Is there a minimum staffing level at ticket barriers?

[andy33gmail]

Seems that ticket barriers have sadly becoming more or less ubiquitous at medium and large stations.

I’m curious as to whether people here know if there are minimum staffing levels / maximum footfall permitted.

A couple of times I’ve been in a situation where it felt unsafe. The most recent was at Kings Cross, where a full 12 carriage train landed, and only one semi-motivated member of staff was at the gates.

This meant that the crowd built up behind, and I found myself all the way to the right with a ticket issue (using an Inter-rail pass) whilst the staff member was about a dozen barriers to the left

Is it likely they were breaking rules, or are the rules overly flexible? Presumably there comes a point where it would become permissible to hit the red emergency release at the station they’ve completely abandoned?

 

[trainmania100]

Lewes typically only has one staff member at the main gate line in the upstairs building. The car park gate line is almost always unstaffed from my experience.

 

[saismee]

I’m curious as to whether people here know if there are minimum staffing levels / maximum footfall permitted.

I don't know the exact rules or numbers, but I believe it is supposed to be a minimum of 2 at most decently sized stations. This goes out the window when understaffed, though.

A couple of times I’ve been in a situation where it felt unsafe. The most recent was at Kings Cross, where a full 12 carriage train landed, and only one semi-motivated member of staff was at the gates.

This meant that the crowd built up behind, and I found myself all the way to the right with a ticket issue (using an Inter-rail pass) whilst the staff member was about a dozen barriers to the left

Crowds build up a LOT, at some stations they have to build up on staircases which I agree seems unsafe. Ticket gate operator is the lowest paid job in the rail industry and it's no surprise that the operator wasn't very motivated.

Is it likely they were breaking rules, or are the rules overly flexible?

Second option.

Presumably there comes a point where it would become permissible to hit the red emergency release at the station they’ve completely abandoned?

Only in an actual emergency, such as a fire (which I think opens them automatically?) or similar. Overcrowding isn't actually an emergency. The emergency release can actually trap people as the gates open towards the outside area, even if a barrier is set to open inwards.

 

[bleeder4]

I've had one member of staff at Edinburgh Waverley before, when getting off an Avanti WC service from Birmingham. Same situation as you, in that I was on the far left and it wasn't accepting my ticket, yet the sole member of staff was on the far right with a crowd of people between me and there.

 

[andy33gmail]

Only in an actual emergency, such as a fire (which I think opens them automatically?) or similar. Overcrowding isn't actually an emergency. The emergency release can actually trap people as the gates open towards the outside area, even if a barrier is set to open inwards.

Presumably a reasonable belief* a crowd crush was about to occur would be? Which to be clear was not the case in the situation I was in

It does worry me somewhat that we’ll eventually have a Liverpool like situation as more and more corners are cut. Hopefully either I’m wrong or things will be tightened up first

*as in one I could stand by if questioned by police

 

[saismee]

Presumably a reasonable belief* a crowd crush was about to occur would be? Which to be clear was not the case in the situation I was in

Yes I would consider that to be an emergency as well, provided it is justifiably believed.

 

[Annetts key]

My understanding is that the minimum per entrance or per separate group of gates/barriers is two staff. At least at the stations in my area (GWR).

As well as the customer / passenger issue including disabled people needing help, other passengers needing help and not all passengers have tickets or passes that work in the machines, there is also the issue of staff safety. If a passenger or other member of the public starts getting angry, you, as a member of staff may want a witness or your colleague may need to call for assistance.

Unfortunately we live in a world where there are some unpleasant people around. And the employer should and does have a duty of care to the people they employ.

 

[saismee]

As well as the customer / passenger issue including disabled people needing help, other passengers needing help

Gateline staff don't handle most of this stuff, their job is to operate the gates and answer questions. 9 times out of 10 it's better to ask platform staff for non-gate assistance rather than gateline staff (beyond simple questions).
The wide gate is usually the priority for the person operating the gates, so it will be people with disabilities, families, cyclists who will have gate issues solved first. It really depends on the layout of the station.

 

[Siemens Trains]

If I experience a persistent 'seek assistance' message at barriers where staff are absent or uninterested I usually just tailgate through the wider lanes which have more time available. Or push hard enough on the barrier to open it and set off an alarm.

But you need to be confident that your ticket is valid in case gateline staff miraculously appear from nowhere!

 

[saismee]

If I experience a persistent 'seek assistance' message at barriers where staff are absent or uninterested I usually just tailgate through the wider lanes which have more time available. Or push hard enough on the barrier to open it and set off an alarm.

But you need to be confident that your ticket is valid in case gateline staff miraculously appear from nowhere!

Yeah... don't do that. It rightfully pisses off the gateline staff because it can damage the barriers. You are automatically in the wrong if you damage the barriers because you didn't ask them for assistance. If they are fully absent with the gates closed, it is actually a safety hazard and it should be reported - when there is only one member of staff and they go on break, they should be setting the barriers to open.

If you appear on CCTV pushing through or sneaking through barriers multiple times, I would expect you to be barred from the station sooner or later.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Yeah... don't do that. It rightfully pisses off the gateline staff because it can damage the barriers. You are automatically in the wrong if you damage the barriers because you didn't ask them for assistance. If they are fully absent with the gates closed, it is actually a safety hazard and it should be reported - when there is only one member of staff and they go on break, they should be setting the barriers to open.

If you appear on CCTV pushing through or sneaking through barriers multiple times, I would expect you to be barred from the station sooner or later.

Precisely. Bearing in mind that passing through a barrier other than in a ‘proper manner’ is a Bylaw offence.

 

[Siemens Trains]

Yeah... don't do that. It rightfully pisses off the gateline staff because it can damage the barriers. You are automatically in the wrong if you damage the barriers because you didn't ask them for assistance. If they are fully absent with the gates closed, it is actually a safety hazard and it should be reported - when there is only one member of staff and they go on break, they should be setting the barriers to open.

If you appear on CCTV pushing through or sneaking through barriers multiple times, I would expect you to be barred from the station sooner or later.

Very true, but from a normal business perspective you'd think the way to avoid this is to either provide enough gateline staff to cope or just open the barriers. If staff are monitoring CCTV properly, ineffective gateline support would surely be identified as a bigger concern.

 

[saismee]

Very true, but from a normal business perspective you'd think the way to avoid this is to either provide enough gateline staff to cope or just open the barriers. If staff are monitoring CCTV properly, ineffective gateline support would surely be identified as a bigger concern.

It's more likely that someone reports the barriers being forced open and the CCTV is retrieved after.
Also, the gateline staff that "magically appear" may actually be revenue staff - they don't have anything to do with operating the gates and aren't able to let people through. They appear because you've forced the gates and they are going to question it.

 

[Annetts key]

Gateline staff don't handle most of this stuff, their job is to operate the gates and answer questions. 9 times out of 10 it's better to ask platform staff for non-gate assistance rather than gateline staff (beyond simple questions).
The wide gate is usually the priority for the person operating the gates, so it will be people with disabilities, families, cyclists who will have gate issues solved first. It really depends on the layout of the station.

I was only meaning people needing help going through the gates/barriers. Not assistance with other matters.

 

[scrapy]

The minimum number required will have been risk assessed on an hour by hour, day by day basis for weekdays and Saturdays and Sundays on an individual basis for that station. So it will vary. What suits Leeds at rush hour for example will be very different to Glossop mid evening.

 

[DelW]

My understanding is that the minimum per entrance or per separate group of gates/barriers is two staff. At least at the stations in my area (GWR).

As well as the customer / passenger issue including disabled people needing help, other passengers needing help and not all passengers have tickets or passes that work in the machines, there is also the issue of staff safety. If a passenger or other member of the public starts getting angry, you, as a member of staff may want a witness or your colleague may need to call for assistance.

I've never ever seen more than one gateline attendant at my local station (SWR) since the gates were installed about 6 years ago. There are three normal gates, one wide gate, and a remote-controlled entrance on the opposite platform.

Though there's (at least) a dispatcher and a ticket clerk on the station as well through much of the day.

 

[MrToad]

At Havant there is often no one on the gates on Platform 1 (London side) and if your ticket does not open the gate they expect you to traipse all the way over to Platform 2 and exit there, then cross back over using the public footbridge. Quite often on matchdays, a crush can build up on the platform as there are only about 2-3 gates. If your ticket does not open the gate, it can be quite difficult pushing back through the crowd of people trying to leave.

 

[Chriso]

Slough seems to have a ridiculous rule that at least 3 members of staff need to be on the main gate line or they leave a wide gate open. This means 90% of the time the gates are useless.

This may be rubbish though and just an excuse made by staff. Either way it makes a mockery of the whole set up

 

[Brent Goose]

At Havant there is often no one on the gates on Platform 1 (London side) and if your ticket does not open the gate they expect you to traipse all the way over to Platform 2 and exit there, then cross back over using the public footbridge. Quite often on matchdays, a crush can build up on the platform as there are only about 2-3 gates. If your ticket does not open the gate, it can be quite difficult pushing back through the crowd of people trying to leave.

And for a while that footbridge was closed.

From memory there is a barrier help point but presumably that is only accessible from the unticketed side?