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Is there a threat to the present continuing usage of the UK landline phone system?

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JamesT

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So what is BT now proposing to do? This is a very real conundrum for me as I've just received an unsolicited call from BT telling me that my existing landline service is about to come to an end ''as you may have heard'' (I replied I was aware of the general intention). He spent the next ten minutes reading an obvious script about the undoubted benefits that would follow, but none of the drawbacks, and told me he'd ring back in ninety minutes when I'd had a chance to read the info he was emailing me.

An hour later nothing had come through: another 45 minutes and a different person called who said he'd been told I wished to 'sign up' and he was there to guide me through the process. I looked again at my ipad and told him there was nothing there to discuss. He expressed mock surprise, then, ping!, it had come through. I could immediately see it needed a good scrutiny, especially over a 36 month contract and charges that hadn't been explained to me.The latter, excluding VAT, gave no frequency and I assumed quarterly, but was quickly corrected that they were monthly! The call ended seconds later, but now I'm forewarned for when they try the next tack. I should just add that, in part due to my inertia, I have always had a business line that also doubled as a home line, being located in the same building, though the business part ceased years ago. This is why I suspect BT see me as someone who might be intimidated into accepting whatever they propose, which won't be the case.
The deadline may get pushed back a little, but I think BT’s plans remain the same. The existing analogue PSTN provision will be withdrawn in stages across the country. Instead they’ll offer VOIP with a port on the broadband router to connect old handsets.
Other providers will offer something similar as there won’t be an Openreach analogue service to resell.
If you’re disinclined to take BT’s offer, now may be the time to investigate alternatives in the VOIP market.
 
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GusB

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The switch-off of the Public Switched Telephone Network (PSTN) is happening whether we like it or not. Hitherto the changes have taken place mostly in the background at the exchange level and therefore have gone fairly unnoticed.

I have no issue with the rollout of digital voice at all; what I do object to is the fact that this has been implemented without considering how customers' houses are wired. The current mantra is that Openreach won't touch internal wiring, despite the fact that they probably installed much of it in the early "in-phone" days. I documented my own experience fairly early on in this thread and I'm still quite annoyed that they have the gall to charge £150 for moving a master socket that they installed in the first place, but is no longer fit for purpose because it's nowhere near a mains socket! How much are they paying out in daily compensation for faults that are the result of old wiring that they installed?
 

davews

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If you have a fault on your line they will do all that free.. My broadband came via my own extension wiring from the master socket by the front door. Either in there or the line running on the wall outside went nasty leading to broadband dropouts. After a bit of a struggle with BT on the phone they finally sent an Openreach chap who knew his stuff, could see a clear fault on his TDMR which wasn't at their junction box outside. Instantly produced new cable, hole drilled through wall, and new master socket right by the router.
No doubt they will try and move me to 'digital voice' sometime. The main objection with the BT implementation is that you are forced to use their hub rather than your own router if you want to keep your existing landline number.
 

johncrossley

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You can move your phone number to Sipgate for no charge, and then receive all your landline calls on your mobile if you install an app like Linphone, with no ongoing charges.
 

Lucan

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Or just go mobile only. Increasing numbers of people have.
Or go to a different provider. I ditched BT long ago because of their attitude problem and their Indian call centre. I have since been with PO Phones and am currently with UNO.

they have the gall to charge £150 for moving a master socket
I seem to be always moving my master socket around. The job is trivial. An Open Reach wireman once commented to me that as long as it was wired properly they wouldn't care.
 

MotCO

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I have recently moved house and had to have a new line installed. I was given no option but to accept a digital line.
 

najaB

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So what is BT now proposing to do? This is a very real conundrum for me as I've just received an unsolicited call from BT telling me that my existing landline service is about to come to an end ''as you may have heard'' (I replied I was aware of the general intention). He spent the next ten minutes reading an obvious script about the undoubted benefits that would follow, but none of the drawbacks, and told me he'd ring back in ninety minutes when I'd had a chance to read the info he was emailing me.

An hour later nothing had come through: another 45 minutes and a different person called who said he'd been told I wished to 'sign up' and he was there to guide me through the process. I looked again at my ipad and told him there was nothing there to discuss. He expressed mock surprise, then, ping!, it had come through. I could immediately see it needed a good scrutiny, especially over a 36 month contract and charges that hadn't been explained to me.The latter, excluding VAT, gave no frequency and I assumed quarterly, but was quickly corrected that they were monthly! The call ended seconds later, but now I'm forewarned for when they try the next tack. I should just add that, in part due to my inertia, I have always had a business line that also doubled as a home line, being located in the same building, though the business part ceased years ago. This is why I suspect BT see me as someone who might be intimidated into accepting whatever they propose, which won't be the case.
I would view this with extreme suspicion. There should be no need to sign-up for anything, nor should there be a need for a new contract.

It's been a while since I worked for BT but while I was there outbound sales campaigns were very few and far between, and I can't see why they would be running one for what is, essentially, a back-end change. If I was you I would decline their offer and see what happens as BT has a USO requirement to provide phone service, they can't just turn your service off if you are up to date with payments.
 

S&CLER

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So what is BT now proposing to do? This is a very real conundrum for me as I've just received an unsolicited call from BT telling me that my existing landline service is about to come to an end ''as you may have heard'' (I replied I was aware of the general intention). He spent the next ten minutes reading an obvious script about the undoubted benefits that would follow, but none of the drawbacks, and told me he'd ring back in ninety minutes when I'd had a chance to read the info he was emailing me.

An hour later nothing had come through: another 45 minutes and a different person called who said he'd been told I wished to 'sign up' and he was there to guide me through the process. I looked again at my ipad and told him there was nothing there to discuss. He expressed mock surprise, then, ping!, it had come through. I could immediately see it needed a good scrutiny, especially over a 36 month contract and charges that hadn't been explained to me.The latter, excluding VAT, gave no frequency and I assumed quarterly, but was quickly corrected that they were monthly! The call ended seconds later, but now I'm forewarned for when they try the next tack. I should just add that, in part due to my inertia, I have always had a business line that also doubled as a home line, being located in the same building, though the business part ceased years ago. This is why I suspect BT see me as someone who might be intimidated into accepting whatever they propose, which won't be the case.
I am in pretty much your position, but I have chosen to take up the offer, because the monthly direct debit ought to be cheaper than the quarterly bills I am paying now. At 74, I don't do much translation business any more, but still do some as long as it's not urgent (28 jobs invoiced in 34 weeks this year), enough to keep claiming the phone bill as a business expense. I am due to be "ported" to my new provider at 11 a.m. and am keeping my fingers crossed that I've connected the new phone up correctly and that everything will go smoothly. I made it clear that what I wanted was a phone that looked and felt as much like the old landline as possible.
 

Grumbler

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So what is BT now proposing to do? This is a very real conundrum for me as I've just received an unsolicited call from BT telling me that my existing landline service is about to come to an end ''as you may have heard'' (I replied I was aware of the general intention). He spent the next ten minutes reading an obvious script about the undoubted benefits that would follow, but none of the drawbacks, and told me he'd ring back in ninety minutes when I'd had a chance to read the info he was emailing me.

An hour later nothing had come through: another 45 minutes and a different person called who said he'd been told I wished to 'sign up' and he was there to guide me through the process. I looked again at my ipad and told him there was nothing there to discuss. He expressed mock surprise, then, ping!, it had come through. I could immediately see it needed a good scrutiny, especially over a 36 month contract and charges that hadn't been explained to me.The latter, excluding VAT, gave no frequency and I assumed quarterly, but was quickly corrected that they were monthly! The call ended seconds later, but now I'm forewarned for when they try the next tack. I should just add that, in part due to my inertia, I have always had a business line that also doubled as a home line, being located in the same building, though the business part ceased years ago. This is why I suspect BT see me as someone who might be intimidated into accepting whatever they propose, which won't be the case.
Was this call really from BT?
 

S&CLER

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I am in pretty much your position, but I have chosen to take up the offer, because the monthly direct debit ought to be cheaper than the quarterly bills I am paying now. At 74, I don't do much translation business any more, but still do some as long as it's not urgent (28 jobs invoiced in 34 weeks this year), enough to keep claiming the phone bill as a business expense. I am due to be "ported" to my new provider at 11 a.m. and am keeping my fingers crossed that I've connected the new phone up correctly and that everything will go smoothly. I made it clear that what I wanted was a phone that looked and felt as much like the old landline as possible.
The process was fraught, and the porting did not go as planned, so that my email and internet were put out of action, probably because the old Plus Net router would not accept the new system (I had been assured that it would). I have been away for a few weeks and only got it finally sorted out this afternoon when a more technically savvy friend connected up a new BT router. The process of registering the new account, without which the Yealink deskphone won't work, was not easy even for him. Fortunately, the OnePhone package included a deskphone and 5 SIM cards, and a kind neighbour gave me an old Samsung smartphone, so that I was at least able to make and receive calls; as a stopgap, calls to my landline/deskphone number have been diverted to this phone. I think I will keep this facility, as it allows me to use the smartphone as an extension in the living room, while the deskphone lives in the office. I don't propose to use the 5-year old smartphone for anything but calls. Both phones ring simultaneously when someone calls me. Of course the mobile can also receive calls to its own number, which I've only divulged to one person so far. There were times when I wished I had never started the process, but it should be cheaper in the long run.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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The process was fraught, and the porting did not go as planned, so that my email and internet were put out of action, probably because the old Plus Net router would not accept the new system (I had been assured that it would).
Would anyone with the most up-to-date BT router face less of a problem? If a BT customer is over 75 years of age, would they send an engineer free of charge to perform any required upgrading matters? The Halo 3 packages allow for one annual engineer visit.
 

najaB

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If a BT customer is over 75 years of age, would they send an engineer free of charge to perform any required upgrading matters?
They certainly used to where age or infirmity meant that the phone was a lifeline, but that was some time ago so things may well have changed.
 

S&CLER

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Would anyone with the most up-to-date BT router face less of a problem? If a BT customer is over 75 years of age, would they send an engineer free of charge to perform any required upgrading matters? The Halo 3 packages allow for one annual engineer visit.
This was one of the things that was not made clear to me; I was sent a router (which arrived while I was on holiday, so I had to get a taxi out to the sorting office at Wight Moss Lane, Kew on the edge of town to collect it when I got back), and assumed that an engineer was coming on Monday the 26th, as I had understood, in a slot of 1p.m. to 6 p.m. But in fact I was expected to connect the router myself while the engineer activated the line from the cabinet or exchange. I only found this out after a call to BT. It was at this point that I called in the guy whom I rely on for IT support. It was money well spent! Broadband and email were working in no time, once the router was connected, but it was the process of registering the OnePhone account that took ages, even for an IT professional. We agreed that if all landlines are to migrate to VoIP, it needs to be made simpler. What anyone without broadband can do, I can't say; but broadband is almost at the stage of being an indispensable utility like water or electricity already and will no doubt become so very soon.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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No doubt they will try and move me to 'digital voice' sometime. The main objection with the BT implementation is that you are forced to use their hub rather than your own router if you want to keep your existing landline number.
There are still worries amongst the more elderly of the population about "digital voice" and the lack of the emergency service call availability currently available in the analogue system. I recently attended a meeting of elderly retired professional people (I am 77) in which that particular item was one of the two points of discussion and the invited guest from the telecommunications industry seemed more concerned with "the other benefits" that would so accrue and was most uncomfortable to be pressed on that particular matter.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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Juts had power cut on/off for last four days and when you have a digital phone you lose the landline. That's fine if you have a mobile and a good signal which we don't which made things a lot more difficult in communicating we were off in teh first place
 

Harpers Tate

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Juts had power cut on/off for last four days and when you have a digital phone you lose the landline. That's fine if you have a mobile and a good signal which we don't which made things a lot more difficult in communicating we were off in teh first place
If your device has a battery backup (UPS) then a power cut is irrelevant (unless it also takes down the service itself).
 

Nicholas Lewis

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If your device has a battery backup (UPS) then a power cut is irrelevant (unless it also takes down the service itself).
The phone does the BT router doesn't although i don't know if the more modern ones have been equipped with batteries as it must be obvious to BT that this is a potential issue for people in emergency situations.
 

johncrossley

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Obviously if you are in the very rare circumstance that there is no power, and no mobile signal on any of the four networks, and you are really worried about loss of electricity in an emergency, then you could consider a more substantial battery backup. Do such people currently vacate their home if the phone line doesn't work?
 

Greybeard33

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If your device has a battery backup (UPS) then a power cut is irrelevant (unless it also takes down the service itself).
As a minimum you need a battery backup for both the Optical Network Terminal and the internet router. BT does not normally provide either. If you have a cordless phone its base station needs backup as well. A UPS capable of powering all three for several hours is quite a costly bit of kit.
 

JamesT

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As a minimum you need a battery backup for both the Optical Network Terminal and the internet router. BT does not normally provide either. If you have a cordless phone its base station needs backup as well. A UPS capable of powering all three for several hours is quite a costly bit of kit.
Depends on your definition of expensive. I’ve got an older APC 700VA powering my router, network switch, NAS, and PVR. That’s going to be considerably higher power draw than just a router and a phone, but the UPS is reporting it has 50 minutes of runtime.
You can get a new 850VA unit for under £100. If you want longer runtime there are 1600VA for under £200, or https://www.comms-express.com/products/apc-bx2200mi-2200va-back-ups-230v-avr-iec-sockets/ is just over £250 and should give quite a few hours if it’s only handling a few relatively low power devices.
 

najaB

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...and should give quite a few hours if it’s only handling a few relatively low power devices.
That is true, but is highly inefficient as you'd be taking DC in the battery, inverting it to AC and then rectifying it back to DC to power the router/ONT/phone base with losses of as much as 15% at each stage. Much better to get a device like this (a DC battery backup) as long as it has an output of the right voltage to power the requisite equipment.
 

Greybeard33

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That is true, but is highly inefficient as you'd be taking DC in the battery, inverting it to AC and then rectifying it back to DC to power the router/ONT/phone base with losses of as much as 15% at each stage. Much better to get a device like this (a DC battery backup) as long as it has an output of the right voltage to power the requisite equipment.
The linked device has a claimed battery capacity of 98Wh, presumably with a new battery. A BT Smart Hub 2 consumes about 10W and an Openreach ONT about 5W. A DECT base station might typically be another 5W, so say 20W total. After conversion losses of maybe 10% (3.7V battery to 5/9/12V outputs) something like 4.5 hours autonomy - good for a short power cut but not if you are cut off for several days due to storm damage.

Setting up this device would be a nightmare for the average member of the public because of the variety of non standardised DC connectors used by router and phone manufacturers - similar looking ones have differing outer ring and inner pin diameters.
 

najaB

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The linked device has a claimed battery capacity of 98Wh, presumably with a new battery. A BT Smart Hub 2 consumes about 10W and an Openreach ONT about 5W. A DECT base station might typically be another 5W, so say 20W total. After conversion losses of maybe 10% (3.7V battery to 5/9/12V outputs) something like 4.5 hours autonomy - good for a short power cut but not if you are cut off for several days due to storm damage.
I said a device "like this", not "this device". Obviously, for longer outages a larger battery capacity would be required.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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When push comes to shove, it is the telecommunications organisations whose idea this is and as such, they should have to bear the costs of any stated implications caused by the introduction that that they have decided upon, not their customers.
 

jon0844

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As a minimum you need a battery backup for both the Optical Network Terminal and the internet router. BT does not normally provide either. If you have a cordless phone its base station needs backup as well. A UPS capable of powering all three for several hours is quite a costly bit of kit.

Besides the traditional lead acid UPS (many of which are fairly cheap for quite low capacities), there is now a fast growing market of Lithium based ones - which can potentially power lots of things in the event of a power cut - and for quite some time. They're more expensive, but much more versatile - some being chargeable with folding solar panels that you can put in a garden with minimal effort - or even a petrol generator.

I'd personally be inclined to have a UPS for a router/ONT that isn't directly connected and kicks in as soon as the power fails. I'd sooner lose my connection and then switch on the backup power should I need to get online (or make a call) later on. If the power outage is considerable, you're more likely going to need to communicate as time goes on - not in the first few hours (when the UPS will likely have discharged).

Also, for the first few hours, local mobile sites will likely have some sort of backup power (not all, but perhaps a more distant site that can carry voice or text if not mobile data reliably) so saving the power until you need it sounds wise.

Amazon are doing UPS systems for around £50 upwards. My router uses around 20-25W and I doubt the ONT uses much.
 
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