels which have free cancellation back in the winter time. Knowing that if they change their mind or find somewhere better they can cancel to get the money back

 

[johntea]

I’ve just managed to book 5 days in London in early June for just over £150, so obviously people aren’t planning on spending their summer there quite yet

I then remembered the ECML works but luckily the weekend I’m travelling isn’t affected

 

[Butts]

It's literally not at all about who owes who what. It's about people being reasonable (and that applies to both sides), and that if the price is too high (regardless of why it is) you simply don't take them up on it - it's an invitation to treat, you don't have to take it. If that causes them to get less income, they'll soon change it.

A lot of people speak as if a holiday is an entitlement, it's not, it's a business transaction. Hotels offer their rooms at £X. If you're willing to pay £X-1, no deal.

Won't work with a chain, but you might find with independent hotels that if you phone them and have a chat they might be willing to knock a bit off, or perhaps give you a free breakfast or something to sweeten the deal.

Are The Hotels still benefitting from a 5% VAT rate or has that ended.

Cue trouser 15% of the bill with no effort whatsoever

 

[Kite159]

Are The Hotels still benefitting from a 5% VAT rate or has that ended.

Cue trouser 15% of the bill with no effort whatsoever

Still 5% until the end of September then 12.5% until next March

 

[Butts]

Still 5% until the end of September then 12.5% until next March

I think a lot of people have forgotten about this "cash cow" for the Industry.