Is the "school run" a uniquely British phenomenon? And, if so, what should we be doing about it?

[Bletchleyite]

I get that there is a lot of "sticker shock" about the price and the GSD is certainly a premium product. But the situation is getting better, I think. The Decathlon R500E is the standard cheap Ternalike and that's £2,700; cheap new cars start at £15k (a Dacia Spring or Citroen C3). The big bike manufacturers like Trek and Specialized are starting to move into the space too.

The problem is that there isn't a large used market - people tend to buy them and keep them. Unlike cars, where there's an endless supply of perfectly good used small cars at that £5-6K price point.

A lot of the potential for this sort of bike is replacing the second car - £2,700 for something the kids will love, vs the hassle and running expense of a used car.

Limited potential, I'd say. They are great bikes, but they aren't as useful as a car unless you're in the niche of living in a very anti-car, pro-cycling city (a true example of which I'm struggling to find in the UK - Oxford and Cambridge sort of nod at it but not very well). But I'd agree people are more likely to replace a second car with one than a first car.

And I don't know anyone who's bought a GSD (or similar) and regretted it. Even though I don't do that particular school run any more, one of the parents who does now regularly borrows our GSD because his kid loves it so much.

Even when it's minus one and tipping it down? I like cycling but not in winter, particularly not in ice.

One of the many good things about the GSD is that it really is built like a tank. I've never felt at all unsafe on it even despite a school run along twisty and occasionally fast rural roads.

I don't know how people ride skinny wheeled road bikes on bad quality British roads without having a heart attack every time they see a pothole (though I do note increased popularity of gravel bikes, which look like road bikes and thus are "cool" but tend to have 700x38 tyres instead of the much skinnier ones on actual road bikes), but in terms of the bike's handling most hybrids are as stable as each other, to be honest. The thing to fear is being killed by an errant vehicle, and the only thing that protects you against that is the steel box around the outside of a car, so I wouldn't agree with this. I am really not sure I would cycle kids to school on 60mph* country lanes - too many accidents. I would do it in a Dutch city, or where segregation is provided (even not-very-good segregation** like say the A413 from Winslow to Buckingham).

* I personally think 40mph or even 30mph should be the default NSL on any road without a marked centreline, which would help that a fair bit, though. Almost no such roads are actually suitable for 60, though I must admit that 60 along single track Wrynose Bottom in the Lakes (where you have several miles of clear view of oncoming traffic and of any pedestrians etc) is a unique experience.

** Basically slightly widened the pavement and made it a shared path. But at least it exists unlike the A421 which has no pedestrian/cycle provision at all.

 

[thejuggler]

Its a multitude of reasons, the biggest being increase in car ownership due to many households now having both parents working. We also now have the ability to choose the school. The increase in car ownership means its possible to choose a school further away as transport is available.

When I started primary school a neighbour gave me a lift. When I was older I walked with my mates, it was about half a mile and we all lived on three streets so we picked each other up along the way.

Ironically it was allocated the closest school for me to attend, yet there was another school at the end of my street and I walked past another on my way to school. I had friends across the street who went to a different primary school and ones five doors away went to another, that's how close we were to the boundaries.

When I started secondary the distance increased to three quarters of a mile. I walked for a few years, then from about 13 cycled which meant I could go home for lunch as we had a 75 minute break. This was because dad used the car for work.

Compare that to my daughter who has just left school. Local primary is C of E controlled which we didn't want, nearest academy primary was a basket case school (now improved) so she went to the school her pre school nursery was attached to, which is about 1.5 miles from home. My wife dropped her off as her office was just up the road and I picked up as I finished work earlier than my wife.

She had two years of very poor education at that school and by the end of year 5 we had had enough so she was taken out of that school and moved to a primary 5 miles away. She then moved to the attached secondary and used the school bus for a couple of years until covid struck. For the least 3 years of her school I was doing the drop off because it worked.

I'm afraid the genie is out of the bottle and school run is now part of life. I'm just happy I'm out of it!

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Even when it's minus one and tipping it down? I like cycling but not in winter, particularly not in ice.

but in terms of the bike's handling most hybrids are as stable as each other

I think you might be pleasantly surprised if you ever try a GSD!

The handling is very different. It's pretty low-slung (20in wheels), the tyres are fat (and I mean fat fat - they're about the same width as those on my gravel bike), and there's front suspension. The result is that it feels incredibly stable. I tried a couple of other child-carrying bikes beforehand - a Circe Morpheus and a kid-friendly tandem - and the GSD is leagues ahead.

As for the weather… I find this hard to explain because I don't really understand it myself, but cycling in the rain on an electric bike is much less horrible than on an acoustic one. I'm generally an absolute wuss at the first sight of a grey cloud, but on the GSD it's absolutely fine (and the kids don't notice, we have a rain cover for the back anyway). I'm sure there's a reason for that but I have no idea what that is!

 

[alex397]

Making cycling much safer could potentially make some inroads, particularly for junior age up. Remember the Netherlands is fairly low density too.

Yes that could certainly help. Though I reckon it wouldn’t help much in hilly areas.

The cycling infrastructure in the UK (well, at least in my area of east Kent) is either non-existent or poor.
When I visit many other European countries, when looking at public transport and cycling infrastructure, they tend to be years (or decades) ahead of us! I can’t help but feel jealous of some of the infrastructure I see there. Segregated cycle lanes, including in rural areas, would get lots more people cycling. It might not be as easy in some areas of the UK, but I think there’s plenty of places it can be done.

The A28 near Thanet is an example of a segregated cycle path… built in the 1930s! Of course, it’s not well maintained - lots of overgrowing vegetation, big cracks and litter/flytipping. Although arguably even if it was well maintained I can’t imagine it being hugely popular as there’s not much around that area. But it’s the sort of thing we could have a lot more in other areas.

Gone off on a bit of a tangent there, but it’s frustrating seeing superb infrastructure (both cycling and public transport) in other countries and seeing the UK being well behind. We wouldn’t get rid of cars on school runs but we could certainly reduce it a lot more.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think you might be pleasantly surprised if you ever try a GSD!

The handling is very different. It's pretty low-slung (20in wheels), the tyres are fat (and I mean fat fat - they're about the same width as those on my gravel bike), and there's front suspension. The result is that it feels incredibly stable. I tried a couple of other child-carrying bikes beforehand - a Circe Morpheus and a kid-friendly tandem - and the GSD is leagues ahead.

As for the weather… I find this hard to explain because I don't really understand it myself, but cycling in the rain on an electric bike is much less horrible than on an acoustic one. I'm generally an absolute wuss at the first sight of a grey cloud, but on the GSD it's absolutely fine (and the kids don't notice, we have a rain cover for the back anyway). I'm sure there's a reason for that but I have no idea what that is!

I love the term "acoustic bike"

It might I suppose be that if you're cycling hard and thus breathing heavily you get a gobful of rain with every breath? I haven't really experienced it, though, I got my e-bike (a £1500ish Decathlon hybrid so at the cheap end, though Decathlon bikes are generally much better than the price implies) a few months ago and haven't really ridden it in the rain yet (the South East isn't that rainy anyway to be fair, suspect if I lived in Manchester I'd have had plenty of tries!)

Out of interest is the GSD very heavily assisted (like say a Lime bike) or is it more like a lot of other ones where it is fairly transparent and just feels a bit easier? That would give two very different experiences. I guess from what you're saying it might almost feel like a low powered motorcycle rather than an e-bike?

Yes that could certainly help. Though I reckon it wouldn’t help much in hilly areas.

E-bikes remove hills - that's basically what they're for! They allow a Dutch style cycling experience somewhere like Milton Keynes (where there is near full segregation, but it's also surprisingly hilly, particularly where the Redways go over and under the roads).

I'll also give my usual plug for Schwalbe Marathon Plus tyres - fit them and you won't get punctures. Makes the cycling experience so much better.

When I visit many other European countries, when looking at public transport and cycling infrastructure, they tend to be years (or decades) ahead of us! I can’t help but feel jealous of some of the infrastructure I see there. Segregated cycle lanes, including in rural areas, would get lots more people cycling. It might not be as easy in some areas of the UK, but I think there’s plenty of places it can be done.

I think it could be done in most urban areas provided there's a willingness to take road space away from cars.

The A28 near Thanet is an example of a segregated cycle path… built in the 1930s! Of course, it’s not well maintained - lots of overgrowing vegetation, big cracks and litter/flytipping. Although arguably even if it was well maintained I can’t imagine it being hugely popular as there’s not much around that area. But it’s the sort of thing we could have a lot more in other areas.

Gone off on a bit of a tangent there, but it’s frustrating seeing superb infrastructure (both cycling and public transport) in other countries and seeing the UK being well behind. We wouldn’t get rid of cars on school runs but we could certainly reduce it a lot more.

Growing up in West Lancashire there's Dutch style segregation on many main roads - I was quite shocked as my horizons broadened and I found that wasn't standard everywhere. While people don't use it that way, the A59 around Aughton has the full Dutch setup - a pavement *and* a separate 1.5 to 2m wide cycle lane in both directions - aside from the lack of junction priority (and a need to cut the trees) near enough gold standard. Obviously that isn't even remotely universal, but it does seem far more main roads in West Lancs at least have pavements (on which low speed cycling would be tolerated, particularly by children) whereas down South almost none do.

Google Streetview of an example: https://www.google.com/maps/@53.5471769,-2.91752,3a,75y,178.9h,88.98t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sDBdr0XLmz_bipAxd6udpMQ!2e0!6shttps://streetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com/v1/thumbnail?cb_client=maps_sv.tactile&w=900&h=600&pitch=1.015521277164737&panoid=DBdr0XLmz_bipAxd6udpMQ&yaw=178.9036931645367!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205410&entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MDkwMi4xIKXMDSoASAFQAw==

 

[cactustwirly]

Schools could provide properly secure storage, of course. And insurance isn't expensive, at which point it getting nicked ceases to really be your problem aside from the inconvenience, provided you use a good lock and actually do lock it up.

Though it doesn't help that there are so many stupid designs of cycle storage out there - in particular bolted-down Sheffield stands which can simply be unbolted (yes, you, WMT).

The insurance has so many conditions and get outs it's not very practical for a child.
My policy was almost £100 which is a lot

 

[Pugwash]

Part of the problem is parents being able to "choose" their child' school, rather than being allocated the nearest school.

This leads to lots of children going to school further away than is necessary.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Out of interest is the GSD very heavily assisted (like say a Lime bike) or is it more like a lot of other ones where it is fairly transparent and just feels a bit easier? That would give two very different experiences. I guess from what you're saying it might almost feel like a low powered motorcycle rather than an e-bike?

It's a Bosch Cargo Line motor which I believe has a bit more grunt than the average e-bike. When you're on the lower settings it feels like a gentle hand on your back - like you say, "just feels a bit easier" - but on the upper power settings it does scoot you along pretty effectively. Certainly I would put it in the top power mode (Turbo) up the steepest hill when I had two kids on the back, and I could get up there without breaking sweat.

 

[Crithylum]

So much this. London is slowly getting it right but many places aren't (looking at you, Oxford).

I would say it varies from somewhat quickly getting it right, to not even caring, from borough to borough

 

[Bikeman78]

Plus now 'spare seat' coaches seemingly need to comply with PSVAR which adds cost to the contract to provide the service and that extra cost must be met pretty much solely by those buying the spare seat (if the spare seat isn't sold, the bus doesn't need to comply with PSVAR).

There can't be many non compliant buses left. Low floor Dennis Darts have been around for 25 years and most have gone for scrap.

 

[En]

Yellow cap band traffic wardens with proper enforcement powers were abolished decades ago. Civil enforcement officers can only deal with a limited range of strictly defined offences which do not include things like obstruction.

but PCSOs can be authorised for an equivalent set of powers , which is why some PCSOs used ot have 'Traffic' markings on their uniforms, Badges and PPE to show they had TW powers

 

[Ianigsy]

Part of the problem is parents being able to "choose" their child' school, rather than being allocated the nearest school.

This leads to lots of children going to school further away than is necessary.

I have friends who moved to Cambridge nearly a year ago and were able to place their primary age children in the local village primary, but their secondary age son was allocated a school on the other side of a new city with a 90 minute journey each way.

You would still need to bus some children around as long as people want a particular religious affiliation for their child’s education. A colleague with a child in a Catholic secondary school on the opposite side of Leeds recently tried to move nearer the school but couldn’t sell their home for what they needed to be able to buy in that area, so they’ve postponed the move for a couple of years until their daughter moves up as well.

 

[PeterC]

but PCSOs can be authorised for an equivalent set of powers , which is why some PCSOs used ot have 'Traffic' markings on their uniforms, Badges and PPE to show they had TW powers

I was replying to a post that explicitly referred to "traffic wardens" by which people these days usually mean civil enforcement officers. There is a common misapprehension that CEOs can deal with offences such as obstruction and, outside London, pavement parking.

Police forces are not resourced to routinely send officers, warranted or otherwise, to deal with traffic outside schools.

 

[Magdalia]

I have friends who moved to Cambridge nearly a year ago and were able to place their primary age children in the local village primary, but their secondary age son was allocated a school on the other side of a new city with a 90 minute journey each way.

I have deliberately avoided commenting on this so far because education for 11-16s and 16-18s in the Cambridge area is so unusual. This anecdote doesn't surprise me at all.

There is under-provision of education in the state sector for 11-16s in Cambridge itself, and a large number of Village Colleges, the oldest of which were established almost 100 years ago. For 11-16s there is a net outflow of students from the urban area to the villages, especially as the Village Colleges generally have better reputations than the schools in the urban area that started life as secondary moderns. Academic specialisation at schools for 11-16s has also contributed to students making longer journeys.

The reverse then happens at 16-18, with students travelling long distances into Cambridge to the two big 6th form colleges, which trace their history back to the County High Schools. There is also a huge amount of student travel to and from the Cambridge Regional College.

Cambridge also has a thriving private sector, with the Leys and the Perse at its apex, but lots of others too.

Take all these together and the school run is the biggest single contributor to traffic congestion in Cambridge.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Here in the USA they all get on those famous yellow buses. I never see parents taking kids to school in the car. When I was group, first it was my bicycle then two buses to get to my grammar school. School runs definitely came well after my time and seem fairly unique to the UK.

 

[E27007]

Its a multitude of reasons, the biggest being increase in car ownership due to many households now having both parents working. We also now have the ability to choose the school. The increase in car ownership means its possible to choose a school further away as transport is available.

When I started primary school a neighbour gave me a lift. When I was older I walked with my mates, it was about half a mile and we all lived on three streets so we picked each other up along the way.

Ironically it was allocated the closest school for me to attend, yet there was another school at the end of my street and I walked past another on my way to school. I had friends across the street who went to a different primary school and ones five doors away went to another, that's how close we were to the boundaries.

When I started secondary the distance increased to three quarters of a mile. I walked for a few years, then from about 13 cycled which meant I could go home for lunch as we had a 75 minute break. This was because dad used the car for work.

Compare that to my daughter who has just left school. Local primary is C of E controlled which we didn't want, nearest academy primary was a basket case school (now improved) so she went to the school her pre school nursery was attached to, which is about 1.5 miles from home. My wife dropped her off as her office was just up the road and I picked up as I finished work earlier than my wife.

She had two years of very poor education at that school and by the end of year 5 we had had enough so she was taken out of that school and moved to a primary 5 miles away. She then moved to the attached secondary and used the school bus for a couple of years until covid struck. For the least 3 years of her school I was doing the drop off because it worked.

I'm afraid the genie is out of the bottle and school run is now part of life. I'm just happy I'm out of it!

In the 1960s we would walk to junior school unaccompanied , the catchment area of each junior school in the town was about 900 yards in radius , parents of infants would accompany their children. There was a busy road to cross, a police constable would be on duty to stop the traffic for groups of children and pedestrians to cross safely. Traffic was much less back than,today parents are too worried of their children being in a traffic accident to let them walk to school, perhaps that is the reason for the school car run, too much traffic for children to be considered "safe" when they walk to school.
I think I am describing of an unwanted aspect of the general freedom granted by the mass ownership of the car, the aspect is the restriction on the activities of children, children who are denied the same freedom which I enjoyed, the freedom to explore, walk, ride bicycles etc due to fears for their safety

 

[Bikeman78]

In the 1960s we would walk to junior school unaccompanied , the catchment area of each junior school in the town was about 900 yards in radius , parents of infants would accompany their children. There was a busy road to cross, a police constable would be on duty to stop the traffic for groups of children and pedestrians to cross safely. Traffic was much less back than,today parents are too worried of their children being in a traffic accident to let them walk to school, perhaps that is the reason for the school car run, too much traffic for children to be considered "safe" when they walk to school.
I think I am describing of an unwanted aspect of the general freedom granted by the mass ownership of the car, the aspect is the restriction on the activities of children, children who are denied the same freedom which I enjoyed, the freedom to explore, walk, ride bicycles etc due to fears for their safety

Where has this perception come from that it's not safe? I have walked and cycled all my life, and I'm still here. I've hurtled up and down Newport road on a bike for 25 years. Lots of people think I am mad. And yet here I am. Nothing is totally safe. Ironically, the "it's not safe" brigade are probably the same people that think it's okay to park on the pavement outside the school.

 

[Krokodil]

Last time I was involved with this (a while ago now) children were only entitled to free transport if they live over 3 miles from school (2 miles for under 8's) - this dates from the 1944 Education Act, and I'm not sure if it's changed since (and may now be different in the devolved countries.)

This also applies only when child is going to their nearest / catchment school (or further away if they can't be accommodated at that school) - the 'parental choice' from the 80s was on the basis that parents are responsible for travel arrangements and / costs.

I believe that the same rules are still in force. The only difference I am aware of is that in Wales the "nearest" school is the one of whichever language medium the parents want. So you can reject a closer Welsh-speaking school in favour of the nearest English-speaking one and it doesn't affect your right to transport.

Even when it's minus one and tipping it down? I like cycling but not in winter, particularly not in ice.

All the times when I look outside and groan at the weather, I've never felt inclined to purchase a new car. In practice I rarely get wet anyway. Here in coastal Wales Wikipedia says that we get 147 rainy days per year. But the definition of a "rainy day" is just 1mm or above. So it might be drizzling overnight or there might be a passing shower while I'm at work anyway. Rain barely features.

I think that I can only remember two days of slippery conditions in five years here. All the main roads are gritted and the village are very quick to use the council salt bins too. The only issue is the housing estate at the bottom of the hill which isn't on a route and lacks salt bins.

There can't be many non compliant buses left. Low floor Dennis Darts have been around for 25 years and most have gone for scrap.

Most school transport around here doesn't use buses any more. Coaches are used so you'd need a completely different vehicle to turn it into a public route.

There is a common misapprehension that CEOs can deal with offences such as obstruction and, outside London, pavement parking.

It would be a start if they enforced the things they can enforce - double yellow lines etc.

Here in the USA they all get on those famous yellow buses. I never see parents taking kids to school in the car. When I was group, first it was my bicycle then two buses to get to my grammar school. School runs definitely came well after my time and seem fairly unique to the UK.

Are they quite so universal these days? Arizona State University here claim that 75% of kids go by car. Sprawling and winding suburbs are increasingly uneconomic for the buses to serve. I've certainly seen plenty of American schools with long lines of cars out of the entrance.

Traffic Congestion Around Schools

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[PeterC]

In the 1960s we would walk to junior school unaccompanied , the catchment area of each junior school in the town was about 900 yards in radius , parents of infants would accompany their children. There was a busy road to cross, a police constable would be on duty to stop the traffic for groups of children and pedestrians to cross safely. Traffic was much less back than,today parents are too worried of their children being in a traffic accident to let them walk to school, perhaps that is the reason for the school car run, too much traffic for children to be considered "safe" when they walk to school.
I think I am describing of an unwanted aspect of the general freedom granted by the mass ownership of the car, the aspect is the restriction on the activities of children, children who are denied the same freedom which I enjoyed, the freedom to explore, walk, ride bicycles etc due to fears for their safety

I don't know about other areas but in outer London in the 60s being taken to junior ir secondary school by your parents would have been a source of embarrassment.

There was a crossing patrol for children who had to cross the busy road at the back of our school.

 

[Bikeman78]

Most school transport around here doesn't use buses any more. Coaches are used so you'd need a completely different vehicle to turn it into a public route.

Why not? And I don't understand what you mean about turning it in to a public route.

 

[Krokodil]

Why not? And I don't understand what you mean about turning it in to a public route.

Probably because the vehicle owners can get more use out of them if they can also be used for school trips and for OAP tours. Can't really do that with a bus.

And the reference to "public route" was because the discussion talked about accommodating the general public in spare seats to improve the economics.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Most school transport around here uses old double decker buses. I can't imagine school routes being very popular with normal passengers, though, due to the typical high level of antisocial behaviour on such routes.

(Having said that I recently used an X6 from MK to Buckingham which was mostly full of schoolkids from one of the private schools, and their behaviour was exemplary, and they spoke incredibly politely to the driver - almost cringeworthily so)

 

[Krokodil]

(Having said that I recently used an X6 from MK to Buckingham which was mostly full of schoolkids from one of the private schools, and their behaviour was exemplary, and they spoke incredibly politely to the driver - almost cringeworthily so)

I've certainly noticed on trains that the private school kids are impreccably behaved. My colleagues and I have had to deal with some awful behaviour from the state school kids (sometimes involving BTP).

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Are they quite so universal these days? Arizona State University here claim that 75% of kids go by car. Sprawling and winding suburbs are increasingly uneconomic for the buses to serve. I've certainly seen plenty of American schools with long lines of cars out of the entrance.

I did not know that. They are certainly pretty universal here in Georgia and also when my daughter went to school in Missouri.

 

[E27007]

In the Netherlands a very high proportion of children cycle to school. In the US huge numbers are driven and a lot of six formers will drive themselves to school. I was looking at some research today which suggests people stopped allowing their primary school age children to walk to school in the 1980s as they no longer allowed them to cross busy roads by themselves. I remember in the late 1970s a brother of a girl I knew being knocked down and seriously injured on his first day of being allowed to go to primary school on his own, probably about 8. His sister then being at secondary school.

As post-WW2 Holland enjoyed increased prosperity and car ownership grew, children suffered in the form of increasing deaths from traffic accidents.
"Stop de Kindermoord" "Stop Murdering Children " was their public campaign for the safety and accident prevention where urban areas were engineered for safety by segregating and removing conflict between cars, pedestrians and cyclists.

 

[The exile]

As post-WW2 Holland enjoyed increased prosperity and car ownership grew, children suffered in the form of increasing deaths from traffic accidents.
"Stop de Kindermoord" "Stop Murdering Children " was their public campaign for the safety and accident prevention where urban areas were engineered for safety by segregating and removing conflict between cars, pedestrians and cyclists.

Although interestingly, isn’t it also the Netherlands where the “shared space” idea for urban roads also took off (albeit much later)?

 

[E27007]

Where has this perception come from that it's not safe? I have walked and cycled all my life, and I'm still here. I've hurtled up and down Newport road on a bike for 25 years. Lots of people think I am mad. And yet here I am. Nothing is totally safe. Ironically, the "it's not safe" brigade are probably the same people that think it's okay to park on the pavement outside the school.

I cycle too, we both know cycling is unfortunately perceived as " dangerous" by non-cyclists. Where did this perception arise, perhaps it began in the when the public abandoned their trusty bicycles for cars as mass car ownership grew in the early 1960s, my Father was such a cyclist, he rode a traditional heavy-duty Raleigh Roadster with a 3-speed Sturmey-Archer dynohub from home to work and return, his trusty Raleigh was left to rust in peace when he acquired a driving licence and a Ford Pop, the beginning of cycling undergoing a change from an unremarkable activity to only practised by eccentrics with a death-wish.

 

[RT4038]

There can't be many non compliant buses left. Low floor Dennis Darts have been around for 25 years and most have gone for scrap.

There are lots of non-compliant coaches, and many school buses are operated by these. If they are non-compliant, they cannot be used by any passenger paying a separate fare, which includes 'spare seats' sold by the Local Authority.

Most school transport around here uses old double decker buses. I can't imagine school routes being very popular with normal passengers, though, due to the typical high level of antisocial behaviour on such routes.

It doesn't have to be 'normal passengers' - a school child paying (by whatever means) requires a compliant vehicle to be operated.

 

[Bikeman78]

Probably because the vehicle owners can get more use out of them if they can also be used for school trips and for OAP tours. Can't really do that with a bus.

And the reference to "public route" was because the discussion talked about accommodating the general public in spare seats to improve the economics.

I think some confusion has crept in. The spare seats were mentioned in post #12. I don't think the suggestion was that the spare seats would be sold to the public.

On that subject though, school buses operated by Cardiff Bus were registered as a normal bus. In theory, anyone could get on them if the bus happened to be going where they wanted to travel. In both Cardiff and Glasgow, school buses were usually booked for older vehicles (Volvo Ailsas in the early 2000s) tied in with rush hour workings. That works better in the afternoon than the morning because the two flows clash more in the morning. I've no idea if any of the above still applies. I've rather lost touch with the bus operation.

 

[JamesT]

Although interestingly, isn’t it also the Netherlands where the “shared space” idea for urban roads also took off (albeit much later)?

The usual way this happens is that the Dutch will implement things like shared space only in specific circumstances. e.g. traffic volume below a certain level. We then try to shoehorn it into spaces where it's very much not appropriate and wonder why it doesn't work.